300zx club second referendum on Brexit. Are you in or out?

PM resigns in tearfull speech. :(

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/indepth/theresa-may-resignation-how-pms-three-year-premiership-was-dominated-by-failed-attempts-to-deliver-brexit/ar-AABQxY7?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=ientp_edu

I voted under protest as I believe they are all lying, cheating, two faced, back stabbing, self serving, pocket lining......... in short....... Politicians!!!

 

If there was someone I actually believed wasn't all of the above it would have helped........

 

The only certainty is that 'Politicians Lie', 'Answer questions with spin and avoidance', 'serve themselves'.........

PM resigns in tearfull speech. :(

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/indepth/theresa-may-resignation-how-pms-three-year-premiership-was-dominated-by-failed-attempts-to-deliver-brexit/ar-AABQxY7?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=ientp_edu

 

Yup - sad, but in all honesty, she had no choice. I believe she was genuine, in her apparent pride in serving the country; and she stepped up to the mark in 2016 when no-one else was up to the job. Even though she was on a hiding to nothing.

 

The PM has done the right thing; and, hopefully, the government will see sense select someone who will keep Corbyn out, before it's too late. Whether or not Brexit will be disastrous for Britain remains to be seen - and I am still not sold on the predictions of doom and gloom if we leave the EU.... But Corbyn as PM and McDonnell as Chancellor, not to mention that useless bint Abbot as Home secretary?? We'd all be doomed for sure - might as well move to a gulag in Siberia:mad:

Edited May 24, 20196 yr by RichardS

I voted under protest as I believe they are all lying, cheating, two faced, back stabbing, self serving, pocket lining......... in short....... Politicians!!!

 

If there was someone I actually believed wasn't all of the above it would have helped........

 

The only certainty is that 'Politicians Lie', 'Answer questions with spin and avoidance', 'serve themselves'.........

 

Sad but true Russ - Career politicians, all of them. Long gone are the days, when people went into politics later in life, to serve the nation....

 

….And in other news, Vince Cable has resigned as leader of the Lib Dems. I know, I hardly noticed either...:lol:

This is our best chance.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Perfect time to bring back spitting image !

 

Euro elections fail for Tories and Labour but guess who did well.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/politics/brexit-party-euro-election-results-nigel-farage-eyes-general-election-as-tories-and-labour-slump/ar-AABYw5x?ocid=ientp_edu

Euro elections fail for Tories and Labour but guess who did well.

 

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/politics/brexit-party-euro-election-results-nigel-farage-eyes-general-election-as-tories-and-labour-slump/ar-AABYw5x?ocid=ientp_edu

 

It was just as predicted, in all honesty! Still it made me chuckle how the left-wing press reported that the "remainers" had actually won - by adding together the votes of Labour, Lib-Dem, SNP, Plaid Cymru, The Greens - and pretty much every one else; vs those for the Brexit Party plus the Conservatives... Really?? I suspect that circa 50% of Labour and 50% of Conservative voters would have been split between leaving and remaining in the EU.....:wink:

 

Gotta love The Guardian and their little idiosyncrasies…:lol:

They only looked like they were doing well as all the voters that would have normally voted UKIP, voted for the Brexit party and that blithering idiot and career liar Farage. :lol: UKIP went in reverse, BIG STYLE

So 29 people from a party with no manifesto, elected as a protest vote, are now being paid £7,599.14 per month of our tax payers money until we leave the EU.

No responsibility, no repercussions and actually no say in what actually happens in Brexit as none of them actually sit in our Parliament.

 

Here's a direct quote from Farage

"I know how to butter my own bread"

 

Now I voted remain, but i lost and I accept that, that's democracy after all, and had we left in 2016 then fair enough. We would be currently fudging our way through the lies and untruths that have since come to light, fair enough!

 

BUT!

 

We haven't left yet, and the cold hard fact of the matter is that the Brexit that was promised in 2016 does not and cannot ever exist.

Knowing now what we do i firmly believe we should have a second referendum.

As far as what Brexit means not only has the game changed, the pitch has been moved and someone has nicked the ball.

 

I am not totally against Brexit (although my personal belief is that it's a mistake), if we voted for it the we should do it.

What I am dead set against, and i believe any sane person should be, is pushing through a Brexit which is nothing like the one voted for or worse a no deal Brexit.

 

Referendum or remain is the only sane choice at the moment.

 

Keep in mind the people advocating no deal are the ones set to financially benefit from it.

 

We are 18 miles from the largest economic block in the world and it's buying power.

We have voted to separate from it, which I sort of understand with the wish to go it alone, but we have just voted to piss it off, which i really don't get.

 

When we leave and automatically default to WTO rules our exports will be subject to tariffs making them less competitive.

The ruling Government is then faced with a stark choice, place tariffs on imports to help UK industry and thus making the cost of living rise or no tariffs keeping the cost of living down but crippling UK industry.

 

The truth of the elections are that we are still a divided nation currently a single issue political system.

Everything is about Brexit.

It needs to stop.

As the old saying goes "there are lies damned lies and statistics"

 

I don't wish for a second referendum because I hope the vote will be different, I want it because I believe so much has changed we should have the chance to be absolutely sure before we undertake possibly the biggest economic and political change since we joined in 1973. Most of us have lived our entire lives in the common market we have no memories other than that so how do we know what it will be like.

 

I actually have a memory of the last enforced power cut in early 1973 thinking my Dad was amazing rigging up a car battery to give light in the house when the power went out.

 

Strange times people.

Edited May 28, 20196 yr by Pebkau

Well, for my money we shouldf do a deal on WTO terms with a big BUT ! The But is that we could set ZERO tarrifs for euopean trade if they would do the same. That would solve the both customs union and the Irish problem .

 

Then they would cry that trade we were doing with the rest of the world would allow those goods free into the EU. So we would have to give undertakings and clearly state the origins of goods. Perhaps as paperwork, but better to have an electroninic audit trail so there can be no arguement. The airlines have to do it with parts for planes so it's not that difficult to do.

 

But Someone has to DO something

Agree Tony someone need`s to do something, what that is however who knows?? it has fast become so complex and uncertain its an unknown quantity and added to that each and every party has become so entrenched in it`s own agenda there is simply no party or individual that have the ability to see this through on their own, at some point stay or leave with or without a deal the one`s at the sharp end need to find some common ground and fast!

 

That said, the damage is done now to the UK`s world trading negotiations, I mean if anyone or any country want to play hard ball they will, because they know they can now, I have no affiliation to a particular party, I mean they are all much of a muchness now, but certain characters faults are hard to ignore and this is where politics falls down, voting and allegiance to a party can be and is as fickle as liking what one leader wears or what one leader voice sounds like and so on.

 

The ruination of the nation started with the assumption that the UK ( United Kingdom ) was just that, united. Wrong!

 

Let us see, Scotland voted to leave the English, they don`t get on basically, the Welsh assembly often do not recognise Westminster rulings, they don`t get on basically and the Houses of Parliament take great delight in reminding both the Scottish people and the Welsh people that they are second and third best, United Kingdom ...My arse !!!!!! oh and not forgetting Ireland of course !!

 

Look at the pics below, is that a United Kingdom ? is it? NO! and there in lies the problem

 

The damage the B word has done to the UK is unmeasurable, whilst Parliament has battled out the negotiations what has been happening to the usual normal run of the mill work, side lined, put back, there must be a mountain of unresolved papers to be heard in the house from local MP`s on local matters that have just not been possible to do, if anyone thinks leaving / stopping with or without a deal is the end of it are very misled, it will just be the start...:sad:

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

Well, for my money we shouldf do a deal on WTO terms with a big BUT ! The But is that we could set ZERO tarrifs for euopean trade if they would do the same. That would solve the both customs union and the Irish problem .

 

 

This is the problem that most people haven't got their heads around ( no disrespect Tony, but people just don't realise)

 

Zero tariffs on both sides of the border doesn't work.

The idea of tariffs are to level the playing field for the consumer so both foreign made and domestic made products compete on an equal footing.

Due to a variety of factors such as local taxation, labour cost exchange rate etc the cost to produce essentially the same product in different countries will vary vastly.

This is where tariffs come in, we may import something and add a tariff or not to make the final retail price "fair" it's the same when we export.

So we might import product X add 25%, but we might make the equivalent product and when exported it has no tariff on it to make the price fair at both ends.

 

So firstly you have to get on with the people you are trading with, then most crucially you have to negotiate the tariffs on every single item to be traded.

This is why it takes a huge amount of time, and of course it's never exactly right at the first pass and is constantly under review.

A perfect example of this is the fact that although we joined the EU in 1973 "booze cruises" to Calais and individuals importing UK spec cars from European countries, because of the savings to be made, were commonplace until the early 2000's.

It took that long to get the balance right!

 

Nancy Pelosi has stated that even if the Republicans get in for a second term, the UK still might not see a finalised post Brexit trade deal within that administration due to the work involved.

Of course if there is a change of ruling party, the some of the negotiations would have to restart.

 

In addition there is no country in the world that trades exclusively under WTO rules.

They are the default position and the best of a bad job.

Imagine its raining you have to drive to work, your choices are the car with no brakes or the car with completely bald tires.

That's WTO rules.

Some of you will get to work!

 

The comments that these politicians make about countries knocking down our door to make deals after Brexit may or may not be true, but when the deals will take years, and in some cases tens of years to finalise, does being first in the queue really make a difference?

This is the problem that most people haven't got their heads around ( no disrespect Tony, but people just don't realise)

 

Zero tariffs on both sides of the border doesn't work.

The idea of tariffs are to level the playing field for the consumer so both foreign made and domestic made products compete on an equal footing.

Due to a variety of factors such as local taxation, labour cost exchange rate etc the cost to produce essentially the same product in different countries will vary vastly.

This is where tariffs come in, we may import something and add a tariff or not to make the final retail price "fair" it's the same when we export.

So we might import product X add 25%, but we might make the equivalent product and when exported it has no tariff on it to make the price fair at both ends.

 

So firstly you have to get on with the people you are trading with, then most crucially you have to negotiate the tariffs on every single item to be traded.

This is why it takes a huge amount of time, and of course it's never exactly right at the first pass and is constantly under review.

A perfect example of this is the fact that although we joined the EU in 1973 "booze cruises" to Calais and individuals importing UK spec cars from European countries, because of the savings to be made, were commonplace until the early 2000's.

It took that long to get the balance right!

 

Nancy Pelosi has stated that even if the Republicans get in for a second term, the UK still might not see a finalised post Brexit trade deal within that administration due to the work involved.

Of course if there is a change of ruling party, the some of the negotiations would have to restart.

 

In addition there is no country in the world that trades exclusively under WTO rules.

They are the default position and the best of a bad job.

Imagine its raining you have to drive to work, your choices are the car with no brakes or the car with completely bald tires.

That's WTO rules.

Some of you will get to work!

 

The comments that these politicians make about countries knocking down our door to make deals after Brexit may or may not be true, but when the deals will take years, and in some cases tens of years to finalise, does being first in the queue really make a difference?

 

I think that you can choose not to impose the WHO tarriff if you want to. In Fact Mrs May offered that. So, if we would take no tarriff on European exports to us, and they in turn offered No Tarriffs on our exports to them, isn't that the same, in effect, as a customs union? What I'm thinking is this would then solve the Irish Border problem.

 

The only problem I see with this is goods coming from say USA, that we had acquired with or without a trading agreement could not be reexprted to the EU. They would have to negotiate their own terms with the USA.

 

I make further investigations into this

What an almighty mess we have, brought on by self serving politicians and a week government. I hoped Boris the bold would have got Brexit moving forward but now he has been stalled by politicians not wanting to carry out the will of the people. I now look forward to a General Election and a strong vote for the Brexit Party. With the hope that Nigel Farage and Boris can work together on making this country of ours great again.

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/boris-johnson/news/106367/nigel-farage-offers-boris

Say goodbye to Human Rights and Hello to USA owned NHS.

Nigel Farage and his Brexit party are the stuff of nightmares.

My prediction, which has played out pretty much to the tee so far, is that this procrastination and subversive behaviour will continue in Parliament. Despite a referendum choice to leave and MPs voting 6-1 to respect that vote a lack of ability to compromise and get on with things will lead to the following out come. A general election. This will be won, particularly if they replace Jeremy Corbyn by Labour, probably a minority government propped up by a remain party. A second referdum will be run and people will be “educated to vote the right way”. Long range forecast this will create a few years of false prosperity and inflation among with increased national debt. When Germany slips into recession and triggers a Eurozone crisis the national debt will be too high and the UK will return to recession.

That in my opinion is the most likely direction of things.

 

As a side note the NHS leave or remain will not remain as it is, the model is unsustainable and the system is coping with 1000 things it was never set up to be for. If we leave it will see further privitisation and if we remain we will move to a more aligned position with EU countries such as France where they have a subsidised system, ie it will cost you a tenner a pop to see your GP.

I fear you’re right, Stephen. But hope to god you’re wrong. A labour government ran by Jeremy Corbyn and Dianne Abbott... now that’s nightmarish to me.

 

But I can’t see Brexit happening. Which is a complete farce IMO.

 

Leave or not, deal or not... I just want it over with already. Although preferably without resulting in Corbyn as PM :hang:

Nigel Farage and his Brexit party are the stuff of nightmares.

 

I was never a fan of Nigel Farage but he is the only one left who talks what I want and think. A Conservative/Brexit pack is now the way to go. imo.

Anyone read this !!

 

https://www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2019/08/gdp-ons-brc-uk-now-one-quarter-away-from-recession/

[emoji38]

 

Sent from some app that I don't know how to use!

I was never a fan of Nigel Farage but he is the only one left who talks what I want and think. A Conservative/Brexit pack is now the way to go. imo.

 

Really!?

 

Farage is an absolute sham. Beats the leave drum giving all sorts of false promises and almost soon as the results of the referendum are known, vanishes almost entirely for 6 months with absolutely no plan of action, this is before we discuss all the undisclosed gifts he received from party donors. He's no better than Boris; it's a horror story, nothing short of.

 

No thanks! and not thanks to Corbyn either!

Really!?

 

Farage is an absolute sham. Beats the leave drum giving all sorts of false promises and almost soon as the results of the referendum are known, vanishes almost entirely for 6 months with absolutely no plan of action, this is before we discuss all the undisclosed gifts he received from party donors. He's no better than Boris; it's a horror story, nothing short of.

 

No thanks! and not thanks to Corbyn either!

 

You have to go with one Si Red Corbyn Boris the Bold or Farage :biggrin:

Corbyn the communist, Farage the fraud or Boris the buffoon? Great line up......for a firing squad.

 

I'd rather vote for an independent than place a cross next to any of their names.