Noz

Pop down to the dyno at any time, and see for yourself :) Bring your car along to Santa Pod, and see for yourself :) Before I respond to your post, let me suggest something regarding the highlighted sections. We're both traders on here, if you're going to question one of my posts, can you keep it respectful please? Let's just keep things technical and in perspective. That kind of rant is for the schoolyard and really doesn't prove or disprove anything, the only one "flaming" is you, I'm afraid. Have a look around the internet for examples of people running 21psi on stock turbos. This is quite funny, because I'm not the only one. Not by a long shot :laugh::laugh: Here's a quick one from my thread here: http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?165369-Running-1-4-bar-%2821psi%29-on-stock-injectors&highlight= At no point have I said that stock turbos run 21 psi to the limit. That is never going to happen, they are tiny. They hit 1.4 bar with ease in the mid range, tailing off to a bar maximum on my car, how else do you think I made 410lbft with just filters and back boxes, or do you think I'm fudging results? How did I hit 110mph in 13.17s with just filters & back boxes on 225/55 tyres with a 2.3s 60ft without running a lot of boost on the stock turbos with Tesco Momentum 99 RON? I've asked you this before on another thread where you basically accuse me of "talking shit", and you didn't answer then. Maybe you can answer it now? Also.... Feel free to come and inspect my car whenever you wish. You can drive it yourself. It will be at Pod most weekends after January 21st, you can take it up the strip. Anyone is welcome to test drive my car if they don't believe all the actual evidence I post. It is a daily-driven development vehicle, specifically for this very purpose. I hope you will take me up on one of my offers. I have no reason to lie. Everything I have done with my car, can be done by anyone. Well, apart from the mapping of course :whistling: If your turbos are only hitting a maximum of 18psi, then I'm afraid that is your issue, and not indicative of the turbos in general. Why crank the gain? It's a pulsewidth-controlled solenoid, you increase the duty cycle to set the peak boost level, the gain controls the the rate at which it hits said peak via feedback. Seriously, if your turbos can only physically produce 18psi, then something is clearly not right. Are you telling me that if you disconnect the actuator lines, they are pegged at 18psi? Here, have some evidence that the issue lies with YOUR turbos or set up: http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=1269 I'm surprised someone that has "fitted many hybrid turbos and know what they can produce" would actually believe that any turbo is simply going to "flatline" at 18psi with no boost regulation. Very surprised. How come this hasn't been investigated and rectified? 18psi = 1.22 bar. People run that all day long on T25-type turbos. I ran 17-18psi on a stock T25 for a year, 22psi on a stock T28 for many months before it gave up. I have never understood why people claim that because something of theirs couldn't do something, then that is the way it has got to be. Of course, this works both ways, too! Just because my car runs a 13.1@110mph with filters, backboxes & boost, doesn't mean the next person's is going to... I don't know why all this is so hard to believe: Stock 1809cc CA18DET: 383bhp & 326lbft at the hubs (circa 420bhp, 233bhp per litre) Stock 3SGTE: Last season, 1.5 bar on a GReddy T78, 12.39s@113mph (approx 370bhp, 185bhp per litre) Built SR20DET in my Pulsar: 1.9 bar on a T28, 12.08s@115mph (approx 350bhp, 175bhp per litre) Stock 3L VG30DETT: 394bhp @ 410lbft, 13.1s@110mph (131 bhp per litre). Nothing special so far, the only thing I'm pushing are the turbos. Slick Pete has seen the Zed in action, pulling consistent 13.1s quarter miles. It is what it is and it does what it does. Nothing more, nothing less :) I have run & tuned so many different vehicles, from Cossies to Fiat Coupes to Rover Turbos. And of course most 90s Nissans. I also know what is possible and what is not. Up the boost on a Rover Turbo, it WILL die. That is FACT, I proved it for myself. Useless cars. People in the UK are too quick to dismiss the figures that our American & Antipodean cousins run that they forget that even if powers are inflated, they still have shown what can be done. Years ago.... This is not the first time I have been called out by an expert in his own particular field, and it won't be the last. Trust me, if I couldn't run 21psi on stock Auto turbos, I sure as Hell wouldn't post on an open forum that I can, not considering all the proof I present to everybody :laugh: Oh, by the way.... SpecialtyZ: 900rwhp with stock head gaskets. Some guy called Russell with 1050-odd rwhp on stock head gaskets. Just extreme examples found on the net. Just because someone supplies something, doesn't mean it's the only way of doing it. There are other factors involved with regards to business. Final point to add: The moment a component fails, I will report about it. I am finding the limits of stock components, just like I have always done. For years. Cheers, Noel :gunsmilie:

Please read the thread and some of my previous posts for some interesting facts for you. Injector duty is fine up to & over 21psi on Auto turbos. Dead ringlands are due to poor mapping. Eggs, stock HGs are fine for big power.

Bumping this, heading over most likely on Monday 7th Jan. Can take a trailer if anyone needs a car transporting anywhere :thumbup:

I have 17x9.5 et38 with 275/40 tyres on the rear and they sit flush.

Yup, just a flat battery :)

Hello!! I must have sold close to a thousand chips for various makes & models. Lots of Turbonoz Nissan chips all over the world. Very cool :biggrin:

It's best to forget about the standard knock sensor, it's fairly useless. With an EBC, the stock safety boost solenoids are redundant although the ECU will still access the knock maps. With a hot-wire MAF system, there isn't any need to compensate for intake air temps (IAT), unlike MAP based Speed-Density systems (eg aftermarket EMS & Cossies) or flap-type AFMs (eg MR2 rev1 & 2). If temp increases, then air density decreases for a constant volume (density = m/V = PM/RT) and the MAF output voltage is lower accordingly. At high altitudes where pressure is lower, density will be decreased for a constant volume of air and vice versa. Ideally, you want to map a MAF-based vehicle in the coldest conditions it will experience at sea-level, as this will provide the greatest mass of air per unit volume which results in the highest load on the engine and highest MAF output voltage. In practice, you take into account the current conditions and extrapolate as best as possible. For information, here is a stock EDM timing map. The highlighted cells are the ones monitored for knock as standard: When the knock sensor sends a signal to the ECU, separate knock maps are accessed (more fuel, less timing) as well as safety boost. Chances are there isn't much point in extending the knock-monitored regions due to false positives from engine noise. When mapping, I suspend all OEM knock monitoring and use an aftermarket unit and my ears. My old CA used to show knock readings in the hundreds using the stock sensor.

I'm game for a meet at some point :)

Leaning out is definitely not an injector duty issue. A 370cc injector flows enough fuel to support circa. 70-75bhp at the limit. Some chips do have suitable programming in this respect, others don't. It's a parameter that any self-respecting mapper or chip tuner should be aware of. I don't think that Zs could get a worse reputation than they already do to be fair, one that is perpetuated by misunderstanding. The fact is, with appropriate tuning you can run 21 psi on stock turbos without leaning out, it's not even a grey area, it's just fact based on injector size, mass flow rate and of course, empirical evidence. It's no different to working within constraints with any other vehicle. I'm not the first to do this by any means, just the first to post about it at length on this forum, I guess. The knowledge has been out there for a long time, which is why threads like these are quite a surprise. I 100% agree that there will be issues with leaning out with some well-known chips (it's best to differentiate between generic "chips" and "remapped ECU"). I would be wary of allowing someone to run 21 psi on my own proven maps, you have to cater for the worst-case scenario which includes user error (95RON fuel, incorrectly-set base timing, upping the boost "just a bit more" etc). But, the Zed is no different to the R32, 200sx, Evo, Cosworth etc. Full remaps & standalone options ARE readily available to the Z community, and have been for years. There really is no logical reason why it's not commonplace already. I guess there could be a more realistic balance portrayed between caution and experimentation, which only comes with a better understanding of why an engine may have gone west in the first place. For years I extolled the virtues of the much-maligned CA18DET. Go on the SXOC and ask what a stock CA is good for and chances are someone will say "Noz ran silly power, over 400bhp with a massive Chinese turbo". The long-held belief before this was that the rods gave up at 350bhp, due to a bent rod happening at this power level and someone stating this as fact. Trouble is, the car was running a 5th injector, it was a fluke it lasted as long as it did. I am very proud of what I did with my old S13 and amazing CA :biggrin: The only thing extreme about running 21 psi is the amount of boost you're pushing through those puny turbos. To be fair, they don't hold 21 psi for very long, at the red line it's down to about a bar with minimal breathing modifications. I've definitely not pushed anything other than the turbos themselves, my main Zed is a daily that needs to be reliable 100% of the time. I would be more than happy to run twin S200s or Holset HX30s on a stock bottom end though. A set of ACL shells and the coolant passages fettled would be all it requires. Delete all the acronyms, remove all the restrictions. Massive intercooler(s), minimal intake pipework (2.5"), exhaust, manifolds, throttle bodies etc. A decent VG will probably run 330-340bhp in an unrestricted state at stock boost levels. All it would take would be two nicely-sized turbos to hit a relatively reliable 85bhp per cylinder with low intake temps. Cast pistons won't be troubled at that. Comparable to a 340bhp 2L, 500+bhp all day long....

Yes, but things have moved on a bit now, so those levels are not really relevant. Every 20yr old turbocharged car should have an AFR gauge, it's the best indication to a typical owner that something is going wrong before it goes really wrong. If you're driving a 300bhp turbocharged car as complex & difficult to work on as the Zed, in this day & age you're a fool not to take the appropriate measures to ensure things don't go awry too easily. This means an AFR gauge and knowing what det sounds like, even on a standard car. Comparing the engines of two similar cars: Everyone speaks of the 2JZ as the Holy Grail of 6 cyl engines, whereas the VG is dismissed with an appalling reputation for reliability. The reason these preconceptions have come about is that with the Supra, there were no options for advanced ECU tuning other than piggybacks. Therefore, everyone had to go standalone (apart from some very clever, very secretive bods in Japan). With this comes big costs and typically necessitates a full setup & bespoke map by someone that knows what they're doing. However, from day one Joe Bloggs could reprogram his Z32 ECU, hence there are some truly dire 'tunes' out there, accompanied by countless melted pistons no doubt. Pistons don't melt because of 17psi from stock turbos. These aren't Rovers. I have removed chips from Z32 ECUs with no rev limit. Or how about a blanket increase of 10° across the entire JDM timing map, which is already too advanced in places for the UK (pre-99 RON days). I have a well-known '555' map which is about 2 mins of adjustment away from the freely-available '555Z' map, and in one essential part, actually worse and verging on dangerous. One day I will post images of all the maps I have acquired over the years :blink: With regards to the mapping above 12psi on the stock ECU, a well-known chip that works with mig tips & 15psi is exactly the same as the stock OEM chip. The fueling map ends at a load value of 88, timing at 96. I've posted about this on another thread. Beyond 14psi, injectors are not at 100% duty. Nowhere near in fact. I posted a log of fueling at 21psi on Auto turbos, filters & backboxes. It is a specific parameter in the ECU programming that causes a lean condition at 1.2-1.3bar and 3200-4800 RPM. You don't need larger injectors for 17/18psi, either. Or 21 psi.... The stock turbos are good for a lot more power than given credit for, if you know what you're doing. Here is an extreme example, ignoring the USA bhp inflation: http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=441. To suggest that beyond 14psi you need to look into bigger turbos and may as well drop a few grand on a forged build is simply not the way it needs to be, when there are in fact plenty of options available. A 3L twin turbo V6 with forged rods from the factory pushing out 280+bhp with restrictive exhaust, manifolds, intake, miniscule turbos and SMICs and a less-than-ideal ECU map is not going to struggle at 500bhp with the appropriate parts and tuning methods. No different to the 2JZ. It's kind of odd that so many owners believe that VG30DETTs are fragile, when in fact they are Nissan's crowning glory from the 80s & 90s. The UK Zed tuning scene is such a long way behind everywhere else, still at the mercy of 10yr old generic maps that weren't much cop a decade ago. Thank God for JD, otherwise it would be even worse off :ph34r: A good friend of mine is looking to buy a Zed having come from a 540bhp Nissan S14. This sums things up pretty well: Similar response to him and this thread: For the last 13 months, 17-21 psi, 380-394bhp, 380-410lbft & 13.1@110mph with stock injectors, stock turbos, stock SMICs on my daily driver, dragged regularly.

Look forward to it :thumbup1:

All those estimations are too low if everything is in good working order and the engine isn't a ticking time bomb. VG30DETT: Criminally-underrated & never trusted.....

That ain't 'Stance'.... This is STANCE: Can't say I'm a fan :sleep:

Happy 2013!!

The one on the driver's side being the pipe that sits at the rear of the engine? I don't get any oil mist either. There was oil residue around the PCV valves and the breather ports on the turbo inlet pipes, so a delete was past due!

It's quite well known that USA Horses are a different breed to UK horses, but the following thread over on TT.net from Jan 2011 really highlights the disparity: http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300zx/forums/general/view/2416119/Selin-Dual-Intake-and-dual-pop-history-with-Dyno-Chart.html When talking about the limits and correlation between voltage & power using a single OEM MAF, the following question was asked: Answered by: So, apparently 5V MAF voltage = 500hp at the rear wheels in the States, with a linear relationship up to this point (100whp=1V)... Conversely, I've seen 4.5V at 343rwhp (394@fly) on the Zed and around 4.4V on my Pulsar with a T28. Going on the Zed results, that's a difference of around 30% give or take a pony or two. Is there anyone on here (or in the UK generally) that has got anywhere near 500rwhp on a single Z32 MAF...?

Only because I'm running dual short intakes with a single MAF. It's not completely finished, and I might not need it at all. Alternatively, I may need to tee the IACV pipe into the centre of the balancer when I get time. Whatever gives me the best idle control along with the mapping. Saying that, it was idling perfectly last night when I was checking things over.

Yeah, I'll probably route the lines into something nice and shiny in the new year. Until the shops open, I'll just use an empty 2l bottle of some beverage :D

I haven't, I used one pipe for each intake cam breather routed to the battery area. Like this pic (shamelessly stolen), but without a tee and going to the battery area instead of the front of the car:

I deleted the PCVs the other night as I decided to go with a pre-turbo balance tube as I'm running dual intakes (no Selin) and it was easiest to use the breather inlets on the 'accordions'. 1/4" NPT plugs in both inlet manifolds to replace the valves. Both inlet cam cover breathers at the front routed to the battery area separately (14mm breather pipe, not tee'd). Blocked the pipe that goes round the back of the head to the offside PCV (easier than removing and blocking at the rear of the engine). This runs from the rear of the nearside exhaust cam cover. Blocked the outlet on the nearside exhaust cam cover that ran to the PCV.

Hello & welcome :)

How does a monkey make toast? He puts it under the gorilla :lol:

I'll be heading from the Midlands to the middle of Wales via various places in the next few days to pick up some large bulky items. I'll be in a van so if anyone needs any items collecting and delivering the same day within a large radius of my route please feel free to get in touch. Stuff such as engines, gearboxes, interior, tailgates & panels, wheels etc. :thumbup1:

All the best everybody. Cheeck out Santa's new sleigh:

Ran them on my cars for years. The threads on the cheapy ones (all of them...?) can be a bit soft apparently, I've never had any problems though.