I've read over multiple respray posts on here and other sites but have a few questions too.

 

So I'm aware that cellulose paint is very frowned upon due to its lack of UV resistance, and am aware of the cyanide fumes from 2K paint.

 

I'll be respraying my Z in a strong gazebo on warm evenings over the next month or so using a HVLP paint gun, and a 50L 8 bar compressor. I have time so I'm fine with say, one coat a night or less.

 

Cellulose: Cheap, moderately easy to work with, but not great for a whole car and doesn't last very long if done incorrectly

2K: Expensive, easier to work with, great finish, lasts a long time, but huge issue with the fumes, especially me being outside with neighbours and housemates all around, then needing a special ventilated mask etc.

 

So..

 

What about water based paint? Is there another clear coat option?

 

Now what paint do you recommend I use, and how much do I need per coat? How many recommended coats?

 

Or should I just wrap it instead?!

 

Cheers

A DIY respray will look DIY and you will never be happy with it mate. My advice is go to a good spray shop.

Wrap it. Will cost you about £300 and it gets easier as you do more...

 

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You don't want to be painting with waterbased in an uncontrolled environment nor if you're inexperienced.

 

Honestly, unless you have access to proper equipment I'd sway you away from doing it especially under a gazebo in your garden. We've already have a number of failed attempts at this on here.

 

I'd only recommend 2k and the number of coats really depends on what you're spraying on top of.

 

Cellulose is dog shit and reacts easily and also degrades quickly. Waterbased, the base coat never full hardens so it becomes difficult if you need to correct anything unlike a 2k base which flashes off relatively quickly allowing you to work with it. Clear coat is always a 2k when using waterbased

 

For 2k, you need the correct BA and also a controlled environment.

 

As for wrap, change the w to a c and that's my response on that.

 

These cars have large panels and if you're painting a whole car, you really need to do it inside a building in a dirt-free environment whether that be in a paint booth or a a building where you can securely drape plastic sheeting and secure from the outside elements.

 

I have painted quite a bit in the past, self taught and what I did turned out well, but I only did small panels and wheels in my garage.

 

Unless I was hiring out a paint booth I wouldn't waste my own time let alone the money on materials.

 

In my opinion, you could prep as much as you can and give it to a bodyshop just to paint.

Edited May 31, 20178 yr by Funkysi

'll be respraying my Z in a strong gazebo on warm evenings over the next month or so

Do not paint outside in the evening.

As soon as the sun sets the air temperature drops. The drop in air temperature means that the air cant hold the same amount of moisture so the moisture then condenses out on any surface it can find. Metal is perfect. You wont see it happening but it happens.Look outside early in the morning and you will see "dew" on the grass. Same thing just more extreme..

This is one of the causes of "micro blistering" which happens a few weeks/months after a paint job in the wrong conditions.

 

Cellulose: Cheap, moderately easy to work with

Where did you get the idea that cellulose is moderately easy to work with?? Modern paints are much much easier to use.

Cellulose "cheap". ??? Really???. it may be cheaper per litre to buy but you will need gallons more of it cos it has poor coverage.

 

but huge issue with the fumes, especially me being outside with neighbours and housemates all around,

 

Whatever paint you use will give you issues with fumes....its the thinners not the paint that are the culprit. Cellulose worse than synthetic cos you need to use more thinners.

 

fine with say, one coat a night or less.

All your primer needs to be done in one session ideally..

All the basecoat and laquer needs to be done in one day ideally.

 

All of course IMHO

 

 

I'll get my coat................

Well.. definitely going to have to re-evaluate my situation hahah

My Dad owned a very success panel beating and spray facility for years and luckily for me I learnt the trade from a very young age (however, I didn't follow in his footsteps).

 

Just to reiterate what Si and Pete have said; it's a big NO to Cellulose!

 

Believe me when I say that Cellulose can take months to dry. Yes, after a day or two you are able to touch the paint and it may feel dry, however Cellulose will continue to release the thinning and bonding agents over extensive periods of time that you will not be able to recognize by touch; even in a forced heat environment the paint will still remain active. A recent post on here where a member came close to scrapping his car was partly due to using Cellulose and the subsequent paint reaction.

 

Remember also to consider the amount of layers that you will need to apply. Cellulose will take a lot longer to catch/flash dry meaning; dry enough that another layer of paint can be applied over the top, wet enough that the new layer binds and activates the bottom layer. This will all be a factor of outside temperature and humidity that unless you are a scientist or an experienced painter, you will be guessing.

 

In a nutshell, you wouldn't wrap Kate Middleton in a Primark outfit, so don't throw your money away by wrapping the Zed in a cheap alternative. Get it done once and properly and it should last another 25 years.

 

The only part of any vehicle that Cellulose used to be used on extensively was the chassis of vans and lorries, and only because it was cheaper than 2K and no one really cared about the finish.

 

All the best.

All replies noted and appreciated. Big no to cellulose, big no to painting in a non controlled environment.

 

It's currently largely sanded/multiple colours/patched having recently been fully welded and refurbed. Do you think a spray-can job of matt or satin red/black would make it look okay over winter till I can afford a proper respray or garage/equipment etc? It'll be off road till April next year anyway. Inefficient cost wise I know. But got another ongoing project for a daily that currently takes priority

 

I wouldn't mind the wrapped look but my fear is that I'd then want to respray it next year and have a nightmare getting it off again

Do you think a spray-can job of matt or satin red/black would make it look okay over winter till I can afford a proper respray or garage/equipment etc?

No not really. It will look like junk and you will have to spend ages sanding it down again so you can respray it properly.

Just think about it for a moment; why would you waste time and money on a rattle can paint job when it's going to be off the road anyway? It won't look great and you'd then have to take all that crap off of it again. The stuff you find in rattle cans IS generally cellulose anyway. Just wait until you can get it done properly. I'm sure if it's prepped to a high standard you can find a bodyshop to do a semi decent job for not an extortionate amount of money.

 

As a side note, running these cars on a shoestring will almost always end up in tears.

Edited June 1, 20178 yr by Funkysi

In my experience a decent enough job can be done on the driveway/ garage with the right equipment and 2k. However I wouldnt really advise it as it is a lot of hassle and hard work.

 

I painted my car myself and I think most would say it's quite a good job. However this took a huge amount of research and preparation to get things anywhere near right. It's also not quite up to the level I would like.

 

As an example, I was able to get a good finish after wet sanding and polishing.

 

 

A few things also to concider- I chose a solid white colour for most of the car- this is very forgiving.

 

As a final note- now that I have the funds to allow, I will no doubt be looking at a high quality full respray some time in the near future.

http://www.kraftwork-chelmsford.co.uk/car-body-repairs

 

[emoji108]

http://www.kraftwork-chelmsford.co.uk/car-body-repairs

 

[emoji108]

 

The guys that did Joel's car and they're currently doing my car! Not cheap at all, but good value considering the quality of product they produce!

Highly topical for me this too. I've got some imperfections that need correction and one of them is the direct result of cellulose going wrong. I haven't found a decent solution at present, I'm not going to lie the whole 2k thing sounds horrendous. Stories of death and wiping the garden of plants, doesn't sound appealing.

I'm not going to lie the whole 2k thing sounds horrendous. Stories of death and wiping the garden of plants, doesn't sound appealing.

 

Eh??? WTF are you on about???

Its not mustard gas in the paint????:lol:

Highly topical for me this too. I've got some imperfections that need correction and one of them is the direct result of cellulose going wrong. I haven't found a decent solution at present, I'm not going to lie the whole 2k thing sounds horrendous. Stories of death and wiping the garden of plants, doesn't sound appealing.

 

You are right to be cautious about 2K although horrendous is a little strong. 2K contains isocyanate that in large or continuous exposure is harmful to both your respiratory system and skin. Full ventilation respirator and spray suit you'll be fine.

Doing a 2K in the gazebo is realistically out of the question, agreed there. Landlord has an old Citroen in the garage, can probably persuade him to allow me to use the garage, but even then I'm not sure about 2K given the extraction requirement and how my landlord is just about to get some kittens!

 

Hypothetically, as the car is currently moostly painted in good ol rattle can red oxide primer (which looks alright to be honest) which was done during Summer last year to protect it ("temporarily"), would a another cellulose base coat with no clear coat work? As I hear most of the issues arise from the clear coat, slow drying solvent in the base coat evaporating with the suns heat/UV. Hypothetically! Do shout at me if it wouldn't

Eh??? WTF are you on about???

Its not mustard gas in the paint????:lol:

 

I know, have a Google though. More than one person has died from exposure to it. It's bloody dangerous stuff. Air fed masks and extraction is apparently mandatory for use.

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/2k-safety-leason-learnt.14051/

Although the HSE.gov makes no mention of death it does state about asthma and dermatitis due to repeated exposure. Regardless filling your garage or the neighbourhood with its gas appears a bad idea.

What safety procautions would you consider appropriate in your experience?

Edited June 1, 20178 yr by Stephen

Doing a 2K in the gazebo is realistically out of the question, agreed there. Landlord has an old Citroen in the garage, can probably persuade him to allow me to use the garage, but even then I'm not sure about 2K given the extraction requirement and how my landlord is just about to get some kittens!

 

Hypothetically, as the car is currently moostly painted in good ol rattle can red oxide primer (which looks alright to be honest) which was done during Summer last year to protect it ("temporarily"), would a another cellulose base coat with no clear coat work? As I hear most of the issues arise from the clear coat, slow drying solvent in the base coat evaporating with the suns heat/UV. Hypothetically! Do shout at me if it wouldn't

 

You were moving in the right direction for almost 10 hours.................Remember when you said 'Big no to Cellulose'? Stick with it buddy, you'll regret it if you continue to rattle can paint; possibly a full strip of all the paint you apply to be able to use 2K or water based in the future. Live with what you've got for now!

Here's my cellulose fail;

https://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?184662-Paint-Where-did-I-go-wrong/page2&highlight=Paint+reaction

And another https://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?185572-Paint-clear-coat-reaction-help-any-suggestions-VERY-welcome!

twice...

Doing a 2K in the gazebo is realistically out of the question, agreed there. Landlord has an old Citroen in the garage, can probably persuade him to allow me to use the garage, but even then I'm not sure about 2K given the extraction requirement and how my landlord is just about to get some kittens!

 

Hypothetically, as the car is currently moostly painted in good ol rattle can red oxide primer (which looks alright to be honest) which was done during Summer last year to protect it ("temporarily"), would a another cellulose base coat with no clear coat work? As I hear most of the issues arise from the clear coat, slow drying solvent in the base coat evaporating with the suns heat/UV. Hypothetically! Do shout at me if it wouldn't

 

You're going about this all the wrong way mate.

And another https://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?185572-Paint-clear-coat-reaction-help-any-suggestions-VERY-welcome!

twice...

 

Thrice.. https://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?187422-The-end-of-Project-Z

Thrice.. https://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?187422-The-end-of-Project-Z

Yeah so you get the picture, cellulose and aerosol are honestly going to give you more pain than its worth to get it all one colour.

 

In my mind you have two options.

1. Save up some cash over the year and take it to a proper bodyshop to get it resprayed, and do the prep work yourself etc.

2. Have a go if you want with 2k in a garage, don't expect it to be perfect but you are only spending money for the raw pain materials.

 

Others may disagree but that's what I put it down to.