Hmmm something bad seems to have happened with the replacement engine I got fitted

 

There didn't appear to be any problem when I picked the car up.

 

The engine sounds OK and it seems to run OK however when I drove it back yesterday my friend who was following me said it was smoking a lot just from the near side exhaust but I didn't notice as the car felt like it was running fine

 

This seems to have gotten worse today when ticking over the nearside ehxaust is 'splutterring' a bit like there is an intermittent misfire on that side and when you rev it you get copious amounts of white smoke from that exhaust - and I mean plenty of it!!

 

I popped to the garage across the road and they had a look and revved it quite a bit and said they thought it was a turbo but could not explain the splutterring so then they said it could be 'just about anything' which wasn't very helpful

 

I parked up outside the house for 15 mins and then asked the missus to rev the car so i could put some video up here and now it seems to be smoking a lot from both exhausts like it just got worse in those 15 mins

 

The guy from next door came out (who also runs a garage) and claimed it is both turbos because if you compress the intercooler pipes with your fingers then rev the engine it should force the pipes back out again against your fingers. You do feel a little pressure 'kick' when holding the intercooler pipes compressed and revving but he says it is not enough

 

I'm not sure this guy knows what he is talking about or not but I must admit when you rev the engine the guage on the boost controller does not go positive it goes from -70 to about 0. I would have to run the car on the road and watch the guage to be certain

 

Any suggestions please, no doubt when I take the car the few miles to Trentham on Sunday (so it can sit there looking pretty even if it is turned off so it don't smoke) I will have 19 more opinions as to what is wrong with my car now :huh: so I may as well ask here first

 

I'll upload the video if I can remember my youtube login lol

 

Rich

Edited June 14, 201312 yr by dicky96

Noel did say he would get back to me with a date to map the car but I guess he is a busy bunny right now

Don't take this over fuelling to lightly mate, my last engine was killed because of this. Got past the rings, thinned the oil, KO.

Engine bay photo?

@Eggs

OK m8. I was hoping Noel would get back to me soon TBH

 

 

About this over fuelling thing. I did a 230 mile round trip today - filled the car to the top before I went and still have pretty much bang on half a tank on the guage. I'll go and fill the tank back to the top tomorrow and see how much she really used. Will that give a good idea if it is over fuelling? It was pretty much 85% motorway run with a bit of 'A' road run out in the sticks- but I was never stopped in traffic

 

Rich

No not at all, the only way would be a proper AFR reading, to many factors involved. Chase Noel up tomorrow

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Coil pack brackets look great BTW, give us a full engine bay shot

Noel did say he would get back to me with a date to map the car but I guess he is a busy bunny right now

 

Indeed, catching up on other things right now :)

 

Not doing any mapping this week, one day next week should be OK.

Engine bay photo?

 

:headvswal

Just doing some more work under there and then will give you some shots

Dicky has sent me a pic of his engine so ile pass it on

The deletes really free up the engine bay and make it so much easier to work on.

The deletes really free up the engine bay and make it so much easier to work on.

 

:rofl::rofl:

PMSL why didn't I tihink of doing that? How many hampsters does it have (seeing as horses would not fit in there without a bit of a squeeze)

 

Rich

The deletes really free up the engine bay and make it so much easier to work on.

Did someone say mikey supplied it............ROFL

Did someone say mikey supplied it............ROFL

 

yea and took three days to fit it:w00t:

Well a couple of months have gone by and a lot has happened since I posted so it's time to resurrect this big thread!

 

To recap - the last update was towards the end of July :

 

After Zedworld looked at my car again free of charge in July they swapped one of the turbos (the nearside) and the car was still producing huge amounts of smoke from the nearside exhuset even with the turbo changed. They fitted one of the turbos from my old engine (I actually gave them both the old turbos but they only changed one for whatever reason

 

On collecting my car Jeff told me there was still a lot of oil in the cats from the faulty turbo, though they had drained what they could, and the smoke may go away after a couple hundred miles

 

After running up to Prescot for a barbeque meet and giving the car a good blast, the next day I found the big clouds of smoke had gone.

 

Then I took the car on a 230 mile round trip. It was not using anywhere near as much oil now and I wasn't getting smoke, apart from if I boosted the car hard-ish. The Harder I boosted it the bigger the ball of smoke it would produce on gear change - all this I previously posted.......

 

Znut and a couple others who had looked at the car on the Prescot meet tell me it is massively overfueling and it was suggested that I contact Noz to get the car remapped. This I did and got a price for the remap

 

Now we are up to speed with the history so.....

 

I got a quote for remap but didn't get chance to pursue it because....

 

Then I got a call from Steve at Silverline in Cannock on 3rd August, he spent quite a lot of time on the phone with me discussing the various issues and offered to look at my car so I took it down to him on the 7th. He had a look at the car, and said to be honest it wasn't running very well, although the engine sounded fine.

 

Steve then followed me while I took the car for a run so he could see what was happening when I was on boost. It turns out I was doing a pretty fine imitation of the Red Devils from the offside exhaust - and the reason.... blown turbo seals.

 

As it was the Shugborough meet on the 11th August (which I had organised and obviously wanted to attend) and the car was running OK as long as I kept it off boost, I gently took the car to the show and back and then back down to Silverline on the 13th. At this point the smoke on the offside ehaust had got quite a bit worse.

 

Steve changed the turbo for my other old one (this is the one Zedworld did not change when they offered to fix my problems free of charge) and he also gave the car a thorough check over. Now quite a few interesting things came to light....

 

The offside turbo he jsut removed was completely trashed - there were bits of impeller lying in the bottom of the housnig! Now considering that the replacememnt engine I got from Noz came with two turbos that were supposedly good this raised a few questions as to why both had failed (one changed by Zedworld, one by Silverline)

 

His best theories were that either

 

A: The turbos were pretty much scrap when I bought them

B: The turbos were not properly primed with oil when the new engine was fitted before running

C: That the turbos came from a car which had cats fitted and mine does not, so the increased pressure differential (no back pressure on my car) caused the seals to fail

 

Now if you have been following all this from the beginning, this engine was previously seen running by Noz and also other members on here and they all tell me it ran fine with no smoke so that kind of makes A: seem unlikely.

 

C: could not be right, I said, as Jeff told me he had to leave my exhusts up on end over the weekend to drain all the oil out of the cats.

 

That's when an interesting fact came to light - my car does not have cats fitted!!

 

So that seems to leave B: or C: as the likely causes of the turbo failures. And me puzzled why I had been told the cats were full of oil.....

 

Also a few more things were found.....

 

There is a massive oil leak from the rear of the rocker cover which is dripping down onto the nearside turbo.

 

Nothing to do with this problem directly - but the Viscous fan has some very serious cracks in it and could let go at any time soon. I'm suprised no one spotted that before and let me know I should replace it.

 

There were several small vacuum lines which were leaking or split near the ends

 

Cylinder 4 had a misfire problem, worse at tickover when it was not firing at all, once running it was kinda 'half firing'

 

All the coil pack connectors were pretty much scrap

 

The compression tests were not 180 all round as previously stated - I don't have the actual results (Silverline probably does) but compression was within spec

 

There is very little or anything wrong with the replacement engine itself (certainly not had blasting sand go through it trashing seals and rings etc)

 

And yes, the car is heavily over fuelling

 

 

 

 

OK so I got my car back ready for the Shardlow meet 25th August, albeit with the above problems still there. After changing the drivers side turbo and fixing the Red Devil smoketrails Steve at Silverline also noted that there was some amounts of blue smoke coming from the nearside exhaust but this could be due to the misfire on cylinder 4. I arranged to take my car back to him at the end of the following week as I was going on hols to Spain and agreed for the coil pack connectors to be replaced and have a new set of coilpacks and plugs (I had a mix of two different sorts in mine), and while I was at it I took Steve's recommendation to fit 'yellow back' coilpacks - then see if the misfire went away

 

At Shardlow I had a chat with Mark and also Slick Pete as they were there, about what Steve had found, and they also both looked at the car.

 

While discussing with Mark about the failure of the near side turbo and the three possible reasons, he explained to me that turbos do not need to be primed with oil. He tells me as soon as you turn the ignition the first time, oil will instantly flow through the turbos and 'prime them'.

 

All agreed on the day that I did have a misfire on Cylinder 4 (hardly firing at tick over-but firing moreso when driving) and various reasons were put forward - one from Pete that I could have a 'lazy injector'

 

After the Shardlow meet I took the car back to Silverline at the end of August. One big concern now was that the smoke trail fron the nearside exhaust (the side Mark swapped the turbo for my old one) had come back again when I boosted hard then changed gear. I had done less than 100 miles.

 

Steve had the car three weeks - I just got it back last Friday. He fitted the yellow backs and plugs, and replaced all the old coil pack connectors. Also he found several more small vacuum pipes in very poor condition and replaced these. This has fixed the misfire issue and the car is running better than it ever has!!! But.....

 

The smoke trail from the nearside exhaust is because the turbo on that side has failed again!! - this is the old turbos from my original engine that Mark swapped.

 

Best guess as to why this should also fail. Steve tells me 'turbo not primed with oil when fitted'. The offside one which Steve swapped is fine. I am getting confliciting advice on this oil priming issue, whether turbos need to be primed after fitting. I'm not a mechanic so don't know which is correct

 

 

 

So this is where I am now....

 

I need to get the rocker cover oil leak fixed.

 

I need to get the viscous fan changed before it goes throug hthe radiator! (actually I already bought a suitable 14" electric one from ebay (second hand sold by someone on here I believe) and am ordering an Aluminium performance radioator from Japspeed

 

And I need to replace the nearside turbo yet again!!! That will be the third one in as many months!

 

Seems I have a few choices here now -

 

1. Swap both turbos for brand new and may as well get some bigger ones while I am at it as I intend to do induction/exhaust/engine upgrades over the next year

 

2. Get one of my faulty turbos refurbed, or get a new core for it, to get me out of this mess for now, and upgrade the turbos later when I rebuild my spare engine

 

3. Anyone on here got a known good second hand nearside turbo for sale? And can I trust a second hand one?

 

I'm really undecided how to proceed..... advice welcome

 

Sorry for a very very long post but a couple folks asked me for a full update

 

Rich

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by dicky96

It's imperative to allow oil pressure to build before running an engine that has been stood. Priming is essential.

think your getting a little confused on the information been said to you ..

 

I never said there is no point in Pre priming turbos when fitted

was talking about oil flow and all ready in the engine

yes oil is fed to the turbos all most insistently but all ways

pre prime or Cold crank the engine 3 or 4 times before starting

Hence still Priming the engine

 

the Main problem u had was Just fitting Used turbos ... really you should of had them reconditioned as you knew that there was a good possible chance of leaking oil and smoking

and its not nice doing a Job 3 times

 

A: The turbos were pretty much scrap when I bought them

B: The turbos were not properly primed with oil when the new engine was fitted before running

C: That the turbos came from a car which had cats fitted and mine does not, so the increased pressure differential (no back pressure on my car) caused the seals to fail

 

Now if you have been following all this from the beginning, this engine was previously seen running by Noz and also other members on here and they all tell me it ran fine with no smoke so that kind of makes A: seem unlikely.

 

C: could not be right, I said, as Jeff told me he had to leave my exhusts up on end over the weekend to drain all the oil out of the cats.

 

That's when an interesting fact came to light - my car does not have cats fitted!!

 

So that seems to leave B: or C: as the likely causes of the turbo failures. And me puzzled why I had been told the cats were full of oil.....

 

 

When seals fail due to reduced back pressure, it is nothing like the symptoms your car had. The turbo suffered catastrophic bearing failure.

 

The turbos were spot on when I bought the car from Ken, with the engine being removed maybe a week later and delivered to you straight away (can't remember the exact timescale).

 

I once fitted an old Cosworth T3 that had been lying around in dry storage for a couple of years, and that survived 6 months at 1.5 bar before the bearings went.

 

So how many turbos have failed now? What turbos are on the engine now (can't quite follow where it's at I'm afraid). If it's happening with your other turbos from your own engine, I would suspect oil delivery issues if turbos keep failing.

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by Noz

OK to clarify the facts

 

The replacement engine was fitted with the turbos still attached - let's call those the 'new' turbos for clarity and my original engine's turbos the 'old' ones

 

I asked Jeff to select the best of the four turbos (the ones on the replacement engine and the ones on my old engine) Maybe he did that and selected the 'new' ones that came with the engine from Noz, I don't know, but those were the ones that were fitted. I do know in two years of previous ownership I never had any problem (smoke or otherwise) with my old turbos.

 

Of the 'new' turbos, the nearside one failed immediately me driving back to Stoke, it was so bad after 60 miles I had to get the car trailered back to Zedwrold

 

Mark changed that one for my old nearside turbo - I don't know why only one was changed, Jeff asked me to give them both old turbos. This job was done Free of Charge

 

There was still a lot of smoke - the worse of this cleared after a good run up to Prescot a few days later

 

Then a couple days later after a 230 mile round trip to Leeds and Nottingham the 'new' offside turbo failed

 

That one was changed by Silverline who fitted my remaining old turbo. And he suggested the possible reasons. At this time I found out my car has no cats fitted though I was previously told at Zedworld that the (non existant) cats were 'full of oil' and had been left to drain for a weekend and the remainder still needed to be burnt off. I am now completely puzzled why I was told this!

 

After another 100 miles the nearside turbo failed again - this was my 'old' one that Mark fitted

 

The offside turbo that Silverline fitted (my other 'old' one) is still working fine

 

Steve tells me he primed the turbo he fitted and this is necessary, Mark you did tell me turbos did not need to be primed because oil flows immediately the first time you start the engine

 

All I know is the nearside one has now failed twice, the offside one failed once and is now OK with my old turbo fitted.

 

I'm simply stating the facts and not conjecture because I am not an expert in this field

 

Rich

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by dicky96

Oh and there was an oil leak on the nearside turbo that Mark had changed - I am not sure exactly the nature of the leak or whether it contributed to the failure of the second nearside turbo (one of my old ones). Silverline fixed the oil leak so could probably say exactly what it was, but unfortunately the turbo is no good now

 

By the way Noz, the 'new' offside turbo that Silverline changed for my old one - that had also suffered catastrophic failure after the 230 mile run... there were bits of impeller blades in the housing and you could wagggle the remainder around in the bearings

Edited September 24, 201312 yr by dicky96
additional info

Bloody hell Rich you have went through the mill mate. All I can say is that I hope you get it all sorted soon. A lot of people would of given up long ago so keep at it mate.

Ahh.......The joys of fitting 2nd hand parts.........

Ahh.......The joys of fitting 2nd hand parts.........

 

indeed

Ahh.......The joys of fitting 2nd hand parts.........

 

Ide go along with that Daz iff just banged on and drove but most bits i buy are used and iff checked out before fitment can give good service with a smile for many miles:yes:

Ide go along with that Daz iff just banged on and drove but most bits i buy are used and iff checked out before fitment can give good service with a smile for many miles:yes:

 

Agreed Bri-but not with tubs........wobbling a shaft (ooeerr) tells you nowt!:wink: