After mondays reconstruction day the the Collision Investigation Unit at TRL, one of the tests that were conducted was the braking abilities of the 300zx. The standard was set by a fully laiden 58 reg Mercedes Vito van, with a gross weight of 3 tonnes. 3 300zx's were used in the test. I cannot personally vouch for the condition of the other 2 zeds brakes, but i can confirm that following a check 6 weeks ago, my brakes are in full working condition with no seized pistons etc etc etc. The conditions were slightly damp, and the same bit of tarmac was used for the runs, so therefore i have given the average figures.

 

The test was conducted at 30mph, using a fixed braking point for each run.

 

Here are the Results:

 

Merc Vito Van generated 0.96G's

 

The average braking force generated was 0.69G's and a braking distance a ful 14 FEET FURTHER that the Vito Van.

 

Now thinking it isnt unusual to see these types of vehicles in the outside lane of the motorway, i think its pretty disconcerting to know that it will stop 14 feet shorter than you at just 30mph, never mind average cruising speeds in the outside lane of a motorway!!!!!

 

The biggest thing we notice was how inadequate the zeds ABS system is in comparison to a modern car, the zeds abs is sooooooooo slow at braking and releasing in comparison to a modern car.

 

Food for thought for those planning their next modification.

 

Nick

There you have it now we have legitimate proof that zed brakes are shite. lol

Brembo Brakes For everyone!!!! I sense a group buy coming soon :P

pmsl i didn't need science to tell me that :rofl:

Did all three Z's have stock brakes ?

 

It would be very interesting to put together a 300zx brake test.

Standard v standard with bigger discs v R34 brembo setup v 6 pot upgrade etc.

Same bit of tarmac etc.

I know that the brakes i have on now are miles better than the big disc convertion i had on :)

scary stuff but not at all surprising!

is it easy to swop brakes around? Is it best to get new discs and calippers to improve braking?

new everything, bigger discs, pads, bigger calipers, rears too, brake brace, hoses, the lot.

Edited December 10, 200817 yr by j1mmytt
Bigger is better in this case :D

new everything, discs, pads, calipers, rears too, brake brace, hoses, the lot.

 

hold your horses. That's a lot of money on new Standard stuff that could be better spent elsewhere.

You should also note Nick's comment on the ABS system...

hold your horses. That's a lot of money on new Standard stuff that could be better spent elsewhere.

You should also note Nick's comment on the ABS system...

 

sorry i meant uprated everything :D bigger dics/calipers etc :D

Then there is also the issue raised by JeffTT about what happens to ABS when you upgrade your disks, calipers..

 

The must be an upgrade for maximum braking (disks, calipers, hoses, pads) that increases the size and efficency of all components AND allows ABS to work safely.

The stoptech advice is relevant, but the R33 upgrade does work well with the ABS on a stock zed, I believe if you go bigger than that, then there are issues arising.

 

The thing about this test is it is comparing brakes on a 15 year old without having their calipers rebuilt and no knowledge of when the brake fluid was renewed, also I presume the van is relatively new?

Really scary but confirms how I felt about mine. Before I got mine, I read on the web about the great brakes on the Zed, but found mine to be severly lacking in comparison to my other vehicles systems

ABS is not intended to decrease stopping distance, it is to allow the driver to maintain steering control under heavy braking, in a situation where non-ABS equipped vehicles would lock up and skid out.

 

It is recognised that ABS vs non-ABS on an otherwise like for like vehicle could result in an increase stopping distance.

 

Like has been posted, it is down to the overall condition and functionality of any particular setup, and remember that braking is also affected by tyres, pressures, condition of the suspension etc etc, all of which were designed in the late 80's.

 

The results are hardly surprising, as although it may be hard to admit, the Zed is old technology. In a world where design is moving so fast, and consumer perception of safety is king, even basic model vehicles are coming better equipped than mid range models of even a few years ago.

yeah there is a 20 year difference in the cars being tested, put a 60s car in the same test and i'm sure it would stop 14feet in front of the z

All I know is that since installing the full 350Z setup, my major limitation is now tyre grip. Granted I do have a set of cheap tyres on it currently, but it's really easy to lockup in the dry. Of course when they lock up - that's when the slow ABS comes into play !

here's a shocker that most wont believe - The 300zx stock Braking distance is still better than most modern cars !

 

Nissan 300zx Stock braking distance 60-0mph = 116ft

 

Most modern sports cars are 110-120ft and most modern family cars are more like 130ft

 

Braking distance is more about tyre grip than braking force.

 

I cant find any braking distance tests for the Vito online though, but unless it has better braking than mercedes car range then I'd still say none of your brakes were working correctly.

 

If the ABS was kicking in then the brakes are stopping you as quickly as tyre grip will allow. Bigger brakes wont necessarily reduce the stopping distance, just the initial bite/response and reduces brake fade. If ABS was'nt kicking in...then there is a brake torque problem.

 

What they suck at is initial bite, brake fade and boiling brake fliud with prolonged use due to overheating (such as at the track).

Edited December 10, 200817 yr by Yowser

why do people always go straight to bigger this and bigger that with brakes, why not go better this and better that

 

Eg: Similar size slotted and grooved discs, better pads such as EBC redstuff etc, and better brake fluids?

 

I put some EBC Turbogroove discs and EBC redstuff pads on a scooby a while back and the difference was rediculas.

Am i not right in thinking the major problem is 'brake fade'?

yeah there is a 20 year difference in the cars being tested, put a 60s car in the same test and i'm sure it would stop 14feet in front of the z

 

What makes me laugh is that the government are still using stopping distance figures taken from testing of a Ford Anglia about 40 years ago! A car with no servo assistance, a car with drum brakes all round. A car with stone age technology.

 

I went to a speed-choice workshop about 4 years ago and I brought all this up when they started quoting braking distances etc. Do you want to know what their 'educated' response was? "Well, cars are much heavier now, so whilst brakes have been improved, overall braking distance have remained almost the same". Utter *****cks. I didn't carry on with my argument as I know full well how much BETTER a new fiesta is a braking over a 40 year dinosaur!

why do people always go straight to bigger this and bigger that with brakes, why not go better this and better that

 

Eg: Similar size slotted and grooved discs, better pads such as EBC redstuff etc, and better brake fluids?

 

I put some EBC Turbogroove discs and EBC redstuff pads on a scooby a while back and the difference was rediculas.

Am i not right in thinking the major problem is 'brake fade'?

 

I did better pads and better (read different) discs and it made little difference. That was probably because my old setup was probably still in good condition with no seized pistons etc. I did drive Timmy Turbo's car with standard setup and it was absolutely lethal ! No grab, no feel, would have been outbraked by a supertanker ....

the bottom bit sounds like mine

Group buy on Merc VITO Van brake kits??? lol

here's a shocker that most wont believe - The 300zx stock Braking distance is still better than most modern cars !

 

Nissan 300zx Stock braking distance 60-0mph = 116ft

 

Most modern sports cars are 110-120ft and most modern family cars are more like 130ft

 

Braking distance is more about tyre grip than braking force.

 

I cant find any braking distance tests for the Vito online though, but unless it has better braking than mercedes car range then I'd still say none of your brakes were working correctly.

 

If the ABS was kicking in then the brakes are stopping you as quickly as tyre grip will allow. Bigger brakes wont necessarily reduce the stopping distance, just the initial bite/response and reduces brake fade. If ABS was'nt kicking in...then there is a brake torque problem.

 

What they suck at is initial bite, brake fade and boiling brake fliud with prolonged use due to overheating (such as at the track).

 

I dont think i explained the point we noticed with the ABS too well, its not how quick the ABS kicked in, i would say on all three cars observing from the outside, the ABS kicked in at the correct time. The big, no, mahoooosive difference was the speed in which the abs operated on the zed in comparison to the merc. The zed was a very noticeable (from inside and standing outside) on-of-on-of-on-of, whilst the merc was sooooooooooo quick at applying releasing and reapplying, it was easily milliseconds between each application of the brakes.

 

I can only tell you that i know my brakes are in good working order, like i said before, i gave the average results instead of the best performance that was recorded. Agreed a few of us may have "like new brakes", but the vast majority of zed owners dont, so this deffinatly gives info to the masses more than anything else.

 

Group buy on Merc VITO Van brake kits??? lol

 

Thats EXACTLY what all 3 of us said.

 

The whole point of this was giving people independant results of 3 random zeds, all 3 of which are in a dam sight better condition than some of the zeds that are floating about (no offence intended), an independant test against a brand new vehicle, and the differences found between them

Edited December 10, 200817 yr by nickz32

here's a shocker that most wont believe - The 300zx stock Braking distance is still better than most modern cars !

 

Nissan 300zx Stock braking distance 60-0mph = 116ft

 

Most modern sports cars are 110-120ft and most modern family cars are more like 130ft

 

Braking distance is more about tyre grip than braking force.

 

I cant find any braking distance tests for the Vito online though, but unless it has better braking than mercedes car range then I'd still say none of your brakes were working correctly.

 

If the ABS was kicking in then the brakes are stopping you as quickly as tyre grip will allow. Bigger brakes wont necessarily reduce the stopping distance, just the initial bite/response and reduces brake fade. If ABS was'nt kicking in...then there is a brake torque problem.

 

What they suck at is initial bite, brake fade and boiling brake fliud with prolonged use due to overheating (such as at the track).

 

I'm not shocked mate - I don't have a huge brake upgrade - just 3G grooved discs and Mintex pads. I've had the calipers cleaned and new fluid every 2 years and my ZX stops just fine. My daily driver is a 2006 Merc SLK350 yet I'd happily say my ZX can hold its own against it in the braking department. You're right about the initial bite thing though; the SLK does feel sharper the instant I press the pedal but in stopping from a high speed there's very little in it!

 

I dont think i explained the point we noticed with the ABS too well, its not how quick the ABS kicked in, i would say on all three cars observing from the outside, the ABS kicked in at the correct time. The big, no, mahoooosive difference was the speed in which the abs operated on the zed in comparison to the merc. The zed was a very noticeable (from inside and standing outside) on-of-on-of-on-of, whilst the merc was sooooooooooo quick at applying releasing and reapplying, it was easily milliseconds between each application of the brakes.

 

I can only tell you that i know my brakes are in good working order, like i said before, i gave the average results instead of the best performance that was recorded. Agreed a few of us may have "like new brakes", but the vast majority of zed owners dont, so this deffinatly gives info to the masses more than anything else....................

 

I can agree also - and I'd say it's the same for any 15+ year old car, not just a ZX. It's so important on a heavy fast car like a ZX to ensure that the brakes are kept in the best working order possible!

 

Richard:cool:

IIRC the brake fluid should be changed every two years and can I urge people to change it as it makes a hell of a differance, remember the abs unit needs bleeding as well!

 

 

I think the lesson is how many zeds are out there with crappy brakes, i.e. pads/discs/fluid/calipers and it looks like this may have contributed to ending a zedders life :(