Posted September 8, 20168 yr Had a thought about turbo failure that I think may be interesting to discuss, we all have read the painful tales of woe here when your favourite toy starts smoking and the dreaded turbo failure hits you in the pocket. Having been around scene since it started I have read hundreds of such failures and yes in the early days they were mostly standard turbo`s on cars approaching say 100k miles and many having been subject to sketchy or careless servicing by previous owner`s. As the scene has taken its lead from the US many, many big build engines or just turbo changes have now been less likely to be rebuilt standard units but upgrades or hybrids from the US and such like. However the turbo failures seem to still occur, but the difference I see is if and when they do its never on 100k miles but way less some under 5k miles, also I read of standard rebuild units failing with low miles on too. So I guess what I am thinking is why do the original units even when badly serviced last so long when very expensive hybrids seem to have a failure rate of their own with way less miles on, and equally rebuilt units can fail it kind of begs the question is it better to buy new units from Nissan if available? even if the cost is way more expensive in the first instance, rebuilds simply do not seem to last so long and of course doing the job twice is always more expensive. Of course there is many variables that can effect the life of the turbo`s and as the original factory ones were fitted to a brand new engine that could be the key, but high quality engine rebuilds still can suffer from the dreaded turbo failure which seems madness. Of course there may be some who have rebuilt or big turbo`s here with no problem, but most zeds here do not do big miles any more so it can be difficult to be sure, has anyone done 100k on hybrids with no problems? Thoughts ?? Jeff
September 8, 20168 yr Thankfully jeff the turbos on mine are still fine on both my cars. I do more miles than most in both cars having used zebedee as a daily driver as well as going to shows for over 6 months. My white zed has 68k on the clock and zedebee just hit 90k. Admitedly i dont drive it like i stole it but i do follow a religeous oil change regime. Both cars get a good quality 10w-40 oil and K&N oil filter change every 3000 miles or just after each MOT which ever comes sooner. Sounds excessive but at 35 quid per car i dont think thats too much to pay. I also still have the cats fitted to both cars im not getting into the decat argument because the cars both perform more than adequately with them in place for me.
September 8, 20168 yr I think it also has to do with people trying to crank out 16psi on stock turbos and expecting them to be reliable.
September 8, 20168 yr The stock turbos aren't particularly expensive for what they are and they're still available new, so I don't see why you would replace them with anything else unless you want a major power boost. $1,800 from CZP right now.
September 8, 20168 yr Author I think it also has to do with people trying to crank out 16psi on stock turbos and expecting them to be reliable. Sorry you misunderstand, what I was saying is the standard original fit turbo`s seem to have a longer life than the expensive hybrid upgrade ones that are sold under the premise they are stronger, but its seems the opposite. Jeff - - - Updated - - - The stock turbos aren't particularly expensive for what they are and they're still available new, so I don't see why you would replace them with anything else unless you want a major power boost. $1,800 from CZP right now. Yep agree. Jeff - - - Updated - - - Thankfully jeff the turbos on mine are still fine on both my cars. I do more miles than most in both cars having used zebedee as a daily driver as well as going to shows for over 6 months. My white zed has 68k on the clock and zedebee just hit 90k. Admitedly i dont drive it like i stole it but i do follow a religeous oil change regime. Both cars get a good quality 10w-40 oil and K&N oil filter change every 3000 miles or just after each MOT which ever comes sooner. Sounds excessive but at 35 quid per car i dont think thats too much to pay. I also still have the cats fitted to both cars im not getting into the decat argument because the cars both perform more than adequately with them in place for me. Cannot fault your thinking there, much prefer to change the oil and filter too many times than anything else, to me its money in the bank. Jeff
September 8, 20168 yr Sorry you misunderstand, what I was saying is the standard original fit turbo`s seem to have a longer life than the expensive hybrid upgrade ones that are sold under the premise they are stronger, but its seems the opposite. Jeff - - - Updated - - - Yep agree. Jeff - - - Updated - - - Cannot fault your thinking there, much prefer to change the oil and filter too many times than anything else, to me its money in the bank. Jeff Well I would agree, but the stock turbos are nowhere near bulletproof either.
September 8, 20168 yr Well I would agree, but the stock turbos are nowhere near bulletproof either. Doesnt really matter if its std or uprated if you dont maintain it properly and push it outside its normal operating conditions its going to fail prematurely. Some forget these cars need "LOOKING AFTER" more than most.
September 8, 20168 yr Most people that swap out turbos do it to run higher boost, could that be a reason? Americans don't take care of their stuff. That can be a factor :-P Water-cooled and oilcooled also helps stock turbos live long. Not all aftermarket have that option. Poor oil return lines can make a turbo fail. Lots of factors
September 8, 20168 yr Trouble is your assuming they are "expensive hybrids" most aren't. In fact most are nothing special at all. Take the ever popular gt600 kit z1 sells, these are mearly gt2860 garret units fitted as standard to many cars including the S15 Silvia, simply re clocked with mods to drain ports etc. Whilst I do see rebuilds fail more regularly, I think maybe the failure rate of properly fitted Garrett units is pretty low. Failure of rebuilds is normally a direct result of the rebuild and importantly rebalance quality or the initial fault, excessive crank case pressure, blocked oil feed etc not properly rectified, just going in circles. Failure in new units is usually down to installation error.
September 8, 20168 yr Author Well I would agree, but the stock turbos are nowhere near bulletproof either. Never said they were, but, many last 100k and more before been changed, was asking if anyone has rebuild turbo`s or after market ones that have covered that mileage, can bet the answer is no. Jeff
September 8, 20168 yr My offering to this discussion is this, I work on a wide variety of cars every day of the week and therefore see many different engine types and turbo variations. We almost swap out a dead turbo weekly on one vehicle or another, some fairly high mileage but some very low mileage with good service history so it seems that turbo quality across the board seems to much lower than years gone by. My daily is a 1996 JDM HILUX SURF 3.0TD, it has nearly 200000km on the clock on the original turbo which still pulls strong with no smoke no oil usage and if and when I remove the intake pipe work it has zero oil inside. Every turbo car I work on at work has a huge amount of oil in the pipe work and intercooler it's shocking!
September 8, 20168 yr I personally don't think stuff manufactured now is anywhere near as strong or robust as stuff made years ago, this goes for turbos as well as many other things.
September 8, 20168 yr My offering to this discussion is this, I work on a wide variety of cars every day of the week and therefore see many different engine types and turbo variations. We almost swap out a dead turbo weekly on one vehicle or another, some fairly high mileage but some very low mileage with good service history so it seems that turbo quality across the board seems to much lower than years gone by. My daily is a 1996 JDM HILUX SURF 3.0TD, it has nearly 200000km on the clock on the original turbo which still pulls strong with no smoke no oil usage and if and when I remove the intake pipe work it has zero oil inside. Every turbo car I work on at work has a huge amount of oil in the pipe work and intercooler it's shocking! Oil in the pipework isnt indicative the turbo is failing.
September 8, 20168 yr ....And how many cars suffer premature turbo failure because the owners don't let their cars idle for a couple of minutes after a spirited drive...? I was talking to the service manager at my MB dealership when my car was last in. He was saying that he's seen MB replace a few failed turbos on the new A45amg for that very reason - in fact he believed it was down to the damn "start-stop" technology on today's "green" cars. Drivers are blasting up and down motorways - but as soon as they hit traffic and stop, the engine immediately shuts down, so no chance of that two minute idle idle! Naturally the engine start stop is not applicable to our cars - but the idle period is! For how long (before our careful ownership) did previous owners just switch off immediately after a high speed run? I have something to say............ It's better to burn out than to fade away..... :tt2:
September 8, 20168 yr Most aftermarket parts are nowhere near as good as the original,brake discs & exhausts are classic examples.Buy a new car the exhaust will last 10 years maybe,yet any replacement 3 years and its rotten !
September 8, 20168 yr Author Most aftermarket parts are nowhere near as good as the original,brake discs & exhausts are classic examples.Buy a new car the exhaust will last 10 years maybe,yet any replacement 3 years and its rotten ! Hit the nail on head there !! Jeff
September 9, 20168 yr Except most turbos aren't after market, they are original Garret products borrowed from other cars and made to fit?
September 9, 20168 yr Author Except most turbos aren't after market, they are original Garret products borrowed from other cars and made to fit? Why you tying to make an argument? its a simple discussion, anything that was not fitted as standard and is either an upgrade or a hybrid is in general referred to as "after market" Jeez talk about pedantic !! Jeff
September 9, 20168 yr Because your saying that anything aftermarket has a higher failure rate, the implication is that the quality is not the same as an OEM item. My point is it's an OEM item from another model, not reproduction tat. Ie what your saying is an untruth and misleading. If anything the question should be are Garret not the company they once were. I'm not being pedantic Jeff your implying that an orange is an apple simply because it's not in its original fruit bowl.
September 9, 20168 yr Author Because your saying that anything aftermarket has a higher failure rate, I was not saying anything after market has a high failure rate per se, I was commenting on what I have OBSERVED as we ALL have here, that original fit parts appear last longer than those fitted at rebuild time, and more often than not those parts are sold as "upgrades" to the standard item, so by that distinction you would expect them to be better, stronger and longer lasting, but in the real world it seems they are not. Jeff
September 9, 20168 yr My stock (original) turbos are still doing very nicely. They've been great and I've been running about 1 bar for nearly 6 years now. If I ever replace them, I'll be digging deep for a set of Power Enterprise PE1420 turbos. Very high quality and very low failure rate. These are true aftermarket turbos, but of extreme high quality.
September 9, 20168 yr That certainly seems to be the implication as far as I read it. If something isn't an upgrade because it fails easier that's a down grade. Really that's dependant on the part. For example I expect my stainless exhaust will outlast the car. You were specifically enquiringly about turbos though and anything made by garret is generally OE quality because that was its original destination, ie it's not aftermarket.
September 9, 20168 yr My stock (original) turbos are still doing very nicely. They've been great and I've been running about 1 bar for nearly 6 years now. If I ever replace them, I'll be digging deep for a set of Power Enterprise PE1420 turbos. Very high quality and very low failure rate. These are true aftermarket turbos, but of extreme high quality. Indeed, although I thought PE had gone out of business. It's a shame it's not an easy case to use Holset turbos as they are superior to Garret in quality and half the price due to thier market.
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