Without wanting to start an argument here, Im just curious as to what people want to vote or if they haven't made up their minds.

To an extent I do agree with the sentiment that not everyone is qualified to make a rational and complete decision. However how do you quantify the eligiblity of a person. Do you have to have a degree? In actuality how would a textiles technology degree give you better insight into politics? I know some incredibly stupid smart people and vice versa. The demographic of the forum here is pretty average I'd say, would most of us Infact actually be exempt for a vote? We live in a free democracy, as such every man and woman over 18 can have their say. If you start limiting the people that can vote that's defiantly a step backwards for freedom and liberty, wether they agree with you or not.

 

Now the event is passed all these opinions we are getting are wasted breath. I know it's a car forum but this thread has been up for months with very little comment. Maybe if people felt so strong they should of expressed their opinions here before, rather than after the horse has bolted. Time to get on with it regardless of how you feel about the result.

I voted to Leave and, if I'm honest, I didn't expect that to be the result. But it is the result and, despite all the panic this morning, the FTSE is already pretty much back to the point it was in February when the referendum was first announced. So there's some good news that everyone can get behind. :)

 

It's all the mud-slinging from some of the Remain voters that's starting to really wind me up... all the forums and social media are rammed with people firing insult after insult at anyone who voted to Leave. If the result were reversed, I wouldn't be firing crap at people who voted differently to me!

 

So far today (by generalisation), I've been called uneducated, a racist, a bigot, a moron, a sheep, a lunatic... all of which I find deeply insulting, wildly inaccurate and hilarious in equal measure!

 

Britain has been fed up and Euro skeptic for many many years, by that I don't mean everyone wanted out but finding someone who believes the EU is actually good as it is is hard. Think back about bloody banana fiascos etc. Then there's the fact that the British don't really consider themselves "Europoens" we are in Europe but Europe is that lot over there, one foot has always been out the door. So actually it's not so surprising. Actually the win was narrow, there's no 75% landslide it's a few %. So actually the result says in truth that Britain is undecided on wether it should be in the EU but the majority feel the answer is no.

All this throwing the toys out the pram and media hysteria, painting people as thick or racist is laughable. An opinion is just that. The difference between bravery and stupidity is often the outcome. So far we haven't even walked out the door, someone has to be brave if anyone is going to succeed.

No one said it was going to be easy but in the long run I truly believe Britian is best off getting out the EU project.

 

This sums up my feelings too. I voted "out" myself, purely on the basis of democracy. We vote for our government, they make the laws. If we don't like it, we can vote them out in 5 years. We should not have an unelected body (IE the EU) dictating to us, or over-ruling our elected government's decisions. Simples.

 

If the EU could have been reformed to take individual countries' sovereignty into account, then I would happily have remained. However the Eurocrats in Brussels, I am afraid to say, cannot be reformed. They ride the EU gravy train, have their snouts so firmly in the EU trough (and all those other tired clichés) etc. etc. so the UK's hand was forced.

 

We'll get over it - the UK is strong enough, we just have to have the confidence. I did not expect "Brexit" to triumph - but the closeness of the result shows the country is pretty evenly divided on the issue. Which is why we have officials and MPs to make these decisions for us!! David Cameron included this referendum in his party's election manifesto. Rightly or wrongly, his party was elected into power on (among others) this promise - so he had to stand by it.

 

Should he have resigned? No!

 

In fact, as PM, he should have not publically taken any side during the referendum IMO - but reassured the public that he would be there to clear up after them, whatever the result was.

 

Onwards and upwards - whatever the future holds...:flowers:

Just googled this and found it interesting, especially the comparison to the prime minister and cabinet. Didn't really know how it worked before now

 

blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2016/06/21/is-the-eu-really-run-by-unelected-bureaucrats/

^^^ At least the future won't be dull.... :lol:

I voted for exit specifically because I believe our exit will help all Europeans (Well the workers & the unemployed at least, not so much the rich and wealthy and powerful who exploit them). Had we voted to remain, the EU government would continue business as normal, refusing to allow governments to protect their own home jobs, a right I think all countries should have and if we were any kind of considerate European neighbour we should be encouraging each other to protect our home jobs. Our exit vote is already seeing EU leaders acknowledge that a massive change is necessary within the EU which can only be for the good of the people left in it. UK Leave voters have done more in the last 36 hours to change things in the EU for the good of the people than 40+ years of debate participation. I am proud to say that it looks like I will have significantly helped the vast majority of my European neighbours even if it will mean some short term hardship for myself.

You haven't helped them whatsoever, they wanted to come here and get a job, you've stopped them doing that!

 

EU never did anything good? Just one example, I look forward to choking to death on NOx fumes, the UK government has done little to bring pollution levels down, it was the EU doing that for us. You think the Tories give a damn about such petty things like public health?

 

EU never did anything good? Just one example, I look forward to choking to death on NOx fumes

 

Ehh... the EU has a serious perversion for diesel cars...

Ehh... the EU has a serious perversion for diesel cars...

True, that's a separate issue though. It's things like measured city pollution limits I'm talking about.

 

Besides, now that we know diesel's are quite bad, who do you think will be the ones to clamp down on them? The UK government doesn't care pollution levels are several times above safe limits, they don't give a damn

[ATTACH=CONFIG]98652[/ATTACH]

 

From discussions this morning it won't be Boris. The Conservative party don't like him much at present as they see him as a back stabber that's divided the party utterly. They also think they will cease to be electable due to the post result back lash from the remain campaign.

 

Trump is a possibility and on purely selfish terms we'd do better neogations wise with him than if Obama were remaining in office. I believe he will be genuinely harmful to the U.S. a crash in the dollar that saw strength to the Euro and Pound can only be good for us presently. Although it's worth pointing out that most of the markets are back to where they were on Monday.

Why do I have a sneaky feeling that there will be something, someone, an old ancient forgotten rule that says it was too close to call and as such, there should be a new vote ?

 

I just don't trust any of them !! And just to set the story straight, not everyone in Scotland voted to remain because they wanted to stay in Europe !

I voted leave, and I voted no to Independence at the last referendum. My sig sums it up really........

 

Alan.........

Edited June 25, 20169 yr by bigmincey

Yeah I can see something nice and undemocratic happening.

 

What I genuinely cannot get with those in Scotland so determined to live Britian is what they plan to achieve. The argument as I understand it is that London doesn't understand them and because they are out numbered they cannot govern themselves fully. Now the whole being detached from London thing is a nationwide issue, unless your in London you don't really feel part of it, especially if your not in the South east of England. Equally getting rid of the middle Man just makes you an even smaller voice in a group of 27 countries.

 

Surely democratically for Scotland the best option is to remain the UK and push for equal democratic power over themselves, same for the English, Welsh etc. Scotland on its own in Europe wouldn't be a very big player and as we know even when your the second biggest economy in the group are you get overruled and ignored.

Just read about this.

We work hand in hand with the French border control people and we are at the moment allowed to carry passport checks and police our border in Calais in conjunction with the French.

Hence the migrant camps over there.

The French Government have suggested that on leaving the EU we should man our own borders at the point of entry, Dover.

So if these migrants manage to get on a ferry and get to England, we then refuse entry, but we can't send them back to France as they are not French citizens, and France will refuse them entry.

So we could potentially see the migrant camp in Calais move to Dover.

 

Irony - Not just something that is metallic!

The French have been threatening to do that since the thing started. Nothing new there.

The French have been threatening to do that since the thing started. Nothing new there.

 

plus its a lot easier to police the narrow end of the funnel or it should be:rolleyes:

plus its a lot easier to police the narrow end of the funnel or it should be:rolleyes:

 

If they cared that much they'd do a better job of intercepting them on there way.

Just read about this.

We work hand in hand with the French border control people and we are at the moment allowed to carry passport checks and police our border in Calais in conjunction with the French.

Hence the migrant camps over there.

The French Government have suggested that on leaving the EU we should man our own borders at the point of entry, Dover.

So if these migrants manage to get on a ferry and get to England, we then refuse entry, but we can't send them back to France as they are not French citizens, and France will refuse them entry.

So we could potentially see the migrant camp in Calais move to Dover.

 

Irony - Not just something that is metallic!

 

Wasn't there something about them settling in the nearest country to where they entered the EU?

Surely then we can return them to France as it is part of the EU and we will be until at least 2 years time?

Other than that we have passport checks for everyone as they boards anything to come to the UK...... show your passport getting on the ferry, train, etc??

No passport, not getting on!

This is what has annoyed me for years, Various countries letting anyone cross borders without a passport. The EU has free passage for EU citizens from one country to another, yet they allow people without passports or valid ID to manage to cross every border as it means they aren't staying in their country.

With all the money countries give in aid, why not say "we'll help you with £200 million of aid to rebuild your country, but it will be us organising the building, water, electricity, etc. and giving your skilled people of your country the money as a wage to do it."

If we helped actually give people jobs, tools and supplies to rebuild their own country rather than just handing over money to their Government, surely this would be a better option to make sure we actually help the people and they aren't forced to travel the distances they do to try to find a better life?

Our steel industry supplies the steel to rebuild and our government pays our companies...... win win!

We supply all the materials from our own industries....

By doing this it might stop their need to leave their families, homes and lives in the first place....?

 

I personally am sick of paying huge amounts to various Governments to have them keep the money and the actual people needing the money getting a tiny piece of it after various people running the countries all take a piece for themselves, if the people ever actually see any of it at all.......!

Edited June 26, 20169 yr by veilside01702

Pretty much everyone in my close circle of friends is saying how they have been screwed over by this and that the country has been ruined, but I generally feel that it is an opportunity and a really exciting time to be alive. The pound will recover, we will make new trade agreements, and life will continue. I think it will be really interesting to see what happens to the EU, as they face real troubles. There is a clear transnational dislike of the EU as an organisation, and that says something.

 

For the record I don't think that our government do a bad job by any means and the people who are constantly bashing our government on social media do my head in. I do think that the media in general is painting a pretty bad picture generally, but I guess they are posting news that sells. Apparently no one read positive stories.... I am genuinely very hopeful that after we pay the short term price things will look up. Even if not much changes (which is probably wont our side of the water) at least when people are angry about the outcome of somethign they can no longer point the finger to the EU, we have to stand up and face our own issues.

The EU has free passage for EU citizens from one country to another, yet they allow people without passports or valid ID to manage to cross every border as it means they aren't staying in their country.

 

That's not quite correct. Open borders within the EU means that ANYONE entitled to be in the EU (either by being a EU citizen or via having a Schengen visa) is free to move about it as they please. Borders exist, as they do when entering or exiting the UK because we are not party to the Schengen agreement (we opted out along with Ireland as well as us having the choice to opt out of the Euro - in fact we got almost everything we wanted from the EU when our own bills were passed). So the only real EU borders are those round their coast territorial waters and then obviously those bordering non EU states.

Edited June 26, 20169 yr by Funkysi

I agree Si

 

If they deaprt the EU without valid entry permits for their destination then they can be sent back. If France tried to send them to us in those circumstances they are breaking their own rules !

Why would you think they'd deliberately send them to us? :confused:

Obviously this is the hot topic of conversation at the moment and it is so huge it is difficult to avoid talking about it.

We had some friends over last night, and after agreeing that fisticuffs was not the way forward we had a discussion that raised a couple of interesting points I felt.

I will reiterate my previous post where I said we live in a democracy and I am grateful for that and the fact is I was out voted and I respect that.

So the following is not sour grapes more points I felt were worthy of some thought and discussion.

My friends voted out by the way, one is adamant that he made the right call, the other is now not so sure.

1. It seems in the media that many people are coming forward and saying "ooops". I appreciate you only see what the media wants you to see. However the suggestion was floated that the information is available to contact everyone who voted and allow them (only them) to participate in a second "are you sure" vote.

2. Annoyingly this wasn't my comment, "if you require some dental work done you don't go to your mate round the corner, you go to an expert. So why did we not allow the experts to make this decision?"

3. The petition that everyone is signing ( states that if the turnout is less than 75% and the majority is less than 60% of the turnout the a second referendum should be held), and it was set up nearly a month before the actual vote! Only has any democratic meaning if more people sign it than actually voted to leave as other wise it's just the "remain" camp trying to overturn the process.

As I said I just thought these were interesting points that were worth posting, my personal stance is I was outvoted in a democratic process so I accept that and now want to make the new situation work.

This "in or out" succeeded in only 1 thing yet: dividing the people in two camps, even friends.

This "in or out" succeeded in only 1 thing yet: dividing the people in two camps, even friends.

 

dont agree..i have friends who voted in and out. They are still my friends and me theres and ime sure that goes for millions of people.The ones who no longer want to be your friends after this then off load them asap as they were the enemy within:thumbdown:

dont agree..i have friends who voted in and out. They are still my friends and me theres and ime sure that goes for millions of people.The ones who no longer want to be your friends after this then off load them asap as they were the enemy within:thumbdown:

 

Well, that's how it is presented to us by the media, just like some must think there's a civil war going on in Belgium between Flemish and Walloon people :-)

I must have been mis-informed then :cool3: