Trevz

Yes, and alot more dangerous with cars moving at the same speed on motorways, crawling past overtaking each other like HGV's do now. I like to pass quickly and keep as much space as poss around me. Does anyone remember the M4 scamera protest, when the camera vans started sitting on bridges? Since then the scammers haven't been there but are claiming a 60% reduction in crashes! Now they are back on the bridges again. Here's some interesting facts about accident causation on the M4, from the ABD yesterday : **** EMBARGOED UNTIL 23.59 WEDNESDAY 20 JULY 2005 **** New research undermines M4 cameras New research from road safety group the Association of British Drivers today damned the M4 speed cameras as "a massive mistake". The Association was also charged £111 for access to vital information about the causes of crashes which, it believes, should have been made public. In data provided by Wiltshire Constabulary, driver inattention topped the list of accident causes, followed by poor lane changing and careless/reckless behaviour. In fact, not one single accident had excess speed as the sole cause. But included in the crashes that allowed the Partnership to use speed cameras were: - an accident where a pedestrian fell from a bridge - an accident where a gust of wind pushed one lorry into another - several tyre blowout accidents - a crash where a car drove the wrong way up the motorway "Excess speed" came fifth on a list of accident causes along with driver fatigue. "Excess speed includes accidents where vehicles were travelling within the speed limit but too fast for the conditions - e.g. fog - where cameras could have no effect. Mark McArthur-Christie, the ABD's Road Safety Spokesman, said "These statistics show clearly that speed is far from the most significant factor in crashes - but no matter what the causes, the Partnership still thinks cameras are the solution. These figures show that cameras on the M4 will do absolutely nothing for road safety. They should be withdrawn immediately." In investigating the causes of M4 crashes, the ABD found that hard data was next to impossible to acquire. The camera Partnership even initially denied that they held data on the causes of crashes. After requesting information from a range of departments and organisations, a request under the Freedom of Information Act was also turned down. The ABD was finally forced to pay £111 to Wiltshire Constabulary for the data. McArthur-Christie continued, "This data - now we've forced it into the public domain - raises very serious questions about the use of speed cameras on the M4. It also raises questions about why the data has not been made public before." Brian Gregory, the ABD's Chairman, said "This work shows clearly that we need to get away from the whole "the answer's a speed camera, now what's the question?" approach to road safety. We also want to see them forced to publish the causes of crashes they use to justify cameras." Notes for editors The major causes of M4 crashes, 1999-2004 were: Inattention - a factor in 28% of crashes Failure to judge others' path or speed (ie - poor lane changing) - a factor in 28% of crashes Lack of judgement of own path - a factor in 17% of crashes Fatigue - a factor in 14% of crashes Careless, thoughtless or reckless behaviour - a factor in 14% of crashes Excess speed - a factor in 14% of crashes "Excess speed" is speed which is too fast for the conditions as well as speed in excess of the posted limit. As such, it is impossible to find out how many crashes were caused by drivers exceeding the limit and how many by simply too fast for the conditions. Significantly, the causes of crashes are given rankings by accident investigators. They class causes as definite, probable and possible. "Excess speed" was ranked as a "definite" cause in just one fatal crash - less than 1% of all accidents. *Data from Wiltshire Constabulary, M4 crashes 1999-2004 ************************************************** Press Enquiries: 0870 4442535 ABD general enquiries and membership: 07000-781544 For more information about the ABD visit our Website at http://www.abd.org.uk END

Agree with your first point, accidents mainly happen because people aren't concentrating on the task, but I dont get your second point. Are you saying speed cameras save lives? If so please give evidence of a camera saving a life. Yes they are out there I agree, but if drivers sit back and just accept them soon you wont be able to breathe for the damn things! Protest now or the 'transport 2000' & 'brake' types of car hating PC emotional crapsters will soon have them every 1/2 mile or so and nanny you to death! Public opinion is 70-80% against cameras in independant polls ( not biased polls carried out by camera partnerships ) and the government know it.

COS, hardluck mate, good point well made, speed cameras punish safe drivers doing slightly more than a draconian speed limit perfectly safely and that's about all they do. Most people they catch are driving safely at the time and that's what's so farcical and upsetting - being punished for driving safely. All other aspects of driving that ARE actually dangerous they cannot detect, tailgating, drunk, drugged, unlicenced, incompetent, too slow, too fast in rain/fog etc etc. But we all know this and so do they ..££. Then you hear stories like the 159mph copper which rubs salt in, tell me it's a joke!

Remember it was only a few weeks ago Darling Alister was in the news talking about the governments plans to make motorists 'pay as you go' (upto £1.50 per mile?) within the next ten years. A GPS system will be installed in your car, tracking you and knowing your speed. My concern is that this could be a diversionary tactic. Instead of the permanent Gatsos, we could see growth in mobile cameras, SPECS cameras, and guess what, in-car speed monitoring devices - GPS. Speeding revenue is a self financing nice little earner, I cant see that changing TBH, safety doesn't come into it, they cherry pick the stats to say what they want anyway. Apparently there was an overall drop in the fatality rate on UK roads last year - DFT.

Yes, very good work by the authorities. So it seems they were British by name only, probably of immigrant parents, a dormant cell waiting in the woodwork, sickening, one thing's for sure there's plenty more of them too. I wonder what culture/religion they belonged to?

LOL yeah , especially the SWB version with the more modern version - HICARSE, hope my gran buys one anyway, visiting on Sunday afternoon will be much more fun!

I've pasted the story below, apologies if it's old news. NISSAN BUILDS BONKERS 315BHP MICRA 350Z donates tweaked 3.5-litre V6 Auto Express reports this week that Nissan has shoehorned a tweaked version of the 3.5-litre V6 from the 350Z coupé -- into a Micra. The car's to be called the Micra 350SR, and also features a special body kit. In a move reminiscent of Renault's Clio V6, Nissan has thrown away the rear seats to make way for a mid-mounted version of the 310bhp engine, which has been mated to a close-ratio, six-speed manual gearbox driving the rear wheels. Nissan reckoned the car will make 60mph in under five seconds, with a 150mph top speed. The heart transplant was conducted by race and tuning company Ray Mallock Limited using parts made by Nissan's motorsport division, Nismo. 350Z wheels and hubs are used along with specially machined drive shafts. Painted in the 2005 350Z Japanese GT touring car colours, the muscular Micra 350SR was first shown at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. Question is, would you want to do 150mph in a Micra?

Ahh, I've missed the humour around here, they aint half so funny in the Mazda club, have to get me another Z !

Hi all. just wondered if anyone's a member of http://www.mazdarotaryclub.co.uk ? It seems to have disappeared!

And the reason for the massive ever increasing taxes on the motorist is in the name of the environment, how many of you actually buy the man-made global warming theory, which they use to justify these taxes? Here's a couple of facts : Atmospheric carbon dioxide levels, currently only 350 parts per million have been over 18 times higher in the past at a time when cars, factories and power stations did not exist — levels rise and fall without mankind's help. 96.5% of all carbon dioxide emissions are from natural sources, mankind is responsible for only 3.5%, with 0.6% coming from fuel to move vehicles, and about 1% from fuel to heat buildings. Yet vehicle fuel (petrol) is taxed at 300% while fuel to heat buildings is taxed at 5% even though buildings emit nearly twice as much carbon dioxide! As carbon dioxide emissions from cars and factories does not have any measurable impact on climate, these taxes are 'just another tax' on enterprise and mobility, and have no real green credentials. The planet does not need saving, but taking this on anyway, removing every car from every road in every country overnight would NOT produce any change in the carbon dioxide level of the atmosphere and in any case it is pointless trying to alter climate by changing carbon dioxide levels as the cause and effect is the other way round — it is changes in the activity of the Sun that cause temperature changes on earth, with any temperature rise causing carbon dioxide to de-gas from the oceans. There are nearly 18,000 signatures from scientists worldwide on a petition called The Oregon Petition which says that there is no evidence for man-made global warming theory nor for any impact from mankind's activities on climate. Many scientists believe that the Kyoto agreement is a total waste of time and one of the biggest political scams ever perpetrated on the public ... as H L Mencken said "the fundamental aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary" ... the desire to save the world usually fronts a desire to rule it.

Bridgestone SO2's were best tyre I've ever had, now have goodyear F1's - excellent in the wet but steering seems slightly more vague in the dry, maybe cos they only have one solid centre band of rubber so the deep treads 'give' a little. Prefer Bridgestones in the dry.

LOL so Darling Alister wants us to pay as we go, to lesson the congestion they created in the first place! What 8ollox! I say get rid of traffic calming schemes - humps chicanes etc, unnecessary traffic lights, bus lanes, stupid lowered speed limits, scp's, road works that last forever etc. and build more phookin roads. Not much chance now this lot have been voted back in though! Funny it wasn't mentioned in their manifesto?? Ofcourse he'll know what speed you're doing too via the black box in your car, so those he cant tax off the road he'll have a good go with penalty points! Dont be so sure that this wont come in, there's alot of ppl pushing for this. As has been said, I cant understand any car enthusiast voting Labour, perhaps they dont realise their freedoms will be lost. Then again they only got 36% of the vote.

Hey Mark, Are you gonna turn up , the more the merrier :-) Twinpier posted this a few days ago, but there hasn't been any interest here from Z drivers. Loads of interest on other forums tho, pistonheads and safespeed have got threads about it.

LOL , what a load of bolox, there must be more to that story than meets the eye?

Not much interest in this from the ZX club :-( There's gonna be alot of vehicles taking part it seems, Click on the link and then 'participate' to veiw the agenda.

The basic rate of income tax wont rise under Labour, but the overall tax burden will.. again! They're sneaky bstads, have any self employed among us noticed how they cut class 2 national insurance contributions to £26 per quarter, but then raised class 4 NICS to 8% of your total profit, effectively making the basic income tax rate now 30%. So they didnt raise income tax but it's gone up to 30% , clever.. sneaky. To be honest, even if Labour lowered the tax burden by 50% I could never vote for them, I just cant stand their bureacracy and waste and civil servant jobs created just to make more regulations and nanny legislation. Are there any civil servants that dont vote Labour? BTW, the poll tax was the fairest system we have ever seen, each person paying their own way. unfortunately labour councils were allowed to set the amount to be paid and took advantage of that.

He cant now be seen to be involved with anything unlawfull, that's why he can only show support as a broker.

LOL Dear oh dear billynomates! And if he was a Labour man he'd now be a hero, right? LOL

'He has refused to support unlawful blockades but hopes to act as a broker in new negotiations with ministers'. Dont twist the facts guys!! Why leave out the last few words of that sentence?

BTT

Sorry to hear that, but I'm talking about and living in the present, not the past.

This text is from Paul Smith of Safespeed, who's doing some great work and would appreciate any support if you can. I've dug up official policy statements from the main political parties and published them to a new Safe Speed page: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/election2005.html It's perfectly clear to me that only the Conservatives have the foundations of an intelligent road safety policy. If anyone has further information that should appear on the page, then please send it along by email. As news items become available I'll post them to the page. Christopher Booker, in today's Telegraph suggests that road safety is off the agenda because it's expected to be devolved to Brussels. (link on Election 2005 page). It's going to take a great deal of work to get road safety onto the political agenda, but I'm going to try. I'd like to be in London making a fuss in the last ten days before the election, but there would be a lot of expenses and presently I can't afford it. If you want to support such activity, send a donation or join Safe Speed urgently. PayPal donate: https://www.paypal.com/xclick/business=psmith%40safespeed.org.uk&item_name=Donation&no_note=1¤cy_code=GBP Join Safe Speed as a member: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/join.html Feel free to pass this email around to other lists or individuals. -- Best Regards, Paul Smith Safe Speed web: http://www.safespeed.org.uk --------------------------------- promoting intelligent road safety supraman2954 11:08 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bump...... I've voted with my wallet. Go get 'em Paul. To the PH collective: Just for once, spend your money on this worthwhile cause, instead of your usual weekend blat/cruise or evening pissup; it'll make you feel just as good, I promise Paul's campaigning may save you so much more in the future. This is a sound investment, surely all PHers agree? Please support the Safe Speed campaign lucozade 11:28 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yip, I've donated £50. Good work Paul keep it up. Come on PH lets get some money together for this good cause. It could make all the difference in the future. tb993tt 12:13 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- £99 paypalled to you - thanks for your efforts

You must be on a different planet to me then! Why would you want further restrictions and taxes on motoring, gps devices fitted to your car so they know where you are and what speed you're doing, no smoking or picking your nose in the car, generally more nannying and bureaucratic waste. AKA Labour policys. I dont understand how any keen motorist can vote Labour or even worse Lib Dem, or how about the greens ffs! Atleast the conservatives aren't quite so bad in comparison!

If anyone's interested, you can veiw the protest thread at http://www.pistonheads.com Click on forums, then 'speed, plod and the law'.

LOL They wanted an old one so they can get all the tourism cash again soon when he kicks it! I had 100quid on this German one so gd result, well pleased!