Hmmm something bad seems to have happened with the replacement engine I got fitted

 

There didn't appear to be any problem when I picked the car up.

 

The engine sounds OK and it seems to run OK however when I drove it back yesterday my friend who was following me said it was smoking a lot just from the near side exhaust but I didn't notice as the car felt like it was running fine

 

This seems to have gotten worse today when ticking over the nearside ehxaust is 'splutterring' a bit like there is an intermittent misfire on that side and when you rev it you get copious amounts of white smoke from that exhaust - and I mean plenty of it!!

 

I popped to the garage across the road and they had a look and revved it quite a bit and said they thought it was a turbo but could not explain the splutterring so then they said it could be 'just about anything' which wasn't very helpful

 

I parked up outside the house for 15 mins and then asked the missus to rev the car so i could put some video up here and now it seems to be smoking a lot from both exhausts like it just got worse in those 15 mins

 

The guy from next door came out (who also runs a garage) and claimed it is both turbos because if you compress the intercooler pipes with your fingers then rev the engine it should force the pipes back out again against your fingers. You do feel a little pressure 'kick' when holding the intercooler pipes compressed and revving but he says it is not enough

 

I'm not sure this guy knows what he is talking about or not but I must admit when you rev the engine the guage on the boost controller does not go positive it goes from -70 to about 0. I would have to run the car on the road and watch the guage to be certain

 

Any suggestions please, no doubt when I take the car the few miles to Trentham on Sunday (so it can sit there looking pretty even if it is turned off so it don't smoke) I will have 19 more opinions as to what is wrong with my car now :huh: so I may as well ask here first

 

I'll upload the video if I can remember my youtube login lol

 

Rich

Edited June 14, 201312 yr by dicky96

ok you most defo have 2 problems m8

 

Cam cover is Leaking directly on to the tub and in to the plug hole ... Very Common

and the tub its self the seals are shot ..

 

oil around the gearbox is over spray from the oil leak its self

 

Ur sure that its not the oil feed line that's leaking. Here's a theory, the oil return line is partially/ fully blocked. This is causing the turbo to become full/overfilled with oil, its only escape route are through the seals on the shaft front and rear and body. There is no seal between the core and the exhaust housing so if it fills with oil it will pour out round here aswel.

yeah it would do too ... but oil doesn't travel up .. Down and away

with the amount of Oil on top of the tub ... would indicate more of a leak from above

You have pm mark.

Guy at garage said oil feed line was leaking - don't know if that is accurate or not so take it with a pinch of salt

 

He showed me this - when he pushed his finger against what looked like a small pipe feeding towards the top of the turbo, a load of oil ran down

 

I tried to get a pic but it was too cramped to get a good one

Edited June 20, 201312 yr by dicky96
additional info

No blowby & 180psi compression means it's a good engine. I think it's only fair to stress that.

 

Oil feed line broken -> insubstantial oil for turbo bearings -> failed turbo.

 

I'd expect that the turbo has about 5mm longitudinal shaft play. I'd also expect that the turbo would have ran dry almost immediately, destroying the bearings & seals, hence the smoke as soon as the car was driven and minimal boost produced.

 

Were there any installation issues? There wasn't a massive oil leak from when I sold the engine. Let's hope the lack of oil has not caused any premature bearing wear and the damage is confined to the turbocharger.

OK Noel I hear what you are saying and in fairness a lot of folks at the show also said this engine sounds far too good and runs too smooth to have a major mechanical problem - and that must be the best news I could hear.

 

But where does this leave me now really?

 

I have one apparently good engine, bought in good faith and installed by one respected mechanic but I still have loads of problems that should not have happened.

 

I also have my old engine inc turbos.

 

If I understand what you and Mark are saying correctly this is not so much a matter of parts as it is of the skills and time to put this right. I freely admit I can't do this myself though I want to do as much as I can, and learn at the same time. I can most likely arrange use of proper garage facilities locally (ramps etc) for a day or two. If any assistance is in the offerring it would be very much appreciated. I hope that is not too big an ask.

 

Other than that I guess I just have to pay out again to get my car back on the road

 

Rich

Edited June 20, 201312 yr by dicky96
additional info

OK Noel I hear what you are saying and in fairness a lot of folks at the show also said this engine sounds far too good and runs too smooth to have a major mechanical problem - and that must be the best news I could hear.

 

But where does this leave me now really?

 

I have one apparently good engine, bought in good faith and installed by one respected mechanic but I still have loads of problems that should not have happened.

 

I also have my old engine inc turbos.

 

If I understand what you and Mark are saying correctly this is not so much a matter of parts as it is of the skills and time to put this right. I freely admit I can't do this myself though I want to do as much as I can, and learn at the same time. I can most likely arrange use of proper garage facilities locally (ramps etc) for a day or two. If any assistance is in the offerring it would be very much appreciated. I hope that is not too big an ask.

 

Other than that I guess I just have to pay out again to get my car back on the road

 

Rich

 

Rich,

 

I will stand by what I said to you on the phone in that I will help to get you up & running :)

 

It has been confirmed more than once the compression figures are spot on, bearings in good condition, no bore damage, no noises etc etc. It is important it's clear to all that read this that I haven't sold you a broken engine. This thread is in the public domain and is an ongoing concern. There have been posts made alluding to it being my fault, mentioning "warranty" in one of them. I didn't fit the engine, so I cannot be responsible for installation issues such as oil leaks & failing turbos. It certainly wasn't delivered to you in that condition. I'm quite concerned that all this has happened to you, but I didn't fit the engine or have any say in who did, so I must stand by the fact I sold an engine with good compression, no leaks & no smoke, confirmed by myself and subsequently others. Any oil leak or severe smoke should have been diagnosed on the road test. I have a specific engine builder & installer I use, in that situation if something goes awry, it is much more simple to sort out. It also wasn't sold with the front of it covered in rust. It looks as if it has been dragged out of a lake :(

 

Another problem is that issues have been discussed over the phone that have not been revealed on this thread, so not everyone is privy to the full scenario. It's not my place to disclose these, but it's in my interest I'm not unfairly judged when it is so easy to point the finger on the Internet, as it still reads "Bad engine sold as good" to me :)

 

Anyways, like I said from the start, I will still help with this when I get chance. Time is indeed the main issue, but you did say you weren't in a rush at all on the phone when I said it would be roughly mid July. I think Mark is aiming to get to you earlier, but don't quote me on that.

 

You may indeed have to incur costs in order to get your car up & running, are you willing to risk your other turbos being up to scratch after sitting around? Even without a major oil leak, they may still fail if the seals have dried out. It's best to get them rebuilt. As it's been run so low on oil, it may have damaged the bearings, so it would be good to have those fully checked & replaced for peace of mind as well. Gaskets & seals where required too, of course. Basically, a full inspection.

 

Unfortunately, after the engine & turbos were sat around for 4+ months in a place where the front pulley has become unusable due to rust, everything should have been fully stripped down, inspected, then refurbished or replaced where necessary :(

Rich,

 

I will stand by what I said to you on the phone in that I will help to get you up & running :)

 

It has been confirmed more than once the compression figures are spot on, bearings in good condition, no bore damage, no noises etc etc. It is important it's clear to all that read this that I haven't sold you a broken engine. This thread is in the public domain and is an ongoing concern. There have been posts made alluding to it being my fault, mentioning "warranty" in one of them. I didn't fit the engine, so I cannot be responsible for installation issues such as oil leaks & failing turbos. It certainly wasn't delivered to you in that condition. I'm quite concerned that all this has happened to you, but I didn't fit the engine or have any say in who did, so I must stand by the fact I sold an engine with good compression, no leaks & no smoke, confirmed by myself and subsequently others. Any oil leak or severe smoke should have been diagnosed on the road test. I have a specific engine builder & installer I use, in that situation if something goes awry, it is much more simple to sort out. It also wasn't sold with the front of it covered in rust. It looks as if it has been dragged out of a lake :(

 

Another problem is that issues have been discussed over the phone that have not been revealed on this thread, so not everyone is privy to the full scenario. It's not my place to disclose these, but it's in my interest I'm not unfairly judged when it is so easy to point the finger on the Internet, as it still reads "Bad engine sold as good" to me :)

 

Anyways, like I said from the start, I will still help with this when I get chance. Time is indeed the main issue, but you did say you weren't in a rush at all on the phone when I said it would be roughly mid July. I think Mark is aiming to get to you earlier, but don't quote me on that.

 

You may indeed have to incur costs in order to get your car up & running, are you willing to risk your other turbos being up to scratch after sitting around? Even without a major oil leak, they may still fail if the seals have dried out. It's best to get them rebuilt. As it's been run so low on oil, it may have damaged the bearings, so it would be good to have those fully checked & replaced for peace of mind as well. Gaskets & seals where required too, of course. Basically, a full inspection.

 

Unfortunately, after the engine & turbos were sat around for 4+ months in a place where the front pulley has become unusable due to rust, everything should have been fully stripped down, inspected, then refurbished or replaced where necessary :(

 

 

Noel,

 

I honestly can't fault you for the way you have responded to this problem both on the phone and on this thread, I think that is a credit to yourself.

 

I think what you are referring to about facts not being disclosed must be about the timescale of the engine fit which I explained to you, and seeing as these are simply facts I have no problem posting them here either.

 

The engine was delivered to Zedworld on 9th May by myslef in our van together with the car, explaining I would be away until 5th June

 

The instructions were to check it over, replace bottom end bearings, have a look down the bores and check anything else needed to make sure it was in good order

 

Having had a quote for refurbishing the turbos I simply did not have the funds to do so at the moment so asked that the best two be selected instead.

 

I said if any odd things crop up and they were only small amounts (£20 - £40 quid say) just get them done without asking me

 

I asked for a one piece prop shaft as the centre bearing on mine was bad

 

I asked a few other things (problem with front wheels catching on arch liner, loose interior trim, and sterring wheel not on quite straight) to be looked at as well

 

I left my mobile phone number and said if there are any problems I need to know about, give me a call or text and I would call back. I did not recieve any calls or texts.

 

I then went on holiday to Spain and did not return until 5th June

 

I called Zedworld on 6th June to see if I could collect the car. It was not ready

 

Apparently the engine had taken a lot longer to prep than expected (they said due to the way the engine had been removed from the donor car and some isuues with the powder coated plenum having coating in some of hte threads) and was told there was no point removing my old one until the new one was ready. This was 4 weeks after dropping the car and engine off

 

I explained I really needed my car back for the Trentham show (it would have been rather embarrassing if I could not make it!)

 

I was told that they would work over the weekend and the car would be ready Tuesday. Also there would be some addition cost due to extra prep work required

 

I then recieved a message to say it would be ready Weds. Apparently after fitting the engine, a metal water pipe on the rear engine sprang a leak on a corner joint (he showed it to me later) and it was difficult to change with the engine in situ, but Jeff managed to do it.

 

On Weds I was told the car was ready but the one-piece prop would not be available until Thursday for reasons outside their control. However this would not prevent them testing the engine and running conzult. The prop shaft would be fitted Thursday once it arrived

 

On Thurs about 1pm I set off with the van, I got a call about 40mins later (we had got to M6 J8 by then) to say the car was ready to collect

 

On arrival (20 mins later) the car was ticking over with the conzult computer attached and it was showing no errors

 

Jeff told me he had not road tested the car but everything looked fine, the engine had started first time once fitted which is unusual for an engine that had been standing, and it sounded sweet.

 

I asked what work had been done and if bottom end bearings had been changed. I have explained earlier on this thread that they had not and the reasons given.

 

I paid the original quoted amount (which should have included bottom end work which was not done) plus approx £200 on top for extra work.

 

I think the above is everything we went through on the phone Noel?

 

And my reason for not mentioning this in public previously I gave you as 'not wishing to cast stones in anyones direction' However I can see your concerns about 'public' opinion on what has gone wrong here and how this thread reads, so for all to see I have posted here the timescale of work at Zedworld.

 

 

Anyway that is the sequence of events I explained on the phone.

 

How the front of this engine got so rusty I just don't know. You were there when we put plastic sheeting over it and tied rope around.. Two days later it was indoors. When you pop over I will show you where it was stored, as is my old engine now. I don't remember it being that rusty and neither does my friend who helped take off the plenum and transport the engine. However where we stored it has no lighting or windows (just light from the roller shutter when it is opened) so it was a bit dull in there to see properly.

 

 

Yeah I expect to accept some cost. Mostly now I am wondering how much to would cost to rebuild my spare turbos (or replace them with something else/better?) I never had a problem with the turbos on my old engine and have no reason to doubt them but it does make sense doesn't it. If I rebuild I would probably upgrade so at least I get something extra for my money.

 

Regards other damage I don't know. The oil never got dangerously low, when I brought the car back up from Zedworld (55 miles) it went below the bottom of the dipstick, but only took 1/2 litre approx to get it about 1/4 way up the scale. Obviously then I filled it to max before the 10-12 miles trip to Trentham and back. I just checked it this morning and it's a bit over 1/2. Does that sound like it would have caused damage?

 

The last thing I am still not sure of, is it like I have another another oil leak causing the plugs to clog up on that bank, seeing as there is no sign of oil in the IC piping?

 

I am away next weekend on a minicruise with freinds. Although not in a urgent rush I would lilke to be able to enjoy my car during the summer. As it is off road right now sods law says it will be a 'proper' sunny one this year (something we not seen in the North West for some years) so if the weather is good thank me folks

 

(but no egging Mark/Noel on to delay until October!!! LOL

 

Rich

 

 

OH PS - of the 'few extra things' only the loose trim was fixed

Rich

Edited June 21, 201312 yr by dicky96

Hi Rich,

 

Re: our telephone call confirm collection of your zed for Wednesday 26th when your back from your mini break, have a good trip.

 

Jeff TT

Edited June 21, 201312 yr by JeffTT

Pull the engine, swap the blowers , sorted, or strip the plenum then pull the blowers, which as has been said is more awkward. with the right people and right level of effort you can see that done in a weekend .

Jeff has today phoned and offered to rectify the problems at no cost to me, he asked I take the turbos off my old engine. I now have the old one removed from the nearside and will get the offside one off in the morning

 

Re transporting my car back to you Jeff, as it is not drivable, I have a local quote £20 less than the recovery guy you use has quoted. If your guy is able to match the price I would happily have him collect the car, otehrwise I can arrange transport to you

 

Thank you Jeff for sorting this out for me :biggrin:

 

Re the rusty engine pulley, this sounds like I have stored the engine somwhere it can get wet, and therefore contributed to the problems. This is not the case, it was stored within an old car wash behind a local garage (friend of my dads) , where I also garage my car during the winter as I don't have a garage at home

 

I got some pics today to show where the engine was stored (and my spare one is now) just to dispell the opinion it was badly stored and got wet

 

Rich

Well my Z safely arrived at Zedworld after a whole load of fun getting it onto a flatbed without breaking something

 

Jeff offered to sort out the problems so hopefully in a few days we will have some definitive answers as to what went wrong and maybe even why

 

Rich

be good to finally get to the bottom of the problem and get you back into a Zed mate

OK guys it is time to resurrect this one and keep you all up to date

 

Jeff offered to fix the problem free of charge after reading this thread, if I took my car back to him

 

Unfortunately it was not in a drivable condition so I had to pay £120 get get the car taken down to zedworld on a flatbed. Their guy had quoted £140

 

The car went down on Weds 27th June

 

After about a week, on Weds 3rd July I got a call from Zedworld

 

The gospel according to Mark

Mark called me from zedworld to say he had looked at my car and diagnosed the problem. He asked me whether the plenum was cleaned out after powder coating, and tells me that sand from inside the plenum has been ingested by the engine and got into the oil. According to Mark this gritty oil has circulated all around the engine and trashed the piston rings and probably worn all the bearings in the engine very quickly as well. In his opinion this causes pressure in the sump which in turn has forced oil out of the turbo seals and other places. In his opinion I now need another new engine. He tells me there is evidence to support this diagnosis.

 

Also there was a lot of oil found in the nearside cylinders and the sparkplugs were fouled. The compression is 180 on all cylinders and Mark says the only reason for this is the amount of oil in the bores making a good seal. There is no bore damage seen on the boroscope.

 

The intimation appears to be (though not stated in words) that this is my fault. I pointed out that the plenum was supplied wrapped in bubble wrap and Jeff knew it had been freshly powder coated just before I delivered it so, as my instructions were to check everything out and let me know of any problems, this should have been checked before fitting to the engine. Also I pointed out that if there were any problems the plenum from my old engine could have been fitted instead. Mark then told me that Jeff would call me back.

 

I then went down to the powder coaters and without telling them there was a problem, I asked them if the plenum had been cleaned out after sand blasting as the garage who were fitting it were concerned about sand deposits in the plenum. I was told that whilst they could not absolutely 100% guarantee there were no remaining deposits in the plenum, it had been through a wash tank after blasting and should be clean. Also they said that the grit they use for blasting is very coarse and heavy and any that was in the plenum would come out if it was shaken or jolted.

 

The gospel according to Jeff

On return the same afternoon I called Jeff and he tells me that he very much doubts the diagnosis from Mark. He said he had fitted lots of powder coated plenums over the years and never seen this problem. Also he told me (and I can confirm this as it slowed down the fitting of the engine so I had already been told) that the powder coated plenum had coating in some of the threaded holes and he had spent a lot of time cleaning the threads out. This meant having the pleunum upside down, on end etc while being worked on quite vigorously and no residue had come out of it. Also the bubble wrap packaging was completely clean from residue when it was unwrapped. Jeff says that the problem is a blown turbo on the nearside. However he could not explain how the oil is getting into the nearside cylinder bank as the intercooler pipes are clean

 

Another near on two weeks go by and Jeff called me to say the turbo was off, the cat on the nearside was so full of oil it had to be poured out, and he had left the exhaust up on end to drain over the weekend

 

On Monday15th July Mark calls me to say the turbo has been replaced and the car is ready to collect. He says that there is still a lot of smoke but less than before, says I need to run it for a couple hundred miles to see if it clears, and still suys he thinks sand from thje plenum damaged the engine. Two new sparkplugs fitted as they were fouled with oil

 

I went down to Zedworld to collect the car - Mark was not there but Jeff told me he thought the smoke was now due to oil residue still (mostly) in the nearside cat. He said out o nthe road the car was running well and not smoking so much unless you give it a good boost in which case it would chuck it out. Jeff tells me it is all a bit of a mystery as the smoke and oil in cylinders would suggest piston rings but the compression is 180 all round which would suggest not.

 

On free revving the car I didn't think it was much better than before, apart from it is running well on all six cylinders with no misfire

 

Bringing the car back up to Stoke at first there was a hell of a lot of smoke and too be honest i nearly turned back, but then got onto the M6 and stuck in a lot of traffic. Gradually I noticed less smoke so carried on. Once I was back (about 55 miles) there was much less smoke.

 

I have checked the oil level a couple of times yesterday and today and it does not appear to have lost any more.

 

However what I find now is this.

 

When the car has been standing overnight or all day I get huge amounts of white smoke once I start it and free rev it to about 3000

 

If I drive even just a few miles till the car gets up to temperature I then get much less smoke

 

Here are three videos of me free revving the car first two when cold after standing all day, last one once up to temp.

 

On the raod she drives well enough, and only seems to leave puffs of smoke when I accellerate on boost, even less than when free revving

 

On tick over it is pretty clear especially once warm

 

Oh and I have not had a cylinder drop out yet but I haven't pulled the sparkplugs to look at them

 

Ohh and it sounds OK..... but it did with a blown turbo

 

So there we go - two completely different verdicts. Which is correct?

 

 

first one cold

 

second one cold, half a minute later

 

 

after going to the car wash and back, about 4 miles. Engine up to temp

 

 

Opinions and suggestions on how to proceed are sought please.

 

Rich

First off, send a sample of your oil here http://www.howcleanisyouroil.com/ if you still have any of it.

 

If it's relatively free from silica particles, then it'll dispel myth one.....which I wouldn't agree with either (sorry Mark). If there was that much shot still in the inlet to damage an engine, you'd have noticed it.

 

Secondly, how many miles have you driven with it since the turbo was replaced? It can take quite a long time for it all to burn off, but that's usually the case when rebuilding an engine after ring failure and you have the crud that was pumped into the ICs and inlet due to blowback.

its very hard to say ..but i can only say what i found ...

 

so can any one explain the huge amounts of oil in the cylinders and fouling plugs if the Intake system is Clean ..

as with the amount of oil that was dripping out of the tub its self and all in the exhaust system

they would be some evidence of oil in the other pipe work .. but not one bit

 

Mark@zedword

It would seem to me mate that the stem seals are faulty atm, that's characteristic that they will weep over a relaxed time then clear as the car drives. This may not have been the original issue but simply a background one. Sadly to get to them you have to disassemble the head to access them. :(

 

As for the above discrepancies I cannot comment I'am not an expert mechanic. However the way its running tends to suggest jeff is correct, if it had had sand go though it wrecking seals and bearings you'd most likely have poor compression and excessive blow by.

It would seem to me mate that the stem seals are faulty atm, that's characteristic that they will weep over a relaxed time then clear as the car drives. This may not have been the original issue but simply a background one. Sadly to get to them you have to disassemble the head to access them. :(

 

As for the above discrepancies I cannot comment I'am not an expert mechanic. However the way its running tends to suggest jeff is correct, if it had had sand go though it wrecking seals and bearings you'd most likely have poor compression and excessive blow by.

 

you don`t need to disassemble heads to change stem seals on Z32 :) plenum off cambelt off rocker covers off camshaft pulleys off camshafts off hydrolic lifters off :) overhead valve tool and make shure cylinder you working on is in highest point

Hey.

 

Just had a skim through the thread, sounds like a stressfull situation man! Feel sorry for ya. If I were you at this point I would be driving it for a few hundrore, see if it settles down at all, and if not then I would sell it and cut my losses... When something starts turning into a money pit I find it hard to stay attached to it as it gets too stressfull... Just my 2 cents.

 

All the best,

why sell something thats repairable ? its not like the car is scrap or has other problems

 

its a nice motor ... and its worth spending the £££ on it ...

you don`t need to disassemble heads to change stem seals on Z32 :) plenum off cambelt off rocker covers off camshaft pulleys off camshafts off hydrolic lifters off :) overhead valve tool and make shure cylinder you working on is in highest point

 

Lol I see what your saying but that's pretty disassembled, what I meant was you can't just remove the cam cover and pop some new ones on lol.

Ide drive for a hundred miles to clear and burn oil out of zorst before anything else....take off the oil filter and cut open with a ring cutter not a hacksaw and take out element and un-ravel on clean paper,any blasting grit will be in filter and self evident before it finds its way to bearings after draining to sump (long shot) but i personly dont think its injested any blasting grit myself

No that's fair Mark, just think I would have been a bit too disheartened by now and would be concerened about other things going after a tonne for £££ being thrown at it... But hey, all part of the fun!

Yes it's bloody distressful but I am £14k+ in on this car (£2k to buy it, £10k on rust/rot removal, bodykit, respray and to get this car exterior and interior into show condition) plus £2.2k on swapping out my old engine which ran fine but had a bottom end knock that annoyed me rather than causing any actual problem to replace it with this this 'mint' one bought and fitted from/by respected members on here

 

So this car is not for sale!!

 

I'm a pragmatic sort of person and those who have followed my forum posts for any period of time, or have met me, will probably know that - shit happens and sometimes it happens to me. That's life.

 

Really I just want to get this sorted, prefereably at the minimum of further expense and really would hope that other parties involved plus maybe even the goodwill of this forum will see that happen. Before the wife kills me for what this car cost, she being rather less pragmatic than me!!!

 

Regards checking out the silica content in the oil I am quite happy to pay to do so if is the next recommendation and if that proves something for once and for all

 

Cheers for the help and advice so far it is much appreciated

 

Rich

Edited July 17, 201312 yr by dicky96

 

Secondly, how many miles have you driven with it since the turbo was replaced?

 

Forgot to answer - about 65 miles

 

Actually which makes me think, are there any meets, summer convoys or whatever (even if a few of you just fancy cruising around with me in an impromptu last minute sort of way) planned for this weekend which should be sunny? If so I would love to join in on one as far as it is not one corner of the UK or another (I live in the middle lol)

 

Also what if I change my front pipes for decats (like on my old Z) to get rid of all this oil and shit in the cats. They were not too expensive and passed an MOT as on the log book it just says nissan coupe (being an import) so they have no figures to compare it with

 

Rich

Edited July 17, 201312 yr by dicky96