http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3607115.stm

 

Don't know about you, but I HATE the idea of these :mad:

I want to be able to walk around without having to take a piece of card with me that tells me who I am. And be arrested for it if I don't!

 

It'll be barcodes printed on your forehead next.

Well the first stage to test the water is the Photo ID driver license. Just to try and get people used to the idea of carrying credit card ID. Very clever.

So Matz you don't carry your driving licence with you or a credit card at all?

I dont have a problem with it at all. Where is the hassle in having a card with your info on?

 

No different then when police ask to see your drivers licence.

I welcome the idea with open arms.........

 

I was stopped by the police the other day, no reason but I was.......they asked me who I was etc.......he went off to patrol car came back and said, okay everything is in order and you are who you say you are, thanks for your co-operation...

 

I asked what was in order? He said, your clean license, insurance, mot and tax are all valid and in date......no producer! :D

 

If I can carry a card with my picture on it that explains all about me, i.e. age, blood group, allergies, wether I am allowed to be in this coutry, address, next of kin, donor details, birthday, etc, etc, etc, etc.........as far as I am concerned they can put my whole life stroy on there....

 

I think it should be done ASAP.........maybe we wouldn't have so many people in the coutry that have 'sneaked' in........and people could be 'stung' in the right way if they have done something wrong as they would have no place to hide, i.e. giving false details!!

 

Infact..............CHIP US ALL...........LMAO........(maybe I'd quicker if I'd been chipped!!) :D

 

Matty.

If I can carry a card with my picture on it that explains all about me, i.e. age, blood group, allergies, wether I am allowed to be in this coutry, address, next of kin, donor details, birthday, etc, etc, etc, etc.........as far as I am concerned they can put my whole life stroy on there....

 

Matty.

 

That's an interesting one. Ever heard of Identity theft? And no, I do not carry my driving liccence, and all my CCs just say T Scrivens so no first name or gender either.

 

I prefer it that way, why should we have Big Brother following and tracking us and our movements?

 

We will soon see bar codes on number plates and GPS systems fitted in cars. Just think about that for a minute. No need for speed cameras. You'll just get a NIP through the post because you couldn't have got from point A to point B without breaking the speed limit. Oh and just think, they could tell were you are every minute of the day should they so wish.

 

I am an honest law abiding character, so have nothing to fear from carrying a ID card, I just feel it is an infringement of our civil liberties. Hey, you couldn't even walk the dog without taking your ID card with you - Sod that for a game of soldiers!

 

Tim

So Matz you don't carry your driving licence with you or a credit card at all?

 

Yep I do generally. But I don't HAVE to carry them by law.

 

Reasons I don't like them:

 

1) You will have to pay for them.

2) You may have to carry it with you all the time, walk the dog, pop around to a neighbour or see some friends. If a copper asks you for it and you don't have it you may get a fine or a record, even if you haven't done anything wrong.

3) They will be forged first by professional thieves/terrorists then by low life scum so what is the point in the end?

4) Sounds a bit big brother this one, but they will inevitably lead to the government / large organisations keeping a whole range of information about you on their databases = less privacy.

5) If you argue "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about" why not have a "No curtains" policy for households. Just because you are not doing anything wrong, doesn't mean you want otyhers to know what you are doing.

 

Mainly it's because I don't agree it will reduce crime/fraud/illegal immigration or terrorism. Do other countries who already have ID cards have none of these? So it is essentially a way of keeoping tabs on me and I don't like it.

 

Matt.

Data Protection Act.

 

Many countries already have I.D. cards, free european countries... I think you're being a bit paranoid, they seem to get by without living in some orwellian nightmare society. In fact I'd go as far to say that the quality of life is actually better in a lot of these countries. (yes, I have lived and worked in them)

 

I welcome them for my own 'selfish' reasons. My house was broken into while i was sleeping and my car stolen along with some money. What I didn't realise at the time was that they had taken my wallet with driving licence & some bills & a handful of my wage slips. they then went the next day and bought a car in a few hours on finance in my name. Then sold the car to an unwitting buyer. I couldnt get a mortgage for years & the grief I had trying to prove that it wasn't me. All could have been stopped with photographic I.D. and possible biometric info on it too.

 

I'm not saying they would stop crime, but they would definetly make it harder for criminals & casual criminals & the ever burning issue of illegal immigrants.

 

:/

I've been stopped once my police at 4am in the morning when i was 14 ( I was going fishing)

 

Someone had burnt down a barn nearby, the police let us go no problem, what they failed to spot was the pocket full of firelighters and matches i had.

 

No I had not burned down the barn, but I wasn't even searched, identity cards will probably serve to let people get off with things easier, especially the criminals who copy the cards.

 

"show us the card mate"

"o you must be legal, on your way"

I'm all for them. As discussed above however, the fake ID cards are a worry if we're going to rely on them so much. Only way round this is to make them technically difficult to copy (expensive) or enforce strict penalties for carrying and/or producing fake cards...

 

Steve

4) Sounds a bit big brother this one, but they will inevitably lead to the government / large organisations keeping a whole range of information about you on their databases = less privacy.

 

And you think if they wanted to find out that info right now they couldn't?

Gotit: They stole a lot of identity documents to get do these things. If this ID card comes into play they will need less stuff and you really only need your identity card to say who you are. Passports and driving licences are already being copied, having another "Official" Id means there is more money for criminals to sell forged documents.

 

We will lose our right to be anonymous. What difference does it make whether I can prove who I am in the middle of a street? Street muggers are not going to have their card on display when they are kicking some old woman to the floor for her pension. Armed robbers are not going to show people their cards and then as them to lay down on the floor.

 

I don’t carry any id around in my wallet. If it is stolen, then they not only have what money I have or cards, but then have my identity. The only way an Id card will work is if an image is displayed on a screen when the card is swiped through a computer.

 

If not, and the image is changed on the card which wont be hard, the person who stole my card will be Stuart Evans as far as any one who sees it or any one who asks for it, with no questions asked.

 

We already have a unique identity anyway. Its called your national insurance number. From this they can get your address, phone number, name, date of birth, where you work, bank account, to name a few things. And from those pieces of information they can find your medical history via hospital computers, they can look you up on the organ donors record. What else do you need? So for your personal safety a National Insurance card with your number is perfect and there is no need to forge it. You cant use it to get loans, buy cars etc. To me that is a lot safer than having an Id card which when forged ( And they will be forged within weeks of their release, it took 2 weeks for the Euro money to get forged ) can give a criminal a some one else’s identity. From a National Insurance number they can find out information about you, but it cant be used for anything.

For example, there are hundreds of cars on the road with false number plates on and these have been caught by speed cameras. The person who owns the car with the real number gets the fine and some have real trouble proving it wasn’t them. Now imagine people having to prove this person who has official document saying they are you, isn’t.

 

My friend got sent a summons for not paying a parking ticked 300 miles away from where he lives. It took over 3 months to persuade them it wasn’t him and it was only by luck that the car that got the ticket was a different car. What happened if it was the same make of car? How can you prove it wasn’t you?

 

 

One final thing. The Government wants all this information to be stored on 1 computer system so they can get any information about you if they wanted. That means just 1 computer to hack to find out anything you want about anyone, and give and change information if they wanted, and then you prove its wrong! If the CIA, FBI and US Military computers have been hacked, this one will be. It also means if this computer goes down, you will have no Id until its up!

It is also said there is no computer system big enough and fast enough to hold and process that much information for 60,000,000 people. They have a system like that in the US on a voluntary Id card where 50,000 people have signed up, and the people who run that say they don’t think the system could handle millions of entries and thousands of enquiries a second.

I.D. Cards

 

Misplace of Trust??

 

Why should people have them if they arent doing anything wrong?

 

People who are'nt law abiding would probally flush it down the bog and tell the cops that its in their other jeans, and then say 'oh fook it, what are they gonna do, give me 20mins community service?'

 

If you cant stop crime then how you going to force criminals to carry I.D. Cards?

 

People who break the law ovbiously dont give a :smw: and as usual the people who buy the cards, a percentage will probally be Subsidising some imigrants rent!

 

I'll go with the majority. I suppose I'd carry one if it got me out of keep going to Kop Shop with producers :rofl:

I welcome the idea with open arms.........

 

I was stopped by the police the other day, no reason but I was.......they asked me who I was etc.......he went off to patrol car came back and said, okay everything is in order and you are who you say you are, thanks for your co-operation...

 

I asked what was in order? He said, your clean license, insurance, mot and tax are all valid and in date......no producer! :D

 

If I can carry a card with my picture on it that explains all about me, i.e. age, blood group, allergies, wether I am allowed to be in this coutry, address, next of kin, donor details, birthday, etc, etc, etc, etc.........as far as I am concerned they can put my whole life stroy on there....

 

I think it should be done ASAP.........maybe we wouldn't have so many people in the coutry that have 'sneaked' in........and people could be 'stung' in the right way if they have done something wrong as they would have no place to hide, i.e. giving false details!!

 

Infact..............CHIP US ALL...........LMAO........(maybe I'd quicker if I'd been chipped!!) :D

 

Matty.

Did you not say to them"I AM HAMMERITE MAN,BE GONE" :hyper: :hyper: :hyper:

The reality is that people can already track you going round the country on CCTV, Cell Phone data and even your time and location when you use credit / debit cards.

 

I doubt a national ID card won't add more to this, as for identity theft, it's easy to do now and will remain so in the future.

Unless you dont have a mobile phone or have several and rotate them at random your every movement is already logged. They know roughly where you are every 15 minutes when your mobile sends its "here I am signal". I am all for any means to discriminate between the "us" who do contribute to society and pay our taxes and the "them" who dont. If its the price we have to pay. Defo dont want any kind of tracker in my car thats linked to this tho.

 

Just realised I did a quick 300 mile round trip yesterday. If the phone records were checked they could probably figure out my average speed through several cells. Heck not so sure now - might be a "them" on this one!

I have a deep anti-authoritarian streak so I'm naturally predisposed to dislike ID cards. At least with a mobile or a credit card you can choose when to be anonymous.

 

I'm also a libertarian hippie who thinks that the government cannot give you rights, they can only take them away. I see ID cards as a further erosion of my right to privacy.

 

Still, I'm cursed with a pragmatic, defeatist streak which leaves me thinking "Ah well, we're almost completely rolled over already. Why not just sit back, watch "I'm a Celebrity, Help Me Sell my Property", and let the state do whatever they like".

 

I found this on the web - a nice description of the difference between secrecy and privacy:

 

http://www.tanous.co.uk/blog/stories/2004/03/28/privacyVSecrecy.html

 

Russ.

Terrorism is a thinly disguised excuse for their identity card policy.

What good will it do to enforce these on decent people when you are allowing thosands of people from backward cultures who make no attempt to hide their hatred for us into the country.

Although I do not disagree with the ideology behind I.D. cards I do have very little faith in how this country/government would implement it & what it would be used for...

 

As it stands their record is that Joe Ordinary will be made to suffer, while the people who deserve the punishment walk away laughing & will probably claim compensation for loss of earning due to not being able to break into houses or something

 

:rolleyes:

I think we should have them.

The technology exists to make them near impossible to forge.

How easy is it to forge money? Pretty hard!

Those new credit carrds with chips are tricky to crack too.

 

I think they'd help and I have nothing to hide (I do shut my curtains as while I don't mind admitting to 'shivering one out' now and then, I don't think people want to see it. And it keeps the house warmer).

 

The plusses would outweigh the minuses.

One final thing. The Government wants all this information to be stored on 1 computer system so they can get any information about you if they wanted. That means just 1 computer to hack to find out anything you want about anyone, and give and change information if they wanted, and then you prove its wrong! If the CIA, FBI and US Military computers have been hacked, this one will be. It also means if this computer goes down, you will have no Id until its up!

It is also said there is no computer system big enough and fast enough to hold and process that much information for 60,000,000 people. They have a system like that in the US on a voluntary Id card where 50,000 people have signed up, and the people who run that say they don?t think the system could handle millions of entries and thousands of enquiries a second.

 

Na - it could be done. The credit reference agencies aren't far off this now, after all, and some US credit card agencies are considerably larger than a mere 60 million. You're only looking at 10% churn a year too (except in Scotland where deleting emigrees will be the main problem. :rofl: ) Next time junk mail for a credit card arrives, with all your details already filled in, ask yourself how many other customers are on that database, worldwide. The pilot in the States probably won't scale to 60m because they haven't designed it that way - not because it's not possible.

 

System availability shouldn't be a problem either - when was the last time you had trouble using your credit card because the merchant network was down? I don't think it's ever happened to me, and I see five-nines achieved in most customers responsible for those kinds of services.

 

Whether it's realistic to deliver something like this into the public sector is another matter... and the bill to the taxpayer will be not inconsiderably substantial. Hardly fits with reducing costs in Whitehall, does it?

 

Straw and Blunkett, are you listening? :slap: