EU: Leave or Remain

[Chris]

I assume that we would be able to travel Europe, but we would either need visas (like when you go to America or Canada, they would be available on arrival) or the UK would have to sign up to the EU Freedom of Movement Treaty like Norway and Switzerland do. However that would still allow people immigrate into this country, therefore making one of the main "leave" arguments pointless... So the way I see it, by leaving and therefore restricting immigration, on a quid pro quo the EU would restrict our immigration and tourism visitations. This also leads to another question; What about the 2.2m Brits living in the EU? Will they be forced out and back here? Will they need visas to live there? Will they be able to claim their pensions/benefits there as they do now? I really think this vote is floored as there are too many "what ifs" for regular citizens like us to think about let alone understand.

Beeb had an article today that said some other nations that have access to to trade bloc have to sign up to the freedom of movement treaty so if we ended up having to do that then that does go against one of the main arguments of leaving

[Stephen]

That's only IF we remain in the trade bloc. It's also worth noting that our economy is the size of all those half member nations combined, so we're in a very different position in terms of bargaining power. However no arrangements or plans seem to be discussed as to how we would operate, in or out or what we'd ask for.

[jimmer]

Id like out too be honest,we are an Island and have our own ways of doing things,i dont like the fact decisions are made by people who dont understand our culture and way of life.And i certainly dont like propping up countries who lied to get into Europe for subsidies.Talks today of raising again the retirement age to 75,In Greece its 52 !!! and they want bailouts from us,crazy !!

[Stephen]

It's worth remembering that even if we do get independence that won't change really. The UK will still be governed from one city that's detached both economically and culturally from the rest of its own country let alone the other three countries in the union.

[arthur]

PM Ted Heath took us into the EU

PM Harold Wilson had a referendum on staying in. 68% in favour.

PM John Major kept the uk £ not the euro

I liked my black passport cover now red!

The Germans seem to have a bottomless pit of euros to bailout countries in financial difficulty.

Along with more constraints to those countries!

Economically we are governed by the US. If they want us to stay in the EU we will!

Lots of other factors for us to ponder over & we all have our own opinion.

Good luck in your quest to making a final decision!

[TonyB]

Ted Heath took us into the EEC the European Economic Community .......

 

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[AndrewG]

Just for clarification - UK national doesn't need a visa to go to the US unless they are working. It's called the visa waver program.

As a seafarer I require a US C1/D visa. But if I'm just going on holiday I don't need anything.

 

You still need to apply and pay for an ESTA (Electronic System for Travel Authorization) to holiday in the states.

[Gabriel]

Speaking as Someone who reletivly rescently made an IN/OUT vote, we were given "weighted" facts by both sides as to the pro's and cons of independance. Ultamatly the majority of us will never have a proper grasp of the TRUE detail that would be required to make an informed descision. What we will do, and as I did in our reforendom, is vote with our hearts.

 

Good luck with however you vote.

[RichardS]

I am in the "leave" camp.....

 

.....And without jumping on one band wagon or another, my reasons are simple. We vote for our own politicians and government - and whether or not you support whichever government we have, the fact remains they won an election fair and square. And they can be voted out again in 5 years, by us, the British people. So why should we have laws, whatever they may be, forced upon us by an authority unelected by the British people?

 

The EU is fine for trade and nothing else. However as a leading global economy, we should be looking at selling to the rest of the world outside the EU. Apart from Germany, Scandinavia and (possibly) France, the rest of Europe is teetering on the edge of he U-bend. They have no money, so cannot buy from fact we are expected to help bail them out!! So economically, we'd be better off - in fact I reckon we'd thrive and our recovery would accelerate if we pulled out of the EU.

 

Each country in the EU is different. Different cultures, attitudes etc. So trying to get all together in a "United States" type union just will not work - we all want to maintain our independence; with some countries actually wanting to call all the shots themselves. Again, nothing would ever get done; there are meetings, summits, and whatever else politicians want to call it. Yet still nothing beneficial to the people ever gets decided, as they all want for different things.

 

No, we're better off alone; with our own currencies, monetary and tax policies, the right to decide on our own laws and destiny.

[Sir Charles]

Like Stephen quite rightly said though, all the decisions will be made in London which is practically foreign to myself as it is for the rest of the country.

[Stephen]

Like Stephen quite rightly said though, all the decisions will be made in London which is practically foreign to myself as it is for the rest of the country.

 

It's a different world to here and many other places in Britian. Changing from a bunch of European toffs to exclusively londoncentric toffs won't impact that. I want out, but I want more than what's on offer I think. My minds pretty much made up on the out verdict, I'm not convinced it will change much if anything though.

[Sir Charles]

If it gets rid of the FCA and we can close down all the PPI claiming companies I'm all for it haha

[alicowan]

If we come out of the EU we'd save the £17Bn annual payment. The government could then scrap road tax and fix all the potholes. Sorted.

[TheRealNips]

If we come out of the EU we'd save the £17Bn annual payment. The government could then scrap road tax and fix all the potholes. Sorted.

 

What about the £58bn we would lose in trade? Increase in road tax and even more potholes i feel...

[TonyB]

We would recover that trade pretty quickly Our Balance of Payments with the rest of EU is in their favour so just stop trading with them and we're quids in !

 

Airbus can't fly without Wings and they are made in the UK, They won't stop drinking Scotch and the list goes on and on

[TheRealNips]

We would recover that trade pretty quickly Our Balance of Payments with the rest of EU is in their favour so just stop trading with them and we're quids in !

 

Airbus can't fly without Wings and they are made in the UK, They won't stop drinking Scotch and the list goes on and on

 

There could be so much new red tape in trading with us that things like the airbus wings get re-located to the EU. It might make more business sense to just build them in a EU factory using EU personnel and cut around the new headache of dealing with a non EU state...

 

My personal feeling is that the leave campaign isnt making these type of things clear enough. If you were a share holder and the company director said the company was going to dive into a new market with no experience, you would want to know the EXACT game plan with contingency plans for everything. All I have seen from the leave campaign are things like "it'll be all right" or "We might be like Norway". im sorry, but i need more convincing than people telling me "it will be ok". This vote is the single most important thing this country has ever done in planning for its future. We as the population could seriously f**k this up because of empty promises (from either side) and bad biased media coverage. People need to research the f**k out of this before making an opinion because I dont think there will be any going back after...

[Sir Charles]

The problem is the 'send them back to their own country' and 'wake up Britain' types will want to vote us out either way as their research takes place on Facebook and Britain First websites.

 

I'm guessing that the vast London based voters will keep us in though.

[Stephen]

What about the £58bn we would lose in trade? Increase in road tax and even more potholes i feel...

 

There in lies the biggest issue. You cannot simply state by not paying 17B to be in the club will automatically loose the 58B, is unclear how much would be lost. This is where I agree with lexx that the out campaign aren't really doing much to answer these kind of questions. I know it's impossible to accurately forecast but their current answer is "it will be ok". Make no mistake it's a gamble and it's a gamble were not actually being given odds on or even a contingent for if it back fires. Yes I want out but I want to know where I'm going once I'm out.

[Stephen]

The problem is the 'send them back to their own country' and 'wake up Britain' types will want to vote us out either way as their research takes place on Facebook and Britain First websites.

 

I'm guessing that the vast London based voters will keep us in though.

 

The funniest part about those people is the people they want to send back are often more British than they are.

[Spin Doctor]

for warning is is for armed,please exscuse my spelling.

I am out

we are paying out to the eu 350 million pounds a week, for what. and yes that equates to just shy of 18 billion ...?for what? i think our nurses schools and other stuff could benfit from this,

 

we carnt wipe our own bottoms without someone from the eu saying we carnt do it like that,who are they to tell us ?

we live in the united kingdom not united europe, so we want our laws over here, not to be told how we control our own boaders and we carnt extradite somone whos a threat to our lives and way of life. who are they.? this is great brtian not great europe,

since the euro came in the brtish pound has always being stronger than the euro, do we really want monopoly money and stand to lose another 25 pence in the pound again.anyone remember decimalistion and how that affected our pockets in 71. its bad enough we lossed our inches and feet for the cm to fit in the so called eu,

if our goverment choose to take in 100 people or 10 thousand people then thats fine,but do we want our boarders to made open to people to decide that we can take in another million refuges. anyone tried to get an appointment lately, our resorces are already stretched and our schools overflowing, anyone seen whats been going on in germany ,women getting raped in the streets ,the fire service not allowed to put out fires that they started to make a plolitical point, i for one want our wives and daughter save on the streets day and night, i want my family safe.,

my son came home from scholl the other day and got told that the teacher had taught the class that polish people come over here to do the jobs in our fields because our people dont want to do it, i told my son the truth. i told my son that the migrants would not take a 16k a year job over herebecause if they did they then would affect there benifits that there sending home to there family members of whom have never steped foot into britan before.get your facts right teachers.?

why are they holding back the descussions just two days before the vote? have it now and stop this drip feed scare tatics about what if,, and the germans the biggest hypocrites because there biggest tradding that use to be france is now the usa, off whom are not in the eu.thats accordding to Borris Jonston.of whom i think will make a great priminster for us and also wants us out.along with the previous chancellor,

Im out and want our country back, and why is it that none yet has said anything about our banks yet also.smells like bakehanders to me,and if the euro is so great in looking after its own them why is greece still in the sheet and not being bailed out,

i could go on but i have a life to lead and im of to pick up my children from school,whilst my children still have a place there.

im Out because i want a great britan not a failed eu.

[Sir Charles]

my son came home from scholl the other day and got told that the teacher had taught the class that polish people come over here to do the jobs in our fields because our people dont want to do it.

 

That is true the teacher is SPOT on. I see it myself on a daily basis.

[dutchgold92]

"Of course foreigners steal your job, but maybe, if someone without contacts, money, or speaking the language steals your job, you're shit"

[Mondo]

 

I'm guessing that the vast London based voters will keep us in though.

 

I read somewhere recently that English is no longer the primary language spoken in London.

 

That's quite a sad statistic, I feel :(

[Stephen]

I'm pleased to see this hasn't got silly yet. It would be really good if we could actually continue this way until we all make our votes either way. I know the mods are sitting on tender hooks with it but so far it's very balanced and constructive even if the majority seem to feel the same way.

[Spin Doctor]

this was once a strong powerfull and great nation, and i will for one be voting out to get it back. and i am also glad that this discusion has been kept sensable and not personal, great stuff, lets here more opinons.