As my search for a pair of OEM rear spats for a Shortie came up dry, I decided to do some hunting on the Net.

 

I came across a US firm called Ionic Dynamics who, believe it or not, make replicas of the very spats I was looking for! :D

 

See here.

 

Emails were sent, prices were agreed and an order was placed. It got stuck in Customs for a few days and I had to pay an extra £18 to get them delivered. They arrived this afternoon! :D

 

Sooo... you can only imagine my disappointment and horror when I compared them to the OEM set off a LWB I have here and found that they're identical! :(

 

Yep, they seem to have modelled them off the 2+2 rears, not the Shortie ones. :( :(

 

I've sent them an email to make them aware of this but I'm gutted. If I'd known, I'd have saved my money!!

 

So, all in all, that was a complete waste of time and money!! Sick as a chip.....

Want me to send those to José?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Where did you get the LWB originals from? Your black z?

 

I'm not prepared to send them at this point if I'm going to be £60 or so out of pocket, Si. I've explained to him that his website is incorrect and, had it been correct, I'd have never placed the order. I don't see why I should lose so much money simply because he wasn't aware of the differences.

 

The OEM's came off a black 2+2 on eBay last year. Whilst they do fit my Shortie (as do the Ionic Dynamics ones), they're not the correct size and shape for the 2+0 rear bumper.

Do you have any 2+0 ones for comparison? Just wondering what the differences are, that was all.

 

Is there anything I can help with?

This link shows the difference between the two variants, Si.

You going to send this information to José? Want me to?

You going to send this information to José? Want me to?

 

I've already sent it, Si. I copied my last response to him on the previous page.

 

I have a feeling that he'll stick to his guns though, regardless of his company's website being incorrect.

I've already sent it, Si. I copied my last response to him on the previous page.

 

I have a feeling that he'll stick to his guns though, regardless of his company's website being incorrect.

 

Are you aware that it's very impolite to post private correspondence on a public forum? I don't appreciate it at all, especially when you fail to mention it in our emails. How am I supposed to present my case if I am unaware of this thread?

 

First off, if you were aware of the size variations, then why didn't mention it to me and verify before ordering?

 

Secondly we have several installed pictures on our website. We even updated that webpage on October the 24th to include newer pics, that was 10 days before you submitted your order. So don't cry that you've been mislead.

 

Third, and most importantly, the item that you received is exactly as pictured and will work as described, with 2+0 or "SWB" fitment as it's called on this forum. The OEM mudgaurds are foam, and that's why they can be made to fit the SWB or LWB models, but not our version since it's fiberglass thus SWB fitment only.

 

My offer stands, I will offer you a full refund, minus the shipping costs.

 

Regards!

 

Jose.

Are you aware that it's very impolite to post private correspondence on a public forum? I don't appreciate it at all, especially when you fail to mention it in our emails. How am I supposed to present my case if I am unaware of this thread?

 

First off, if you were aware of the size variations, then why didn't mention it to me and verify before ordering?

 

Secondly we have several installed pictures on our website. We even updated that webpage on October the 24th to include newer pics, that was 10 days before you submitted your order. So don't cry that you've been mislead.

 

Third, and most importantly, the item that you received is exactly as pictured and will work as described, with 2+0 or "SWB" fitment as it's called on this forum. The OEM mudgaurds are foam, and that's why they can be made to fit the SWB or LWB models, but not our version since it's fiberglass thus SWB fitment only.

 

My offer stands, I will offer you a full refund, minus the shipping costs.

 

Regards!

 

Jose.

 

Jose, I'll address your points in order here:

 

1. I am aware that it can be impolite, yes. Are you aware that it is both impolite and incredibly poor business practice to offer goods for sale that aren't what you claim them to be? I started this thread here because this is an enthusiasts forum, so there will undoubtedly be other people like me who desparately want the correct parts for our cars - it therefore stands to reason that there may well be other owners who look at your website and assume (based on your very specific description) that your rear spats are direct replicas of the specific 2+0 parts, rather than (as you state in your third point above) parts that have simply been moulded to fit that variant!

 

2. Because of the description on your website that explicitly stated these spats were for the 2+0 model only, I felt I shouldn't have to clarify anything as you were clearly a company that was familiar with the Z32. The onus is on your description to be accurate and factually correct, Jose.

 

3. You may have updated your site, but I was still mis-sold as you do not supply the items you advertise! And please don't type things like "don't cry that you've been mislead" - it comes across as very unprofessional and rather childish.

 

4. I did indeed receive the parts as they were pictured and yes, they will fit my car but, and I simply can't stress this enough to you, they are not the parts I expected when placing the order! Nissan obviously designed the two different shapes of rear spats to compliment the lines and shapes of the different bumpers. As you stated yourself in email, you weren't aware of the size differences between the two, but that is your problem as the supplier, not mine as the unfortunate recipient.

 

I should not be forced to be so hugely out of pocket here just because your technical knowledge is lacking. At the very least, you should be offering to refund the cost of the items, the shipping and the Customs charges because, if your description had been accurate, I would never have incurred any of those charges.

 

I assume that this matter will now be dealt with here on this thread as I've received no further emails from yourself.

 

Regards,

 

Simon.

Edited November 19, 201411 yr by Mondo

I'm going to add to this as a suitable fictional analogy has come to mind:

 

A member PMs me from across the water and asks me to make a central armrest cover for their 2+2 Zed. I tell them that I have a spare lid here so I'll trim that and send it to them. They pay the asking price including international shipping, and I get to work.

 

When this member receives their new armrest, they find it's a little short at the back edge. This is because I've used a 2+0 lid when they asked for a 2+2 one.

 

They say it's not what they ordered and ask for their money back. I explain that it will fit their car (because both lids use the same fixing points) and offer a refund on the work but not the overseas shipping. I also expect them to cover the cost of shipping the incorrect part back to me.

 

As I said, the part will fit, but it won't look right. It's not the part the customer ordered and they are, quite rightly, very unhappy.

 

So, what would I be expected to do in this hypothetical situation?

 

1. Accept that I got a customer's order very wrong and refund all their costs as the error was mine.

 

2. Continue to offer the refund for the part only, based on the premise that "it will actually fit, therefore it's what they ordered."

 

Thoughts please, people...

I would say the onus is on you to use the right part, as it was on the supplier in the states, Under UK Law Ignorance is is not an excuse !

I think Simon fyi on the HM revenue and customs site there is a part that applies to the refund of charges from defective, damaged or whatever goods purchased from outside the EU, although in this case i don't see how getting that small part back will appease you.

I think Simon fyi on the HM revenue and customs site there is a part that applies to the refund of charges from defective, damaged or whatever goods purchased from outside the EU, although in this case i don't see how getting that small part back will appease you.

 

If I lose the £18 odd I paid in Customs charges then it's not the end of the world, Andy. What I'm objecting to (in the Paypal dispute I've opened this morning) is the premise I'll have to pay international shipping twice (roughly $130 in total) and only be compensated for the cost of the parts themselves.

 

As Tony so eloquently stated earlier: ignorance is no excuse!

I can only give my opinion on this sale it is not the opinion of the club or Committee just mine.

Firstly welcome to the forum Jose and as I have a Short Wheel Based 300zx (2+0) and the original OEM rubber rear mud flaps I can look at your website knowing exactly what you have on offer and that is Long Wheel Based (2+2) mud flaps that have been modified to fit the SWB rear bumper. Your website says "We have made no changes to the design." But clearly you have changed the profile of the LWB mud flaps to fit the SWB so any new owner will still get what they can have or already have in the OEM rubber ones which are to long compared to the correct size flaps. It is an easy mistake for somebody to read your description and think they are getting OEM like mud flaps so I think you need to make it more clear in your for sale add that it is a LWB mudflap with the profile cut to fit the SWB.

 

As for what happens between Mondo and you in the respect of a refund that is between the two parties concerned but your offer of a refund is a good first step but I can see Mondo's worry over shipping costs and maybe you could help him out there.

 

On a final note I do like your Website and wish you well but its when things go wrong customer care is paramount along with the customer being fair also.

If it is okay for me to put in my 2penny worth....... I personally would bite the bullet, refund in full and use it as a learning experience and change my website to avoid confusion with future customers......

Getting into a public disagreement can only hurt your business as it always puts off at least one potential future customer unfortunately...... as always seems to happen on any public forum...

Isn't it better to be seen by all reading of someones experience to go the extra mile to make sure customers are satisfied??

 

Not meaning to upset anyone or fuel an argument here, just hoping that Mondo and Jose can sort this out amicably.......

Maybe Mondo could sell the wrong part sold for Jose here in the UK to cover the shortfall?

Whilst Jose could refund the cost of the delivery from the US?

That way Mondo gets his refund, Jose gets his sale and there is no return postage costs to the US?????

 

Only a suggestion......

A gentleman would have at least waited for an outcome and informed the other party of their intent to publicly post their correspondence, excusing your self with my supposed "poor business practices" is no excuse.

 

Your only valid point is that our text description implies something that we did not intend. Because in any case these are J- spec replica rear mudguards, and our replica does only fit the 2+0 because they are not flexible. Thankfully the description also includes clear pictures to help guide customers.

 

The bottom line issue here is that you had the SOLE INTENT to acquire the SWB design variant. Even if we are a company familiar with the Z32 that doesn't make us a "know it all", specially with parts that were never sold here in the USA. You could have avoided this issue by communicating with us before that there are actual design variations other than just fitment differences between them, just to be safe and confirm.

 

We are not totally at fault here, as Gary Wilson has posted, he can tell that it's the LWB variant by just looking at the pictures. If there was any doubt then you should have contacted us or made a thread on here before ordering.

 

If you continue to be inflexible regarding your demands for a full refund then I will continue to be inflexible with my counter offer. I am very customer satisfaction oriented, but not when the customer has unreasonable demands and does not acknowledge their part in this situation.

 

As veilside01702 has noted, there are other resolution options here since this is not a common transaction and the shipping costs involved back and forth are very high. I am open to a partial refund without having you ship the parts back to us. The resolution has to be fair for both of us and not just for you.

 

And thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts on this thread. And big thanks to FunkySi for sending me the link regarding this thread. I have updated my website to reflect the information that we have learned.

 

Regards!

 

Jose.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jose, I'll address your points in order here:

 

1. I am aware that it can be impolite, yes. Are you aware that it is both impolite and incredibly poor business practice to offer goods for sale that aren't what you claim them to be? I started this thread here because this is an enthusiasts forum, so there will undoubtedly be other people like me who desparately want the correct parts for our cars - it therefore stands to reason that there may well be other owners who look at your website and assume (based on your very specific description) that your rear spats are direct replicas of the specific 2+0 parts, rather than (as you state in your third point above) parts that have simply been moulded to fit that variant!

 

2. Because of the description on your website that explicitly stated these spats were for the 2+0 model only, I felt I shouldn't have to clarify anything as you were clearly a company that was familiar with the Z32. The onus is on your description to be accurate and factually correct, Jose.

 

3. You may have updated your site, but I was still mis-sold as you do not supply the items you advertise! And please don't type things like "don't cry that you've been mislead" - it comes across as very unprofessional and rather childish.

 

4. I did indeed receive the parts as they were pictured and yes, they will fit my car but, and I simply can't stress this enough to you, they are not the parts I expected when placing the order! Nissan obviously designed the two different shapes of rear spats to compliment the lines and shapes of the different bumpers. As you stated yourself in email, you weren't aware of the size differences between the two, but that is your problem as the supplier, not mine as the unfortunate recipient.

 

I should not be forced to be so hugely out of pocket here just because your technical knowledge is lacking. At the very least, you should be offering to refund the cost of the items, the shipping and the Customs charges because, if your description had been accurate, I would never have incurred any of those charges.

 

I assume that this matter will now be dealt with here on this thread as I've received no further emails from yourself.

 

Regards,

 

Simon.

A gentleman would have at least waited for an outcome and informed the other party of their intent to publicly post their correspondence, excusing your self with my supposed "poor business practices" is no excuse.

 

Your only valid point is that our text description implies something that we did not intend. Because in any case these are J- spec replica rear mudguards, and our replica does only fit the 2+0 because they are not flexible. Thankfully the description also includes clear pictures to help guide customers.

 

The bottom line issue here is that you had the SOLE INTENT to acquire the SWB design variant. Even if we are a company familiar with the Z32 that doesn't make us a "know it all", specially with parts that were never sold here in the USA. You could have avoided this issue by communicating with us before that there are actual design variations other than just fitment differences between them, just to be safe and confirm.

 

We are not totally at fault here, as Gary Wilson has posted, he can tell that it's the LWB variant by just looking at the pictures. If there was any doubt then you should have contacted us or made a thread on here before ordering.

If you continue to be inflexible regarding your demands for a full refund then I will continue to be inflexible with my counter offer. I am very customer satisfaction oriented, but not when the customer has unreasonable demands and does not acknowledge their part in this situation.

 

As veilside01702 has noted, there are other resolution options here since this is not a common transaction and the shipping costs involved back and forth are very high. I am open to a partial refund without having you ship the parts back to us. The resolution has to be fair for both of us and not just for you.

 

And thanks to everyone who shared their thoughts on this thread. And big thanks to FunkySi for sending me the link regarding this thread. I have updated my website to reflect the information that we have learned.

 

Regards!

 

Jose.

 

I've highlighted something I feel is important in your response: Gary has owned a Z32 for many many years, whereas I haven't. He may be able to tell the two apart based on a side view, but I can't.

 

So my decision to buy was based solely on your description, in which you clearly stated that these spats were for the 2+0 model and would not fit the 2+2.

 

Now, the OEM Nissan spats for the 2+0 will not fit the longer car's bumper because the underside part is shorter and wider. As your site stated that these were directly moulded from original 2+0 mudguards and would not fit the 2+2, I believed I was ordering the part I wanted.

 

I shouldn't need to check that you know exactly what you're supplying because your site and descriptions suggested that your knowledge was good. But that's obviously a lesson learned for myself here.

 

I'd like you to explain how my "demands" are unreasonable please. My only "fault" here was trusting your knowledge and descriptions to be accurate, Jose! You want me to be out of pocket because your knowledge regarding a product that you make and sell was sadly lacking.

 

Regards,

 

Simon.

C'mon then... who thinks I'm being unreasonable here? I'm genuinely interested to know.

I don't think you're being unreasonable and would probably be as gutted as you. However, can also maybe see some of the other side as well....though at 1st I was definitely on your side.

 

After reading Joses responses, think we have to take in to account that we are dealing with a car that has different US, JDM and UK specs. Jose might be a US spec expert but as he said, they don't sell certain oem parts there for our models so obviously his knowledge on other specs might not be as great. As you said, Gary has owned a 300zx for some time so would have picked it up straight away, but would he be an expert on everything US spec? Possibly not.

 

I'm assuming the description on the sure has changed so can't look at the original, but was obviously slightly misleading. However, I probably would have triple checked by posting a link on the forum knowing I was ordering overseas which could get awkward if there were issues, and also with all of the different specs/variant complexities.

 

However, hindsight is a wonderful thing though so in the heat of the moment might have just gone and ordered!

C'mon then... who thinks I'm being unreasonable here? I'm genuinely interested to know.

 

It sure is annoying when you don't get what your expecting, but in answer to your question I would say it all depended on the wording of the original ad. I had a look at it and presume it has now been changed. If it originally went along the lines of an exact replica of the SWB then yes you have a valid point. However from the comments made at the start of the post it seems the claim was that the spats would only fit the SWB which is a bit different. Honestly don't think there is a right and a wrong here and a bit of blame on both sides neither of which was intended. What I would say is that I would not have been quite as quick to post up on the forum until all avenues had been exhausted.

C'mon then... who thinks I'm being unreasonable here? I'm genuinely interested to know.

 

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all.....

 

....But then I also do not think Jose is with his offer of a refund either....

 

All in all, I believe that buying goods from outside the UK/EU always carries an element of risk with regard to shipping and customs duties. Jose sold you some goods which were not, as it happened suitable/correct for your application/etc. You paid him US$ xxx and he offered to refund that amount in light of what has transpired - I think that is reasonable in the act of supplying goods only. If I were the seller, and speaking as a person in business, I would certainly not accept any consequential losses.

 

However if you do return the parts and obtain a refund of the purchase price, then I'd also say that HMRC would be liable to refund you the VAT and import duty - since you did not (in the end) actually import anything with a value!

 

Personally, I would take Jose's offer; then get in touch with HMRC to recover your VAT/duty costs - but accept that any extra carriage costs within the UK remain with you - and chalk the whole thing up to experience. Oh, and mitigate your losses further by getting Funky Si to take the parts back - thus saving you any further shipping costs!!

 

Richard:clover:

I appreciate everybody's feedback on this, so thank you.

 

I paid $155 including shipping for a pair of "J Spec replica rear mudguards for the 2+0 Z32." The description stated, as Gary has said, that no changes were made to the design and that they would only fit the SWB.

 

Based on that, I genuinely don't think that my assumptions regarding the spats were unfounded or unreasonable.

 

What I am genuinely annoyed at is the prospect of forking out $130 on two lots of international shipping, just to receive a $89.99 refund. No matter which way you look at that, the maths simply doesn't add up!!

 

Jose has then gone on to say that he was not aware of any variations, but that isn't my problem or my fault. If he wants to market a product to a specific vehicle derivative then the onus is on him to to do all and any research necessary to ensure that his product will fill the niche that he believes it will!

 

Surely people can agree with that??

 

I'm gonna refer again to my scenario about the armrest: if someone on here had ordered a LWB armrest from me and I sent them a SWB one and then told them that "it would fit therefore it's fine", I would be staring at a thread filled with comments demanding that I sort it out as the error was mine and the customer shouldn't have to suffer just because I made a mistake!!

 

My demands here aren't unreasonable in the slightest. I'm quite happy to send these spats down to FunkySi so he can take them over on his next trip - but I want $155 refunding first. How is that unreasonable? Why should I pay even $65 and have nothing at all to show for it?

 

How many people reading this would honestly be in my position and not be pushing for a full refund? Well?

 

For the record, I don't for a second believe that Ionic Dynamics intentionally marketted these incorrectly. The quality seems very good and their communication, until recently, was superb. But the fact remains that their product wasn't what they stated it was, so again I ask the question:

 

How many people reading this would be in my position and not want a full refund?

I appreciate everybody's feedback on this, so thank you.

 

........................so again I ask the question:

 

How many people reading this would be in my position and not want a full refund?

 

I agree with you in principal mate - I too would want a full refund - but as far as the seller is concerned, he has offered a full refund of what he received.

 

As I said, it's a risk buying from overseas - hence I don't do it - but Jose should refund you the purchase price plus what HE charged you for shipping. Then if you can recover the import duty from HMRC and have Si return the parts for you at no cost, what else are you down by (sorry - I haven't re-read the whole thread:oops: )?

 

If it's not much, then I'd still be a bit pissed off, but would grin and bear it:wink:

 

Good luck though Simon - I hope you do reach a satisfactory conclusion.

 

Richard

Thank you - at least you agree that the original $155 (including the original $65 shipping) should be refunded.

 

I'm prepared to wear the Customs charges if need be, and I'm prepared to pay out to send these spats down to Si (with tracking information, of course).

 

That way, Jose gets his parts back, I get refunded the money I paid to him and everyone gets something out of this.

 

As I said earlier, I've opened a Paypal dispute for the $155 - Jose will no doubt be aware of that already. Therefore the next move is his...

From what I understand you purchased what was advertised as swb mud flaps right? You have received lwb mudflaps? Do they fit? If the item you have received isnt the item you paid for and is unsuitable well that's pretty simple and clear and you should be entitled to a full refund. If you purchased matt white paint and the pot that turned up was actually gloss in the matt packaging that's the vendors responsibility and you should expect a full refund, I think that's quite a fair example.

From what I understand you purchased what was advertised as swb mud flaps right? You have received lwb mudflaps? Do they fit? If the item you have received isnt the item you paid for and is unsuitable well that's pretty simple and clear and you should be entitled to a full refund. If you purchased matt white paint and the pot that turned up was actually gloss in the matt packaging that's the vendors responsibility and you should expect a full refund, I think that's quite a fair example.

 

I'm not sure it's that 'black and white' Stephen. The spats are 2+0 specific and will only fit a 2+0, however they have seemingly been moulded from 2+2 spats (which are flexible rubber) and have been modified to fit the 2+0 only.

If I have an advert for a camel and when it arrives it a "cow" then I am at fault!

Sorry but please all accept the FACT that what was advertised is Not what was sold!

If I was your customer service manager I would be " in a fit " over this as your "bad press" is costing you CUSTOMERS!

Both reach an agreement !

You have sold a "pup" now redeem the situation!

 

Monty Python " dead parrot" comes to mind

Edited November 19, 201411 yr by 1Daveg