I fitted a contoured sub in my Z, ooooh, some 4 years ago now I think.

 

 

As far as subs go, it looks ok....it adds some bass..nothing mind blowing......but..... I kinda get slightly embarrassed when opening my boot and there to be seen is 'phat sub' sat there staring back. I know some like this look and are into competition builds or what have you but I really want rid of it. I'd benefit more with the boot space if I'm honest. I just don't like speakers on display.

 

My only trouble is, the 4 speakers that are powered from the head unit sound rubbish. Virtually no mid-range at all. Now, I've got an Alpine headunit and Alpine speakers all round. I've run new cabling. I've also applied sound deadening to the OEM tin speaker frames in the front as well as the Bose speaker boxes (which have been gutted) in the back.

 

I know sod all about ICE as I've never really wanted anything more than a nice head unit and 4 speakers. I added the sub as I had no bass. With it disconnected, the system sounds weak. The head unit is 4x45w I think, so you'd expect it to sound pretty good. Would it benefit from adding a small amplifier for these speakers? I really have little clue as to how to make it all sound a little better. Ideally, like the sound system in my new Jetta; sure, it has about 8 speakers, but clarity and mid-range is great. I do not need a number-plate rattling sub...in fact I don't want! I know nothing about impedance or RMS values which I know play a key role.

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

You could build some pods into the door and centre console

Some head units give what i call a general all round output which is then clouded by a pretty weak in built equalizer for varying types of sound ultimately dropping or adding certain frequencies in the range to make the difference, having good quality speakers obviously helps with the sound quality, but you could have the best speakers in the world and a half assed head unit built in amp will still struggle to give you the definition of the high, mid and lows.

 

A separate good quality amp and a parametric eq with crossover built in will make all the difference in achieving a better overall sound and still achieve good lows utilizing the crossover and eq.

 

I was in Andy Isherwoods car at JAE one year and the sound was amazing, brilliant clarity and crystal clear bottom end with definition. JL audio components and a nakamichi head unit.

 

I know what you are saying about some cars factory fitted ice, my mate had a Fiat Stilo and the bottom end was amazing considering there was no sub.

Thanks Graham. I also can't turn my head unit up above about vol.17 before I get distortion.

 

This is why I am confused, my head unit is pretty high spec and was one of the highest spec Alpine head units about when it was new (it's about 7 or 8 years old now)

if its possible amp up the 4 speakers you have in with a bit of adjustment through the amp and headunit you would get a much better sound

What is the impedance of your speakers? ie 8ohm, 16ohm you need to know the lowest impedance rating for the amp supplying each speaker.

 

Using a power amp you are likely to get a better load match between the amps output and the speaker ohm-age, for eg: 200watts @ 4 ohms, 400watts @2ohms, so the speakers would need to mach the required output.

 

Per channel

1xspk @4ohms 200w

2xspk @8ohms 200w

4xspk @16ohms 200w

 

2xspk @4ohms 400watt

4xspk @4ohms 400watt

 

Distortion is usually caused by overloading the output of the amp using incorrect impedance speakers or too much output from the amp into incorrect impedance speakers, exceeding the nominal output of the speaker.

up above about vol.17 before I get distortion

There's your problem, mate. You want one of those that go up to 11.

 

[seriously tho', there is a lot of bull thrown around about audio - perhaps even more in car audio. Two sterling principles: a) less is more and b) listen before you buy.

That means

a) Putting things in the signal path: amps, equalizers, neon lights - just degrade the quality. They may add volume but can only subtract from quality.

b) Your ears are right - they may not be as good as the snake-oil salesman's, but you do your listening with your ears, not his.

 

A head unit of that vintage may need replacing. I just put a JVC DAB unit in my Z and it has better bass and musicality than the old Sony head unit I had from some years ago and I haven't even put back the Panasonic sub.

 

Also remember that GIGO applies to audio as much as computing. Better to get the best quality head unit you can with budget speakers than a budget head unit with expensive subs, amps, equalizers and speakers.

 

Cars are a more extreme environment for audio than homes but even so, there has to be a reason why, eg Meridian have been chosen for Jag and Nissan chose Bose / Panasonic / other good audio brands for factory fit.]

Also remember that most head units are rated at 45 per channel output, which is peak power, not continuous, so you can at least half that figure to gauge what the head unit is really giving you.

 

Gio made a vaild point regarding the sound inside the car when driving, certain frequencies created by road or wind noise within the car can cancel out the frequencies produced from the head unit, which is why the sound changes at standstill compared to cruising at 70 on a motorway, so although adding a good equalizer unit in line can go some way to degrade the signal quality, boosting or cutting certain frequencies can compensate for the loss of clarity or definition caused by road noise.

 

When i run my PA system a graphic equalizer is used to cut the horrible frequencies in a room caused by bad accoustics and taking into account speaker placement on or around the stage in close proximity of microphones, the same principle applies in cars, you should use the equalizer to compensate rather than as a happy smiley face, tone control lol

Do you have 1 sub in the boot or 2 funkysi?

Just bin the bloody thing! I can't believe you have a subdoofer! :pinch: Honestly I use mine in the zed so little I forget I've even got one at times. I was singing to myself on the way to Haynes for a good 20 minutes before I remember I could press play. You don't really want "banging tunes" do you?

Hi Si, If you have speakers in standard holes then they will sound pants in the back.....

The front holes can be used for some decent uprated speakers with good top end, mid and mid bass......

The rears are small oval ones and you will get top end and mid..... they are quite simply too small for any bass.... so it will sound like something is missing....

your best bet is to remove the sub and make covered panels either side with 6x9 speakers in them..... you can hide them behind the cloth..... No speakers on show....

A 4 way Amplifier to power the front door speakers and 6x9's and you can get a decent sound..... you could even leave the rear speakers in situ and use them for top end and midrange powered from the head unit.....

The boxes for 6x9 could be quite small and covered so you can't see the speakers and look as stock as possible....

Only my 2p worth..... I could do some designs if you want?

Russ

Si has the Bose rear boxes which accommodate a 6" speaker.

Si has the Bose rear boxes which accommodate a 6" speaker.

Lucky Git...... get some good quality 6" in there then and a quality 4 way amplifier......

Thanks y'all.

 

I have already upgraded the speakers. Alpine direct replacements all round. I might go for better fronts with seperate tweeters. Currently, they're two-way. I want components for the front I think which a much larger magnet that can handle more power.

 

So the general consensus is that I should get a driver for all 4 speakers? I might get cross overs, but I am a little concerned about space behind the doors. I am not one for simply bolting them to the door card as, imo, that is a terrible look.

plenty of space in the door panel between the vent and window switches for crossover, i hot glued mine in place and not had any problems or go for a discreet install of an EQL in the boot ( i used the space where the ploystyrene tray sits on pass side) and run extra wires for the tweeters

Is it essential I get cross overs?

....something like this for the fronts?

 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=140917755516

If you are having separate tweeters then yes you will need a crossover otherwise you will get full range through the tweeter too and apart from sounding pants, likely to blow it. The crossover will split the higher frequency range say 250khz so that only frequencies above 250 can get to the tweeter, the 6.5 will handle everything else below that down to 65hz.

 

The link is ideal for the fronts :thumbup1:

....something like this for the fronts?

 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=140917755516

Is it essential I get cross overs?

They come with crossovers.....

If you are going to use an amplifier you will need to look at the RMS value for the output of the amplifier and the speakers.....

If the Amplifier is say 100W RMS and the speakers are 80W RMS you will blow them..... If the speakers were 300W RMS you are seriously under driving them....

What speakers are in the rear?

Size and Rating (RMS)?

If you want to sell the sub FunkySi I am looking for one.... Best, W

They come with crossovers.....

If you are going to use an amplifier you will need to look at the RMS value for the output of the amplifier and the speakers.....

If the Amplifier is say 100W RMS and the speakers are 80W RMS you will blow them..... If the speakers were 300W RMS you are seriously under driving them....

What speakers are in the rear?

Size and Rating (RMS)?

 

I'll have to take them all out and look. What would be the state of play if I had different rated speakers front and rear?

Replace existing sub with a stealth box.

Replace existing sub with a stealth box.

 

You missed out, I recently sold my JL stealth box to bigh. I'd say that would've been ideal for your requirements.