Without wanting to start an argument here, Im just curious as to what people want to vote or if they haven't made up their minds.

this was once a strong powerfull and great nation, and i will for one be voting out to get it back. and i am also glad that this discusion has been kept sensable and not personal, great stuff, lets here more opinons.

I don't see any reasons that suggest leaving the EU will make our country great again! It's not going to rebalance our economy to be more manufacturing based, and it's surely not going to increase our political clout on the world stage, quite the opposite!

 

I also want this country to be great, so I won't be voting for us to take a backward step and shy away from globalisation.

 

Besides, we're doing bloody well considering how small we are.

If we do end up leaving the EU I would like to see a new process introduced that ensures job seekers and benefit claimants do some sort of work for their money. Instead of staying home all day breeding they could be out litter picking, cleaning up graffiti, cleaning public toilets, working in public funded centers, anything like that. Then when they find the job they actually want to do everybody is happy.

 

Maybe I could retire earlier than 75 then

If we do end up leaving the EU I would like to see a new process introduced that ensures job seekers and benefit claimants do some sort of work for their money. Instead of staying home all day breeding they could be out litter picking, cleaning up graffiti, cleaning public toilets, working in public funded centers, anything like that. Then when they find the job they actually want to do everybody is happy.

 

Maybe I could retire earlier than 75 then

But they'd just be taking someone else's job to do that and then there'd be even more claimants!

Out for me. They wanted to ban bent banana`s !! Tut tut !! :nana2::nana2::nana2:

 

Alan.............

Fear not Bigmincey - if we leave the EU, wee Sturgeon will call a referendum and try to get us back in and keep the bent bananas out.

But they'd just be taking someone else's job to do that and then there'd be even more claimants!

 

What about things we are short of? Or create new roles?

 

Someone to go through all the bins in city centres and separate all the recycling before it goes to landfall.

Someone to cut the grass more often instead of once every two months.

Someone to collect residential waste more than once every two weeks.

Someone to litter pick one area every day instead of once every two weeks.

Permanent neighborhood watch

Permanent street pastors at night in city centre locations

Someone to man the phones for out of hours public services

Someone to go round picking up dog mess only

 

The list is literally endless

 

This could also create jobs in a supervisory role for people that actually want to work (someone needs to be in charge of them to make sure they are doing what they are meant to be doing)

Fear not Bigmincey - if we leave the EU, wee Sturgeon will call a referendum and try to get us back in and keep the bent bananas out.

 

Maybe just make do with straight banana`s then !!:sneaky2:

 

Alan.............

What about things we are short of? Or create new roles?

 

Someone to go through all the bins in city centres and separate all the recycling before it goes to landfall.

Someone to cut the grass more often instead of once every two months.

Someone to collect residential waste more than once every two weeks.

Someone to litter pick one area every day instead of once every two weeks.

Permanent neighborhood watch

Permanent street pastors at night in city centre locations

Someone to man the phones for out of hours public services

Someone to go round picking up dog mess only

 

The list is literally endless

 

This could also create jobs in a supervisory role for people that actually want to work (someone needs to be in charge of them to make sure they are doing what they are meant to be doing)

I suspect that by the time you give them the legally necessary "training" (h&s etc) and they got the hang of what they were doing it wouldn't be worth it and would have cost too much. Plus all the admin behind it and stuff. I like these sorts of ideas in theory but I just wonder whether they're realistic, otherwise why aren't we doing them now?

I suspect that by the time you give them the legally necessary "training" (h&s etc) and they got the hang of what they were doing it wouldn't be worth it and would have cost too much. Plus all the admin behind it and stuff. I like these sorts of ideas in theory but I just wonder whether they're realistic, otherwise why aren't we doing them now?

 

I know right...

 

Certainaly no need for any training whatsoever for litter picking or picking up dog dirt

I suspect that by the time you give them the legally necessary "training" (h&s etc) and they got the hang of what they were doing it wouldn't be worth it and would have cost too much. Plus all the admin behind it and stuff. I like these sorts of ideas in theory but I just wonder whether they're realistic, otherwise why aren't we doing them now?

 

Because PC bull shit. It would be claimed that they at being forced to do demeaning task, a recent programme where they did voluntary work I shops etc got the same flak, snore. The people that do similar tasks kick off saying your demeaning thier profession. Then there's the, we're working so you should pay us the living wage. Snore.

If you are desperate enough to go begging to the government to charity, that's actually what we're talking here with JSA then you should be humble enough to accept its not free money and that you will have to do something crap for it. Learn the value of money.

Equally it pisses me off when you see two or even one old bid locked in a 4 bed concil hours who won't give it up as its thier home...for that young family now living in a bed and breakfast. If you HAVE to have housing provided for you it's not yours, it should be given up once you no longer need it for those that do. It's simply not fair.

That is true the teacher is SPOT on. I see it myself on a daily basis.

 

Completely agree with you. I drive buses and on a Thursday going to the dole office, its not foreigners on the bus. Its white British citizens, single mums, alcoholics, druggies and surprisingly quite a lot of young people with baseball caps on at a strange angle with hoverboards. We have about 20 EU workers from all over, Poland, Portugal, Germany, Italy and they are more hard working than most of our employees, rarely phone in sick, never late, etc.

 

Before I start my diatribe against the UK, Please let it be known that I am totally white British (although I have 1/16 swiss in me), I was born here, lived until I was 19 here and I love it here, I love living here and even after 10 years in China, I still came back with my family because there is a better chance of a good life here...

 

On another note, Britain isn't great any more. It hasn't been since the 60s/70s when the end of the empire concluded. We were only great before because we were THE superpower. Our empire, manufacturing sector and global trade meant every country looked up to us, traded with us, etc, even America. But now with Americas great boom in the 50's, China and India's monumental leaps forward, we haven't got a chance. America facilitated it in many ways, The debt we owed after WW2 (finally paid off in 2005) was used as leverage to give the empire countries their independence (Just look at this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom That's how big we were!)

 

We lost all of our natural resources, our manufacturing and our labour. Then in the 60's, under pressure from America we changed immigration laws to balance with the empire, eg If Brits can go to India, Indians could come here. It was a massive open door policy and had very few restrictions. That's why in the 70's Britain had an influx of people from all over the world. In London before then there were very very few minorities, it was rare to see a Black person or an Indian etc.

 

Now we are just a small rock on the edge of the Atlantic with dwindling natural resources, a small manufacturing sector and one city filled with embezzling bankers. We have a population of 68m people, which is nothing. The Tier 2 (medium sized) city I lived in China had 20m people, There's no way we can compete with economies like that by ourselves. These trade deals that have been set up with China mean nothing. At any point China can wave its hand and we will be thrown into the dark ages. We need the EU to stay a float in this globalized world of electronic money, post panama super trade routes and ebays international program.

 

We will never be Great again in the misty eyed way that I feel the leave group is remembering. We wont have an empire, we wont have a massive work force of children working in factories and cleaning chimneys. The world has moved on since then and Super-Super powers like America, China, India and Russia have changed the game into something we cant compete in. The whole EU is struggling against cheap Chinese steel. If the EU is struggling how the hell are we going to cope by ourselves?

How do people feel some way into this? Has anyone changed camp, cemented an opinion etc? Does it even feel like any things being done. I think we can all agree that the 9million pound leaflet drive were all about to receive in coming days is both unfair and a waste of tax payers money.

I consider myself an intelligent person and I have a reasonable understanding of our political systems and politics in general, but for me (and probably 95% of voters, knowingly or not) I feel that this decision has far too much going on, too many variables and too many unknown factors for me to comprehend the consequences and educate a vote. Shot in the dark!

My thoughts so far are based around the complete lack of clarity regarding the claims from both sides. Both citing fear of loss but no figures to back it up. It is only their opinion and I'm sure we all trust the opinions of politicians. Are we, as humble citizens , qualified to make this decision? You cannot make a decision until you have all of the information required. As yet, we are not and probably never will be, fully informed so have to go with Joellyp on this one. Heads or tails?

How do people feel some way into this? Has anyone changed camp, cemented an opinion etc? Does it even feel like any things being done. I think we can all agree that the 9million pound leaflet drive were all about to receive in coming days is both unfair and a waste of tax payers money.

 

I wondered if Mr Cameron was using his inheritance / Fathers Tax dodging funds to pay for the leaflets??.....

 

Maybe not though as it may reveal his offshore accounts......:innocent::whistling:

He won't be spending his own money Russ, just like he has given a tax brake to his buddies of recent.

 

In serious reply to if we should be deciding such an important thing, I believe we should yes. Such an important issue should be decided by the people and not merely dictated to us by a small finically elite group. That is fundamental in a democracy and something we see all too little of IMO. I think the outcome is forgone though as the idea the referendum will actually be fair is pie in the sky.

Beeb had an article today that said some other nations that have access to to trade bloc have to sign up to the freedom of movement treaty so if we ended up having to do that then that does go against one of the main arguments of leaving

 

Some, not all....and most likely just those countries without sufficient economic clout to dictate their own terms. We had a trade deficit with the eu of £72billion in 2014 - the eu cannot afford to risk our market by imposing trade barriers or restrictions such as those you mentioned above.

 

For every euro that germany spends on British imports we spend the equivalent of 2 euros on theirs. Given that they sell twice as much to us as we buy from them they would not risk losing our market.......and merkel dictates eu policy these days!

 

Last year we sent £150billion of goods into the eu but bought £220billion of goods. The eu will not risk losing our market!

 

Only 38% of UK exports went to the eu in 2014....and that figure is declining. That means 62% of our exports go to non-eu countries. Trade with the eu is becoming less and less relevant to our prosperity every year. Outside the eu we could agree our own more favourable trade agreements with the rest of the world, including emerging markets which are growing faster than the eu (the World's economy grew by 3.4% in 2014...whereas the eu economy only grew by 0.8%)

 

72% of US investors say that a looser relationship with the eu would make the UK more favourable for investments here (Ernst & Young)

 

In the union of 28 nations there are 9 net contributors (UK, france, germany, denmark, italy, netherlands, austria, finland, sweden) meaning we pay in more than we get out - the rest of the member states get more from the eu than they pay in.....from your taxes!

 

The UK's net contribution in 2014 (ie how much more we paid in than we got out) was enough to pay for 28 state-of-the-art hospitals.

 

Our steel industry is on it's knees because eu regulations prevent the government from intervening....a double-whammy given that our steel prices are only uncompetitive due to eu regulations increasing production costs. Your industry could be next!

 

64% of FTSE 100 companies refused to endorsed the governments pro-eu propaganda.

 

In 2015 the UK was only allowed to fish 30% of the total fish that were fished in UK water (ie 70% of our fish was allocated to other eu countries!)

 

UK unemployment stands at 5% eurozone unemployment stands at 10.3%

 

#Vote Leave eu

A lot of it also hinges on what policy changes will be made if an out vote was successful, although I guess a new general election will be upon us before the official process has been fully completed for the parties to fight that battle?

A lot of it also hinges on what policy changes will be made if an out vote was successful, although I guess a new general election will be upon us before the official process has been fully completed for the parties to fight that battle?

 

From what I have read it takes 2 years to start the process of leaving (The Lisbon agreement 1992) So odds are we will have a new government and will have another leave or remain vote! :lol:

From what I have read it takes 2 years to start the process of leaving (The Lisbon agreement 1992) So odds are we will have a new government and will have another leave or remain vote! :lol:

 

They keep saying 5 years to complete minimum. Which is crazy.

Well I've cast my bet. I call it that because either way it's a shot in the dark.

Well I've cast my bet. I call it that because either way it's a shot in the dark.

 

Me too.....

 

.....And I've posted an anonymous exit poll..... No comments, no telling us how or why you voted that way; just how you ended up voting....:wink:

 

http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?185110-EU-referendum-exit-poll-!

Remain.

In or out.... I'll still have to change my Euro's for pound's if I go to Schotland every 2 years :scooter:

I went with thinking another way to everyone else I spoke to......

 

If it were a vote for us to join the EU, knowing what we do about it, laws, unelected officials making decisions, immigration, propping up Greece and the euro....... would you vote to join?

 

Too much false information and muddying the waters by both sides........

 

The EU to me is exactly like the 'Eurovision Song Contest' everyone helps their neighbours and we get 'nil point'.......

 

only my view though.....:euro: