Sparked from Tom's thread, I've realised a lot of people (i think) don't think of these engines as holding a lot of power. Of course someone can correct me on anything.

 

I always think of these engines as vastly underrated. They can hold 550bhp stock bottom end 'reliably' (rb26 and 2jz realms) and sometimes stories of 900hp cars on stock bottom ends (which wouldnt last long), it has loads more torque than an rb to the same spec has (see: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/28207-vg30dett-vs-rb26dett/). VGs have cast iron blocks, which although heavy are incredibly strong and are nearly never the first things to break.

 

In our world you can buy a TT engine for around £600. You're looking at £2000+ for an rb26/2jz?

 

The only thing I can see is that these engines are a bitch to work on, engine pull to swap out turbos, being a V you need two turbos, two exhaust manifolds etc.

 

The 2jz in pure stock form can of course handle more power because it has 440cc injectors, but the strength cannot be a million miles ahead of the VG30. I think the rb26 and the VG30 are very similarly well matched if not the VG is better as it has a higher displacement for more torque.

 

Any thoughts guys? This is half a how strong the VG30 is stock, and half balls to the wall discussion. Remember the drag race record for a nissan car is held by the VG30.

Sparked from Tom's thread, I've realised a lot of people (i think) don't think of these engines as holding a lot of power. Of course someone can correct me on anything.

 

I always think of these engines as vastly underrated. They can hold 550bhp stock bottom end 'reliably' (rb26 and 2jz realms) and sometimes stories of 900hp cars on stock bottom ends (which wouldnt last long), it has loads more torque than an rb to the same spec has (see: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/28207-vg30dett-vs-rb26dett/). VGs have cast iron blocks, which although heavy are incredibly strong and are nearly never the first things to break.

 

In our world you can buy a TT engine for around £600. You're looking at £2000+ for an rb26/2jz?

 

The only thing I can see is that these engines are a bitch to work on, engine pull to swap out turbos, being a V you need two turbos, two exhaust manifolds etc.

 

The 2jz in pure stock form can of course handle more power because it has 440cc injectors, but the strength cannot be a million miles ahead of the VG30. I think the rb26 and the VG30 are very similarly well matched if not the VG is better as it has a higher displacement for more torque.

 

Any thoughts guys? This is half a how strong the VG30 is stock, and half balls to the wall discussion. Remember the drag race record for a nissan car is held by the VG30.

 

Good bet is to look up pentroof. They took rb26 and vg30 and did back to back mods, and the vg came out with more torque and power on a like for like basis (in the 550-600 range)

Good bet is to look up pentroof. They took rb26 and vg30 and did back to back mods, and the vg came out with more torque and power on a like for like basis (in the 550-600 range)

That's what the link refers to. Pentroof, like for like but instead in the 750whp range (http://www.ooparts-international.co.jp/index/car/listbybrand/pentroof/record/).

Is the VG underrated? Yes! No question. As pointed out it’s actually superior to the legendary RB. It is however an expensive block to tune, not many options for single turbo conversion, space is a problem, just a nuisance engine. Obviously more expensive to purchase upgrontbother engines are cheaper and better supported for modifications. You can get 500hp naturally aspirated out of an LS lump but it’s a comparitavily expensive block.

I wouldn't worry about tuning it, if money isn't a limiting factor, it's not any more expensive than a 2jz to tune - the engine isn't hard to work on either really, the engine bay it's in is what makes minor mods (in-situ turbo change etc) difficult. But its rare you extensively modify any engine (block work etc) without taking the engine out first, it's really very little hastle in the grand scheme :-)

Single turbo is a huge waste of time and fabrication, I can't understand how it's justified when 2 small turbos can get you insane street power with less lag. Unless you're building a full-on drag car, and even then there's plenty 1000+bhp examples running twins. People say 'but it costs less, less to go wrong', sure you have to pay for one more turbo - but that's about it really, not a trade off with the reduced lag.

My point is in comparison to more traditional mainstream platforms like the RB the parts, support and knowledge aren’t the same. You can buy a nice big cheap turbo, like a holset a single turbo manifold and some injectors. An afternoon and a few cups of tea your off to the dyno. A VG after scouring the internet, purchasing two turbos from a limited range you will spend the best part of a day swearing as you split your knuckles getting the block out. Then spend another afternoon having a ham fisted argument with the turbos getting them off the block. You umm’d and arr’d about those MPS manifolds because of the cost and opted out. Then you spent the rest of day fitting the injectors with your adapters. Next day, block in and if there’s time your modifying your loom to accept the injectors. Now it’s just time to find someone who wants to map it. That’s how most people look at it. There’s a reason why S bodies are more expensive than Z32s and not just drift tax, right or wrong that’s the perception.

To be fair, single turbos are more efficient than twins. The new technology can nearly eliminate lag with the split pulse exhaust housings.

To be fair, single turbos are more efficient than twins. The new technology can nearly eliminate lag with the split pulse exhaust housings.

Single turbos are more efficient than twins? Thats a pointless statement.

 

Efficiency of a single or twin turbo depends on many variables.

 

Engine CC, flow characteristics etc etc all dictate which turbo is suited to a particular setup.

 

I think you need to stop quoting things you read on tinterweb.

 

And engine strength and reliability depends more on the quality of workmanship and tuning rather than an RB vs VG.

 

A 300bhp RB or VG could destroy itself if its built or tuned badly.

 

Besides if you want a seriously over engined stock engine fit a 1UZFE.

90 degree v8 over square short stroke with steel crank and 6 bolt mains........

 

 

 

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Single turbo's can be efficient you are correct. But an efficient single big is quite unlikely to be more efficient than much smaller efficient twins of similar design. Besides there another major issue here - it's a vee-engine - it makes the most sense unless you can put the turbo at the back centre of the engine (which you can't in the Z32) to stick with twins. Straight-6's have the luxury of improving room and workability by converting to a single, not so in our case. It just doesn't seem worth the immense effort to save a few quid.

 

Anyone looking to upgrade turbo's for a good power-hike shouldn't be looking at it as a weekend job. Better to take the engine out, replace what maintenance items need replaced to ensure a long and healthy life of your engine. My NA SR20 was in an out a few times just replacing sensors etc. , it was easier to take it out and work on it than it was forcing your hands into awkward places - and that's on an engine bay with some room.

 

I think you need to stop quoting things you read on tinterweb.

 

^^ This X 1million.

Guys lets be honest here. None of you have done comprehensive comparisons of vg vs rbs, or single vs twin turbo set ups, so honestly its completely reasonable to search on the internet for information.

 

It is well tested that a single is more efficient than a twin, for example see garrett's own website: https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/differences_between_turbos

I'm not at all saying that we should all be converting our Zs to singles, the packaging just doesn't work compared to just slapping it on an exhaust manifold of an inline car.

 

 

The point of my thread was the title. Whenever people talk about engine swapping a 90s JDM car, they always look to the rb26 and the 2jz as the top dogs, the thread was to point out that the VG may be on the same level to both if it didn't have the workability downsides.

I think it also comes down to weight. VG is heavier, quite a bit heavier. Some 80lbs (5-6 stone) in fact over an RB26DETT. I believe the 2JZ is around the same weight as the RB. There's a lot more iron in the VG block than in an inline block. I still prefer the VG though, in particular the sound with a high quality dual exhaust system.

 

That link doesn't really prove anything to be honest, it's actually a little spurious; we don't know what they're comparing, what engine types, what turbo technology. It's an 'in general' and 'maybe' observation.

I think it also comes down to weight. VG is heavier, quite a bit heavier. Some 80lbs (5-6 stone) in fact over an RB26DETT. I believe the 2JZ is around the same weight as the RB. There's a lot more iron in the VG block than in an inline block. I still prefer the VG though, in particular the sound with a high quality dual exhaust system.

 

Fair enough. The VG does sound good and has a good amount of torque for good power 'under the curve' instead of all up top. The weight is probably countered by the RB with all its 4 wheel drive system? That trans is chunky, though it will provide more grip.

Couple of pages on the design of the VG30DETT engine from the Road and Track "Guide to the all-new Nissan 300ZX".

Published in '89 and running to 97 pages dedicated to the design and development of the Z32.

 

 

Fair enough. The VG does sound good and has a good amount of torque for good power 'under the curve' instead of all up top. The weight is probably countered by the RB with all its 4 wheel drive system? That trans is chunky, though it will provide more grip.

 

You'd like to think so, but as an example, the R33 GTR's official curb-weight is about 100kg lighter than a 2+2 TT which makes it around the same as a 2+0 TT.

Couple of pages on the design of the VG30DETT engine from the Road and Track "Guide to the all-new Nissan 300ZX".

Published in '89 and running to 97 pages dedicated to the design and development of the Z32.

 

 

 

Really good read that, also the engineering around the aerodynamics.

 

It was effectively a forged engine from the factory.

 

You'd like to think so, but as an example, the R33 GTR's official curb-weight is about 100kg lighter than a 2+2 TT which makes it around the same as a 2+0 TT.

 

Quick search rb26 with gearbox is 330ish kg. VG with gearbox is 350. So yes although they are both iron blocks, the vg weights 40-50kg more, while only saving roughly 30kg with the gearbox.

Vg's are underrated, but one of the main reasons for this is because they're fitted to zeds... In comparison with Supra/JZ engine cars less people have owned them so know about them as well as some of their counterparts, they've just heard all the horror stories, hence why they're nowhere near as supported as their 6 cylinder counter parts.

 

They're also v6, which is great for sound but not for working on or maintenance, if you look at the straight JZ it's simplicity and mod support is unrivalled by most. Tbf I never had a problem working on any of my cars- yeah it's a ballache when you drop a socket but it's just more nuts, bolts and hoses, as long as you think the long way round to the bit your working on is the quickest way then there's no time constraint issues.

 

I've owned 3 2jzgte cars, 6g72, and VG and honestly performance wise there's very little between them, any engine can have good performance with enough money spent but they've all been reliable for me.

 

JZ's are easiest to get more power and parts for, if a 6G72 wasn't transverse mounted it would have been much more popular (they're not that bad to work on either) and if the VG wasn't such a bitch to work on (in peoples opinion/granted engine bay is tight), their size/weight and people considered them more instead of the usual their stock would rise with their price.

 

I actually prefer twin turbo's for daily use but my 2nd jz was single turbo and the reason why it's so popular for most? Because it's more cost effective and much more simpler to work on!

 

It get's rid of a load of crap out of the engine bay and will cost less than a good pair of twins (unless you go for precision, HKS etc) for big power.

 

And as long as you don't go too big there's no reason why it needs to be really laggy- you've selected the wrong size turbo/set-up if it's too bad tbh.

 

I've had this debate before- in my opinion Nissan's are the best at styling/mechanical form, Toyota's are the best functioning/put together/simplicity and Mitsubishi were the best at technology/quirkiness.

 

The ZX is a better car than the GTO whilst I'm on the subject and I owned 2 reliable GTO's unlike most so it's coming from an unbiased perspective.

 

Also whilst we're on the subject of good engines for tuning- The B204/B234 is one of the best 4 pot production engines ever made in my opinion- stock bottom end good for 600+ t5 mapping system was one of the most comprehensive out there (I had an SE 150bhp and had it mapped to aero spec for £50 to 230bhp!) they'll run all day long and the only thing that really goes wrong is the ignition pack (D.I Cassette). They produce stupid torque which is where it gets let down- the gearbox can't take it... after 70mph they fly but on pull off they're not that quick, just powerful.

 

The thing is, a car or engine gets jumped and and scene rep/tax is added, you should be grateful that they're not more popular, less z's are broken for their engines and they're more of an unknown quantity, I'd have a VG over an RB any day and apart from the above the ONLY reason why RB's are more popular is because they're fitted to Skylines.

Back in '99 the American magazine Sport Compact Car published a series of articles on tuning the 300ZX. Called

Project Nissan 300ZX they were written by the highly regarded automotive engineer and journalist Mike Kojima.

 

Although published some while ago a lot of the information is still relevent today in understanding the VG30DETT's

original design and tuning potential. The two VG30DETT articles originally published in SCC are from Mike's own

website MotoIQ:

 

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1508/Engine-Tech-Building-the-Nissan-VG30DETT-part-1.aspx

 

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1672/Engine-Tech-Building-the-Nissan-VG30DETT-part-2.aspx

 

they were written by the highly regarded automotive engineer and journalist Mike Kojima.

 

I met Mike years ago at a Z event in the US and he does go to some ZCon events. Very interesting and the whole Z scene stateside hold him in high regard. I'll find out whether he'll be attended next year's event in Atlanta. ;)

 

I'll book flights for that soon and will give you the detail.