Just has the Police at my door and charged me on having no tax, no insurance and no MOT. I bought my Z as a project to keep me occupied as i have a bad heart and don't work anymore. Now the car is on SORN and as it don't move as the engine and gearbox is out i haven't bothered with insurance as its off the road and going no where. I have had it parked up at the front of my house off the road where i have been working on it when i can, but the Police say it still counts as on the road even though in the pics you can see its off the road and not obstructing traffic.

Any help and advice as to where i stand on this is much appreciated as i genuinly thought i was doing nothing wrong.

Insurance is basically to cover you and the other party involved if your car is stolen, crashed etc... but being parked up with no insurance if it gets stolen your going to loose out.. Ithink its your choice if you insure your car while being SORN...

 

See above ^^^ if your car catches fire and damages property such as road surfaces or other property, then you are liable.

Yes you would loose out but we are talking about the legal requirement of insurance on a car that is not being driven but parked on a public highway

 

The only reason I can see as in my prev post is public liability, as Si said, if it caught fire and took another car with it etc.

 

You would be liable of course, but is it a legal requirement?

That's it, it's on a public highway. Any vehicle on a public highway must be legal, which involves taxing, MOTing and insuring the vehicle.

Just found this:

 

"The new offence, possession of a vehicle without valid insurance will enable the police to access the records of insurers and effect automated fines by default for vehicles not kept on the public high way unless the vehicle keeper has declared Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN)"

as long as you car has tax, irrelevant of insurance as far as im aware you can not done for not having insurance, is insurance just for when you are driving on public roads and not parked up?

 

Sorry dear you are completely wrong. The car must have a minimum of third party insurance if it is parked on the road. It could be damaged by another car and then a passer buy may cut themselves, fall against it and injure themselves or purely by being there it could cause an obstruction to the emergency services, Sh1t I could sit here all day telling you reasons why your car could make you liable if it is on a public highway.

 

If it's yours and not on your private property you are liable for any event.

Just to add I recently got done for driving without tax........£30 fine......No points

Yes you are liable so you would have to pay damages and compensation to the person that cut themselves on your car.

 

From the post that Saz put up its now an offence to own a vehicle without vailid insurance unless its declared SORN. Its also an offence then to have a vechicle that is declared SORN on a public highway unless your driving it to a prebooked mot.

 

So...

 

I think that the way they will look at it and the way that the law sees it is that the SORN is not vaild because of it being on a public road is a breach of the SORN declaration.

 

Therefore it puts you in the position of having a car parked on the road with no tax and no insurance, which are both now offences, not sure about the mot.

 

I think your best bet is to show them it has no engine so there is no way you could or were planning to drive it, say your very sorry and get it moved.

 

Personally I think this new offence of owning a car that is not properly SORN with no insurance is a bit pants, but if it allows the police to get uninsured scum bag drivers off the road then great :)

 

What you have to do is prove to them you are not one of those uninsured scum bag chav drivers as you were not going to drive it!

 

Ed

The car was moved the 10 feet into the drive and i called Adrian Flux to insure it, i got a good quote but then i was told i don't need the insurance as its in the drive now. Now i understand what people are saying about liability insurance for say damaging the road but i live in a council house, its still the council property but now i don't need insurance. The postman or any delivery driver could still catch themself on any jagged metal as has been previously said so whats the difference. If the police had just warned me to move it i would have been a lot happier but the fact i had no warning and they just turned up and charged me stinks.

If i had broken the law knowingly i deserve to be punished, i even accept that i can and probably will get fined but getting points on my license when i haven't even driven the car is a going a bit far. :rant:

 

I think your best bet is to show them it has no engine so there is no way you could or were planning to drive it, say your very sorry and get it moved.

 

Personally I think this new offence of owning a car that is not properly SORN with no insurance is a bit pants, but if it allows the police to get uninsured scum bag drivers off the road then great :)

 

 

 

Ed

When i told them the engine was out they were not interested, they even had a closer look inside when they were leaving and noticed that the steering wheel and dash pods were removed also.

They did say they would add to their report that i have a bad heart and that the majistrate might feel sorry for me. :slap:

This whole SORN thing sucks BIG TIME. I once had a ****ed out golf which I left on my estate. Some kind person reported it and sure enough, I had a letter through the post. It was only for the lack of tax though. Never thought it should have been insured though! What really pisses me off is that even a fooking SORN expires after a year FFS. What right have they got to force you to write in EVERY fooking year it's off the road. I'm sure this contravenes the European law for human rights. A dead car on your land should be no concern of theirs. As fairladyzed says - They are revenue collectors nowadays and is it any wonder they are so unpopular?

I'd go to court and play on your illness etc. and I'm sorry to hear about this buddy.

Ok, as far as the tax goes, unfortunately you have no escape unless you can prove that the piece of road it was on was 'private'

 

Looking at the pics and reading the threads it appears that it is part of the road, so I would claim you had just moved it there.

 

Now moving on to the insurance. Section 143 of the road traffic act 1988 states -

 

' a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road or other public place unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this part of this act'

 

What that means in short is that EVERY vehicle, if being kept on a road or public place must have at least third party insurance. There is no exception to this rule!

 

Mot's will only apply if the vehicle is being used on a road.

 

I hope this helps folks and as far as -

 

"The police are no longer law enforcers but tax enforcers, quite sickening!!"

 

Well yes I will agree to a certain degree, but everyone who works has to abide to rules and regulations set out by their employer. The Police are employed, and as such have to adhere to policies set out be the government.

 

Sometimes as in cases such as this, I think a little common sense should have been adopted by the officers involved, and friendly words of advice should have been offered instead of sticking rigidly to the law. Perhaps then the Police would have a little more respect.

 

But you all must remember that not all of the Police you meet are the same! ;)

 

Ade.

Ok, as far as the tax goes, unfortunately you have no escape unless you can prove that the piece of road it was on was 'private'

 

Looking at the pics and reading the threads it appears that it is part of the road, so I would claim you had just moved it there.

 

Now moving on to the insurance. Section 143 of the road traffic act 1988 states -

 

 

 

But you all must remember that not all of the Police you meet are the same! ;)

 

Ade.

I agree not all Police are the same, i've been driving along the road and had the siren and lights flashed at me to pull over and when the officer approached the car he said "just to let you know mate one of your lights is out at the back and the traffic cops can be right bast@rds".

Now thats how you get respect!

I live in a small quiet town but its full idiots much the same as everywhere, we have a pensioners hall across the road from where i live, i watched the idiots smash the windows in the hall one night i called the police and waited for hours and no show, in the end i went to bed. The next day someone had boarded up the windows but at night the idiots were back and knocked the boards off and started throwing all kinds of crap in through the window. I called the police again and gave descriptions, the Police arrived as the morons were walking away but they just sat in the car and did nothing they never even got out to check the hall. Thats why Joe public has no respect for the police, yes you get the odd good guy who uses common sense but its the other lazy b@st@rds that gives them a bad name and thats the ones we remember.

This whole SORN thing sucks BIG TIME. I once had a ****ed out golf which I left on my estate. Some kind person reported it and sure enough, I had a letter through the post. It was only for the lack of tax though. Never thought it should have been insured though! What really pisses me off is that even a fooking SORN expires after a year FFS. What right have they got to force you to write in EVERY fooking year it's off the road. I'm sure this contravenes the European law for human rights. A dead car on your land should be no concern of theirs. As fairladyzed says - They are revenue collectors nowadays and is it any wonder they are so unpopular?

I'd go to court and play on your illness etc. and I'm sorry to hear about this buddy.

Thanks Dave just waiting on word back from the solicitor! :duffer:

I agree not all Police are the same, i've been driving along the road and had the siren and lights flashed at me to pull over and when the officer approached the car he said "just to let you know mate one of your lights is out at the back and the traffic cops can be right bast@rds".

Now thats how you get respect!

I live in a small quiet town but its full idiots much the same as everywhere, we have a pensioners hall across the road from where i live, i watched the idiots smash the windows in the hall one night i called the police and waited for hours and no show, in the end i went to bed. The next day someone had boarded up the windows but at night the idiots were back and knocked the boards off and started throwing all kinds of crap in through the window. I called the police again and gave descriptions, the Police arrived as the morons were walking away but they just sat in the car and did nothing they never even got out to check the hall. Thats why Joe public has no respect for the police, yes you get the odd good guy who uses common sense but its the other lazy b@st@rds that gives them a bad name and thats the ones we remember.

 

I totally agree with you!

My father was a copper for many years, he was of the same opinion with regards to revenue collection, but you are quite right in that they aren't all like that! I just hate stories like this one :rant: . I was pulling an £8K boat back from Southampton docks last December with a £100 car :D . I got pulled over by the Hampshire Traffic Police and they were really polite and civil with me, yet I hear some nightmare stories about trivial incidents here in North Wales. I think Richard Brunstrom isn't doing any of the nation's traffic officers any favours with his draconian measures imo :( .

My father was a copper for many years, he was of the same opinion with regards to revenue collection, but you are quite right in that they aren't all like that! I just hate stories like this one :rant: . I was pulling an £8K boat back from Southampton docks last December with a £100 car :D . I got pulled over by the Hampshire Traffic Police and they were really polite and civil with me, yet I hear some nightmare stories about trivial incidents here in North Wales. I think Richard Brunstrom isn't doing any of the nation's traffic officers any favours with his draconian measures imo :( .

Yes i know what you mean Dave, i got stopped speeding a few years back just before my heart attack. I was having a panic attack and just wanted to get home. The cops who stopped me were great, they took me to a hotel to get myself sorted out. They could see that i was genuine and really helped. They still issued me with the ticket but the guy even came to see how i was later and said i should get a doctors letter and appeal the charge. Needless to say i did, i was on a £60 fine and 3 points and ended up with £200 fine and 5 points lol. The Judge said it was failure to pay and i was only following up what the officer advised but i still appreciate the officers concern. I still remember his name Officer McQueen nice guy.

Coppers differ greatly! I'm one and I'm a nice guy! :D

 

Ade.

............................ i was on a £60 fine and 3 points and ended up with £200 fine and 5 points lol. The Judge said it was failure to pay .........................

 

Now that's where our justice really sucks :mad:

 

You took a chance with the appeal and lost, so if all was good and fair the original penalty should stand (maybe a few quid extra for "court fees"). But to actually increase your punishment is wrong IMO :mad:

 

I hope you get your problems sorted with minimum fuss and stress mate - you don't need that.

 

Good luck,

 

Richard

Now that's where our justice really sucks :mad:

 

You took a chance with the appeal and lost, so if all was good and fair the original penalty should stand (maybe a few quid extra for "court fees"). But to actually increase your punishment is wrong IMO :mad:

 

I hope you get your problems sorted with minimum fuss and stress mate - you don't need that.

 

Good luck,

 

Richard

Thanks Buddy, it makes things a little better when your fellow Zedders offer support instead of quoting laws and bylaws. We know i was in the wrong otherwise i wouldn't have been charged. I just think that a bit more common sense used by the Police would have benefitted all concerned. I've just read in my local paper about a woman who commited benefit fraud to the tune of £8000 and she gets 80 hours community service.

I unknowingly work on my car on the pavement as its safer than my driveway and i'm looking at points on my license and a fine. :rant:

It's a bloody nightmare and no mistake. Sorry to read what's happened to you. My zed's been off the road for a while now and I've actually just cancelled the insurance, but having read most of this thread I'm thinking maybe I need to SORN it as well (at the moment it's still taxed) in order to avoid similar problems.

 

The whole system is bloody stupid because you can't even get road tax without:

 

(1) an MOT, and

 

(2) a valid certificate of motor insurance

 

So the MOT expires and then you're basically screwed unless you've got a driveway or a garage you can keep the thing in because if it's parked outside your house it can't be SORNed. Utterly, utterly ridiculous, particularly since nowadays all this stuff can be checked by any traffic cop in a matter of seconds based on your registration plate. I suppose it means we don't have our streets littered all over the place with battered old vehicles with broken windows and flat tyres, but don't we have laws on littering to cover that kind of thing? I mean if an Australian district can fine the USA $400 for littering because a chunk of Skylab landed in their town I'm sure we could come up with some sensible penalty for leaving wrecked cars lying around.

 

My other car's tax expired at the end of last month, and I'd basically forgotten about it because I had to go away on business for 8 days. So I get back, realise the tax needs sorting, phone up and buy 6 months worth and I'm waiting for the disc to arrive... and waiting... and waiting. After a week and a half I phone the DVLA who confirm that yes I've purchased the tax and it's all fine and since it's been that long they'll send me out a duplicate disc free of charge. Now it still hasn't arrived yet, and so every time I see a police car I flinch at the moment, because, and here's the really stupid bit, it's an offence to drive a vehicle on a public road without displaying a valid tax disc (unless of course it's SORNed and you're off to get it MOTed).

 

Now I can kind of see the point of that 10 years ago or more because the police didn't have instant access to any kind of database that would immediately tell them whether the vehicle is taxed, insured and has a valid MOT, but nowadays? It's just stupid and pointless. Why don't they update the law to reflect the current state of technology? Why are we still burdened with useless and irrelevant rules that hark back to an age gone by that is NEVER GOING TO RETURN!!!!

 

Ah, I feel better for that. I went off on a bit of a tangent there. Sorry about that. My point was meant to be I feel your pain, and if you were cynical you might think it was almost like the current rules are just designed to trip you up. All IMHO obviously.

It's a bloody nightmare and no mistake. Sorry to read what's happened to you. My zed's been off the road for a while now and I've actually just cancelled the insurance, but having read most of this thread I'm thinking maybe I need to SORN it as well (at the moment it's still taxed) in order to avoid similar problems.

 

The whole system is bloody stupid because you can't even get road tax without:

 

(1) an MOT, and

 

(2) a valid certificate of motor insurance

 

So the MOT expires and then you're basically screwed unless you've got a driveway or a garage you can keep the thing in because if it's parked outside your house it can't be SORNed. Utterly, utterly ridiculous, particularly since nowadays all this stuff can be checked by any traffic cop in a matter of seconds based on your registration plate. I suppose it means we don't have our streets littered all over the place with battered old vehicles with broken windows and flat tyres, but don't we have laws on littering to cover that kind of thing? I mean if an Australian district can fine the USA $400 for littering because a chunk of Skylab landed in their town I'm sure we could come up with some sensible penalty for leaving wrecked cars lying around.

 

My other car's tax expired at the end of last month, and I'd basically forgotten about it because I had to go away on business for 8 days. So I get back, realise the tax needs sorting, phone up and buy 6 months worth and I'm waiting for the disc to arrive... and waiting... and waiting. After a week and a half I phone the DVLA who confirm that yes I've purchased the tax and it's all fine and since it's been that long they'll send me out a duplicate disc free of charge. Now it still hasn't arrived yet, and so every time I see a police car I flinch at the moment, because, and here's the really stupid bit, it's an offence to drive a vehicle on a public road without displaying a valid tax disc (unless of course it's SORNed and you're off to get it MOTed).

 

Now I can kind of see the point of that 10 years ago or more because the police didn't have instant access to any kind of database that would immediately tell them whether the vehicle is taxed, insured and has a valid MOT, but nowadays? It's just stupid and pointless. Why don't they update the law to reflect the current state of technology? Why are we still burdened with useless and irrelevant rules that hark back to an age gone by that is NEVER GOING TO RETURN!!!!

 

Ah, I feel better for that. I went off on a bit of a tangent there. Sorry about that. My point was meant to be I feel your pain, and if you were cynical you might think it was almost like the current rules are just designed to trip you up. All IMHO obviously.

Well said! :duffer:

I might be clutching at straws here but i never signed anything to say this car is actually mine. What i mean is i bought the car from an old guy who said it belonged to his son. His son lives in England and i have never met him, therefore i have never signed the V5 to change ownership. This was bothering me as i had started doing a lot of work on the car and had no proof of ownership. When i bought the car i was told it was SORN but as i have never signed anything how did the documents get transferred in my name. The documents arrived a few weeks ago and i have the V5 in my name now but i never signed anything.

 

Just to add i'm not looking for a way out of my responsibility lol. I just want to know how the ownership can be transferred without signatures.

I have just checked the V5 and the previous owner was a lady from Livingstone. I'm waiting for the Cops to turn up and tell me it has been used in something grusome lol.

When you bought it you must have given your name and address.

 

The law changed with regard to filling in the log books a while back and now it rests on the current owner to notify the dvla of a change of keeper. Therefore the chap you bought it off has put it in your name.

 

It appears that if he is not listed, or his son for that matter, then possibly the lady that owned it might have just given him the log book (if before the law changed) or he might have picked the car up from an auction, where sometimes they hand all documents over. Traders tend to leave their details off log books for a number of reasons too!

 

Hope that lot made sense mate?

 

Ade.

When you bought it you must have given your name and address.

 

The law changed with regard to filling in the log books a while back and now it rests on the current owner to notify the dvla of a change of keeper. Therefore the chap you bought it off has put it in your name.

 

It appears that if he is not listed, or his son for that matter, then possibly the lady that owned it might have just given him the log book (if before the law changed) or he might have picked the car up from an auction, where sometimes they hand all documents over. Traders tend to leave their details off log books for a number of reasons too!

 

Hope that lot made sense mate?

 

Ade.

Yes that makes sense. Thanks bud thought i was due another visit lol.

As an officer it must piss you off when you hear about things like this. I mean i don't know you but just from reading your posts you work hard and do a thankless job and you obviously take pride in your job (well sometimes thankless), and yet there are people in your profession who go out of their way just to get a reaction. I have friends in the police force who are good guys and they say the same, they get all the hassle like "why don't you go and catch the real criminals" when they are just doing their job. But a little bit of common sense go's a long way. :bow: