Recently a kid in S.Wales, bought a 300ZX Manual TT. A couple of months after this he killed it because as it was put "the back stepped out". Now I know that 300HP rear wheel drive cars at granted the higher end of the market, regularly come with track sessions to teach the driver how to control the car.

 

Should specialist dealers offer the same thing to their customers for cars such a Zeds?

 

Should dealers not sell to the cars to kids?

 

Is it a little irresponsible?

 

No offence to dealers who, just a talking point. Kids are a little club footed and I personally find it irresponsible for them to sell a car that could kill them, or worst still someone else, as they haven't a clue how to drive them.

what a load of fvkin shite !!!!!!!! the trouble here is the youth of today just dont take sound advice and listen to there elders,instead they go around cok sure thinkin they know everything about everything (got 2 working for me now) just cant tell em nothing because they wont listen to anyone :rant: how the fvk can a dealer be made to blame for some half wit thinking he or her shit dont stink, whats going to happen here will be

1 they send a older friend in to buy it

2 probally get a "forged" driving experience certificate

3 get micky mouse driving schools popping up making big wonga on desperate kids

4 make private sellers responcable for checking experience certificates

theres no such thing as a dangrous road or car its the tosspots that drive on them and in them :nono:

I speak to a lad out in New Zealand. He's 17 and owns/runs a 300zx Twin Turbo. Mad isn't it. But hey, he has hd the car for a year, been driving it since he was 16...the legal age to drive in NZ and he has a level head on his shoulders and doesn't drive everywhere like a muppet.

ok so there are a lot of valid points. I was asked if I was a dealer would i sell a 300hp machine to a kid...my answer would be no. I want the buyer of the car to buy it enjoy it and have the cash to keep it on the road by coming to me for parts services etc... i wouldn't want to potentially kill my customers. As a private sale..still no, as i want to know my baby has gone to a good home.

I speak to a lad out in New Zealand. He's 17 and owns/runs a 300zx Twin Turbo. Mad isn't it. But hey, he has hd the car for a year, been driving it since he was 16...the legal age to drive in NZ and he has a level head on his shoulders and doesn't drive everywhere like a muppet.

 

That's why I think that any limitations should be based on experience and not age.

 

There are many young drivers in this club who I'm sure are much better drivers than me as they have track and/or drag experience and therefore know the characteristics of the Zed much better than I do. I haven't even skidded mine yet, even in this weather!

ok so there are a lot of valid points. I was asked if I was a dealer would i sell a 300hp machine to a kid...my answer would be no. I want the buyer of the car to buy it enjoy it and have the cash to keep it on the road by coming to me for parts services etc... i wouldn't want to potentially kill my customers. As a private sale..still no, as i want to know my baby has gone to a good home.

 

Perhaps that's why you're not a dealer lol

That's why I think that any limitations should be based on experience and not age.

 

There are many young drivers in this club who I'm sure are much better drivers than me as they have track and/or drag experience and therefore know the characteristics of the Zed much better than I do. I haven't even skidded mine yet, even in this weather!

 

Kinda agree, in much the same way as I'm sure that there are older owners who give their cars absolute death and take it right to the limits on every drive. Whereas I open the car up occasionally, but prefer to cruise in it rather than use it as a street-machine.

WTF has it got to do with the seller?!?!? any inexperienced driver could crash regardless of age!

unless a law is passed preventing the sale of high powered cars to young drivers then i dont see that it is irresponsible!

 

ok so then it's got to do with experiance... fact you drivers have high ins, because they show off, do their makeup, or generally make the act of driving 3rd or 4th on there prioritry list when driving. The older generation, are less inclined to nake the same mistakes, regardless of exp. You can't artgue with the facts.

There is a point to be made here but not the one you are making.

Why should some one else always resposible for other people's actions?

If I sold you a kitchen knife legally for use in a kitchen and you go stab some one, why should I be resposible?

 

Its about time people took resposibility for what THEY did.

 

The point should be, should there be a power restirction on cars on new drivers like there are for bikes?

I like this...

blame the parents..... they should be teaching their kids the dangers of life....

 

And if the kids dont wanna listen :xxx:

 

lets not get into the whole nature nurture debate.

 

I still think dealers should offer as part of the sale price, time in a controlled env, so people of any can learn to a powerful car such as a zed.

lets not get into the whole nature nurture debate.

 

I still think dealers should offer as part of the sale price, time in a controlled env, so people of any can learn to a powerful car such as a zed.

yea great idea :confused: so the kid drives like aunty doreen for half a day to get the dealers approval then leaves the forcourt with a stinkin hard-on and you expect him to drive the same way going home to show his mates :rofl: :rofl: come on dude get real here

im sorry thats cod5hit.

 

i bought my zed having been used to small engined fwd cars. i had no experience driving them at all and i have killed niether myself or the car as i have been careful and sensible, its not the dealers or the cars fault its the silly idiots that think they are bloody jensen buttons fault when things go tits up.

 

every time we buy a carving knife should house of fraser send us on a course on dealing with dangerous weapons?

 

its the owners fault

 

that my quidsworth anyway

 

I agree, BUT...women are, "apparently" better, more careful drivers...statistically speaking... Ok enough with the postitive sexism... :-)

 

As for the knife comment, c'mon, if a you where selling a knife to someone you though may not have been of sound mind, would you sell it to them?

 

The same goes for young drivers (or inexperienced one)...They are more likely to show off that you or I, not that I'm saying you're old.

should be like the restrictions put on young bikers, let them have a choice of lesser powered machinery before letting them lose with the high powered stuff, although this does not stop a new biker from passing his test going to a suzuki dealership and buying a GSXR 1000 and having them restrict it to 35bhp getting the certificate to prove its restricted, and then getting it home and removing the restriction.

 

but the only real limiting factor is experience......I used to ride sportsbikes real fast and in fact rebuilt a ZXR750 to World Endurance Spec (kawasaki france won the title 3 times in a row '89 to'92 i think) took it to the IOM for the TT in 2005 and raced a mate round the mountain section........fastest i've ever been in my life (when i've been in control), some way up hailwood rise we looked at each other and slowed down, the scary thing is that at 186 i (we) thought it safe enough to look at each other, when we stopped i spent some time thinking about the mess somebody would have had to clean up if i had lost it, or the good times i would miss for a few seconds of adrenilin.

 

I still dont drive / ride like a granny, but stay well within my limits......

should be like the restrictions put on young bikers, let them have a choice of lesser powered machinery before letting them lose with the high powered stuff, although this does not stop a new biker from passing his test going to a suzuki dealership and buying a GSXR 1000 and having them restrict it to 35bhp getting the certificate to prove its restricted, and then getting it home and removing the restriction.

 

but the only real limiting factor is experience......I used to ride sportsbikes real fast and in fact rebuilt a ZXR750 to World Endurance Spec (kawasaki france won the title 3 times in a row '89 to'92 i think) took it to the IOM for the TT in 2005 and raced a mate round the mountain section........fastest i've ever been in my life (when i've been in control), some way up hailwood rise we looked at each other and slowed down, the scary thing is that at 186 i (we) thought it safe enough to look at each other, when we stopped i spent some time thinking about the mess somebody would have had to clean up if i had lost it, or the good times i would miss for a few seconds of adrenilin.

 

I still dont drive / ride like a granny, but stay well within my limits......

nice story ;) now wheres my "streetfighters" mag

yea great idea :confused: so the kid drives like aunty doreen for half a day to get the dealers approval then leaves the forcourt with a stinkin hard-on and you expect him to drive the same way going home to show his mates :rofl: :rofl: come on dude get real here

Not what I'm saying at all.

 

Give the kid track time to GO nuts...if they get some idea of what the can do, they will be less likely to try and replicate this on public road...One spin into a gravel pit, at high speed, they'll 5h1t themselves... They do that on the road and there are lamposts, pedestrians, other cars, curbs, walls...etc...

 

If they then choose to go nuts, it's not because they weren't prepared or aware of the potential pit falls.

 

I've done a number of track session in my time and it's taught me to respect the road....before that...yes I did go slightly of the rails but was lucky enough (note note talented enough) to get away with being reclass and that was in a 1.6 with 80 bhp.... 300 hp is a whole different ball game and drivers not just you need to be prepared...

 

By the way I pick up my first Z in March.... So I'm in the category of the z myself...but I know I'll be sensible, because I drive almost slow enough to drive miss daisy.

i also think you will find the majority of bikers killed are older

who years ago rode old heavy bikes, when they get older and have the income to go straight to a high powered machine they don't realise how much

bikes have altered UNTIL it's to late

 

lol have you actually seen the way some of these kids drive their 1.1's

without looking at accident reports etc i wouldnt mind betting most youngest involved in accidents are driving saxos/corsas etc driven to the limit

hence the insurance companies have already "restricted" them from driving high powered machines by pricing them out of the market until older

Just a though so if car dealers have to offer a drivers course, where does that put the private individual selling his fast powerfull car, will they have to offer the same?

i also think you will find the majority of bikers killed are older

who years ago rode old heavy bikes, when they get older and have the income to go straight to a high powered machine they don't realise how much

bikes have altered UNTIL it's to late

 

Lot of truth in that. I was a motorcyclist in my teens (50 years ago!) and progressed up to a Triumph Tiger100 Sports which was a 500cc pretty fast machine for it's day. I could ride it as naturally as if it was part of me, even at 100+ I was always comfortable and in control. I bought my next bike, a Kawasaki 1000TSR when I was in my late 50's and I remember being scared s***less when I took my first corner. Even though I had that bike for about ten years I was never comfortable on it right up until I sold it last year.

sounds like another idea to legeslate motoring just what we need ;) (young z driver) lol

lets not get into the whole nature nurture debate.

 

I still think dealers should offer as part of the sale price, time in a controlled env, so people of any can learn to a powerful car such as a zed.

 

 

zeds arent even that powerful anyway theres a lot more powerful cars out there and as for providing time in a controlled environment, sorry no, surely that is saying to youngters "hey you bought a fastcar we will teach you how to handle it when going fast"

 

surely that is saying its ok to drive at speed because you can handle it

 

surely that is encouraging them to break the law and the speed limit?

My personal opinion is that 'No' dealers should not be forced, that would be far too nanny state :nono:

 

If i were a dealer or a personal seller though, i would advise any young driver to get some professional training. As people have said it does'nt really matter whether it's a 1.1 or a 3.0 twin turbo, without any experience of handling a car over a period of time, then it's a lethal weapon in any new or young drivers hands. Further, the same young driver might have written off a 1.1 fiesta driving it in the same gung ho manner...

 

I personally feel that the general standard of driving in this country is crap and the root cause of issues on our roads. The driving test should incorporate a pre-lim test before you are allowed anywhere near the road!! It should include a minimum track/centre driving time, in order to build up experience on handling a vehicle and should also include reversing through cones using your mirrors, several reverse park manouvers, skid control in the wet, skid pan control to simulate ice etc etc. They should also switch you between front and rear wheel models so you're aware of the differences! That would solve alot of the fatalities in this country and teach people how to handle ANY type of car. :rant:

 

The amount of people i've seen on my estate today driving down a steep snow covered hill riding on their brakes and skidding around the bend at the bottom is unbelievable, and these were all middle aged drivers who i assume have some experience under thier belts! :rant:

WTF has it got to do with the seller?!?!? any inexperienced driver could crash regardless of age!

unless a law is passed preventing the sale of high powered cars to young drivers then i dont see that it is irresponsible!

 

Exactly! :rant:

 

It not like a drug dealer who is held at fault for selling dope to someone who ODs. At present, (but who can say with this government ;) ) drugs are illegal and high powered cars are not.

 

Let's face it, most young guys would love a fast/flash car so if they can afford it then they buy one. The car dealers are just doing a job, it is not their responsibilty to vet potential purchasers for someone who will wrap the car around a tree in 2 weeks.

 

If a young inexperienced driver crashes through reckless driving, inappropriate for the prevailing road conditions then it's the driver's own fault. The driver should take responsibility for his own actions.

 

Richard :nono: