300zx club second referendum on Brexit. Are you in or out?

You could be right and I could be wrong but my vote is cast and I have had enough of what the European Commission is doing now with their hands round our neck to squeeze every drop of life out of us. No I'm sorry they should respect the will of the British people and find an exist that is real to both sides.

 

This...….

 

I originally voted leave - and probably would again. But my opinion is not the issue - the issue is, that the country voted leave the first time around. Albeit by a small majority - but it was the will of the electorate, so that vote should be respected and not held time and time again, until the remoaners get their will.

 

The EU has had its day; it was just too flawed in the first place to work out properly; as each nation has its differences. Whilst I shall still lament the benefits of being in the European Community after we leave, my sole reason for voting "leave" was sovereignty. We vote for our government as a nation - and no matter whether we like it or not, we can still vote them out after 4-5 years. Hence our own government must be free to make its own laws - and not be over-ridden by an unelected body in Brussels. That is not democracy - it's a dictatorship!

 

If the EU could evolve in such a way - IE operate as a community; yet respect the individual sovereignty of each nation without interference, then I'd happily remain. However the EU is hell bent on running the show and that gravy train should be derailed for the corrupt and morally bankrupt organisation it has sadly become!!

TheRealNips. Just wanted to go to some of the comparisons you made.

The reason you don’t see so much traffic on the French roads is the population density is FAR lower than here, over 3xs lower. The rural parts are virtually unpopulated. If you go to the large French cities though such as Paris or Lyon not only are roads an absolute nightmare the standard of driving is a worse. I hate driving in London but I’d take it over Lyon any day.

Whilst Germany, Australia and The Netherlands are impressively clean, particularly Austria, nations such as France, Spain and Italy are right mucky places filled with stray cats and graffiti. Obviously parts of these countries are nice as are parts here. I certainly don’t feel we’re at the bottom of the pile, Britain is over all a great place. There’s not a country in the world that’s perfect and I’m always happy to home. Maybe you shouldn’t be so keen to put home down.

The biggest problem conceptually (a moot point to some extent for us) is that it assumes parity, on economically, standardisation and moral issues. The current 28 member states do not have this. This is a foundational flaw, and is and has, caused a lot of hardship and upheaval throughout the EU long before “Brexit”.

We all got a chance to cast a vote. The same information was available for all who sought it out to make decisions, it was down to the individual to make that choice as best they could or abstain if they chose. That is democracy, a voice for all citizens equally, I strongly believe in that and that either way we must except the decision of the majority and those who we employ to carry out our wishes must do so to the best of thier ability.

 

Yup - my thoughts too....:cool:

TheRealNips. Just wanted to go to some of the comparisons you made.

The reason you don’t see so much traffic on the French roads is the population density is FAR lower than here, over 3xs lower. The rural parts are virtually unpopulated. If you go to the large French cities though such as Paris or Lyon not only are roads an absolute nightmare the standard of driving is a worse. I hate driving in London but I’d take it over Lyon any day.

Whilst Germany, Australia and The Netherlands are impressively clean, particularly Austria, nations such as France, Spain and Italy are right mucky places filled with stray cats and graffiti. Obviously parts of these countries are nice as are parts here. I certainly don’t feel we’re at the bottom of the pile, Britain is over all a great place. There’s not a country in the world that’s perfect and I’m always happy to home. Maybe you shouldn’t be so keen to put home down.

 

I'm not keen to put my home down, I am proud to be British, I am proud to live here and want only the best for me, my children(to-be), my wife(who is 2/3 of the 7 year process to becoming British) and my country. However, I feel that after having the rare chance of living abroad for 10 years in a communist dictatorship, when people say "the EU is a dictatorship", its really not. A dictatorship is one party rule, its when internet is monitored and you get the police knocking on your door at 2am because you were googling the Fulonggong, its banning foreigners from buying property or cars, its disappearing your own populace because they wrote any combination of the numbers 4.6.89, its killing people who stand up to your regime.

 

Britain is a nice place, its lovely to drive around and we are blessed to have areas that look like so many other parts of the world, all squashed into this island. Sure there are bad parts, there are good parts. What I am trying to get at is the culture of this country, the social element, the human material of this country has been destroyed. The masses have become idiot-tised (not a word i know!) to only care about themselves, only think about how people view them on social media, to sharing memes with ridiculous selfish one liners (maybe two if the attention span is there). Kids are having social problems, failing to make face to face communication and even committing suicide due to bullying because of how things are perceived online. News doesn't come from well informed news outlets any more, its comes from AI news feeds that are designed to delete threads they see you don't read and only include news you click on to the point where news is so narrowed and bias people cant make educated decisions anymore, take the referendum for one. Try it on your android news feed, click a news feed you would never ever read normally (I choose a Rachel Riley article, within a Strictly Come Dancing thread) and you will see it learns you are interested in that and before you know it, your news thread is full of related stories. We are blinkered into reading these targeted feeds until we have nothing to compare news to and it seems the majority cant/wont be bothered to research topics themselves. We become very black or white and end up trolling anyone on the internet that doesn't fit into our small, close minded box.

 

We have become a nation addicted to alcohol and cant seem to do anything fun with out it. Look at our streets early on a Sunday morning. People ask where our tax money goes, it goes on rebuilding bus shelters, sweeping up litter, clearing up glass and repairing people in hospitals. I didn't see trouble when I lived abroad related to alcohol, it was only a certain nationality of expat who fought when drunk. How many times have aeroplanes been caught by "Brits on Holiday". Further more look at driving, I drive buses for a living, I do about 30K miles a year which is quite a bit, i'm on the road for 7-10 hours per day and the abuse I receive is amazing, the abuse I see between other road users is amazing. We are a nation of middle fingers, w**ker signs, tail gaters and inconsiderate, downright dangerous driving. All because we have to get 1 more car in front? We have no respect for anyone anymore, we dont treat anyone the way we wish to be treated anymore. I hate it when people say "I tell it like it is", NO, you are being loud mouthed and rude, furthermore, if someone said that to you, you would hit them. People are too quick to give it out, but when it comes to receiving it...

 

Going back to your point, I'm not keen to put my country down, I love my country, I love our proud history, but that is the key word; History. We are not a proud country anymore, we, the brits have ruined ourselves, our international image, our credibility socially and politically. It has to change, the social material of this country has to improve, the educational level has to improve, the "free-time-im-going-to-read-about-a-subject-to-get-an-unbias-view" level has to improve otherwise we are going to implode and Britain will be even closer to Black Mirror - Nose Dive (S3E1) episode (check it out, its a good watch!)

 

All my views here are not targeted at anyone, its my feelings on what seems the majority, I'm sure there are many people like us here that are caring, respectful and want things to improve, its just difficult to not become cynical when you get spat at and threaten with a knife for saying "can I see your ticket please" :lol:

I'm not keen to put my home down, I am proud to be British, I am proud to live here and want only the best for me, my children(to-be), my wife(who is 2/3 of the 7 year process to becoming British) and my country. However, I feel that after having the rare chance of living abroad for 10 years in a communist dictatorship, when people say "the EU is a dictatorship", its really not. A dictatorship is one party rule, its when internet is monitored and you get the police knocking on your door at 2am because you were googling the Fulonggong, its banning foreigners from buying property or cars, its disappearing your own populace because they wrote any combination of the numbers 4.6.89, its killing people who stand up to your regime.

 

Britain is a nice place, its lovely to drive around and we are blessed to have areas that look like so many other parts of the world, all squashed into this island. Sure there are bad parts, there are good parts. What I am trying to get at is the culture of this country, the social element, the human material of this country has been destroyed. The masses have become idiot-tised (not a word i know!) to only care about themselves, only think about how people view them on social media, to sharing memes with ridiculous selfish one liners (maybe two if the attention span is there). Kids are having social problems, failing to make face to face communication and even committing suicide due to bullying because of how things are perceived online. News doesn't come from well informed news outlets any more, its comes from AI news feeds that are designed to delete threads they see you don't read and only include news you click on to the point where news is so narrowed and bias people cant make educated decisions anymore, take the referendum for one. Try it on your android news feed, click a news feed you would never ever read normally (I choose a Rachel Riley article, within a Strictly Come Dancing thread) and you will see it learns you are interested in that and before you know it, your news thread is full of related stories. We are blinkered into reading these targeted feeds until we have nothing to compare news to and it seems the majority cant/wont be bothered to research topics themselves. We become very black or white and end up trolling anyone on the internet that doesn't fit into our small, close minded box.

 

We have become a nation addicted to alcohol and cant seem to do anything fun with out it. Look at our streets early on a Sunday morning. People ask where our tax money goes, it goes on rebuilding bus shelters, sweeping up litter, clearing up glass and repairing people in hospitals. I didn't see trouble when I lived abroad related to alcohol, it was only a certain nationality of expat who fought when drunk. How many times have aeroplanes been caught by "Brits on Holiday". Further more look at driving, I drive buses for a living, I do about 30K miles a year which is quite a bit, i'm on the road for 7-10 hours per day and the abuse I receive is amazing, the abuse I see between other road users is amazing. We are a nation of middle fingers, w**ker signs, tail gaters and inconsiderate, downright dangerous driving. All because we have to get 1 more car in front? We have no respect for anyone anymore, we dont treat anyone the way we wish to be treated anymore. I hate it when people say "I tell it like it is", NO, you are being loud mouthed and rude, furthermore, if someone said that to you, you would hit them. People are too quick to give it out, but when it comes to receiving it...

 

Going back to your point, I'm not keen to put my country down, I love my country, I love our proud history, but that is the key word; History. We are not a proud country anymore, we, the brits have ruined ourselves, our international image, our credibility socially and politically. It has to change, the social material of this country has to improve, the educational level has to improve, the "free-time-im-going-to-read-about-a-subject-to-get-an-unbias-view" level has to improve otherwise we are going to implode and Britain will be even closer to Black Mirror - Nose Dive (S3E1) episode (check it out, its a good watch!)

 

All my views here are not targeted at anyone, its my feelings on what seems the majority, I'm sure there are many people like us here that are caring, respectful and want things to improve, its just difficult to not become cynical when you get spat at and threaten with a knife for saying "can I see your ticket please" :lol:

 

Thats a big read Tom but it just shows the emotion in this poll and what a big decision it is for this country.

After all that has been said it doesnt alter the fact that the Governance of the EU is undemocratic.

 

Tusk, Barnier et al have not been elected by the people. They are political appointments wielding absolute power. The EU parliament dare not disagree with them because that would undermine the whole status quo

 

So we are negotiating our exit after a democratic vote with people who have not been elected - Smacks purely of slf interest. Perpetuate more of the same

 

Thats why I want out

I'm not keen to put my home down, I am proud to be British, I am proud to live here and want only the best for me, my children(to-be), my wife(who is 2/3 of the 7 year process to becoming British) and my country. However, I feel that after having the rare chance of living abroad for 10 years in a communist dictatorship, when people say "the EU is a dictatorship", its really not. A dictatorship is one party rule, its when internet is monitored and you get the police knocking on your door at 2am because you were googling the Fulonggong, its banning foreigners from buying property or cars, its disappearing your own populace because they wrote any combination of the numbers 4.6.89, its killing people who stand up to your regime.

 

Britain is a nice place, its lovely to drive around and we are blessed to have areas that look like so many other parts of the world, all squashed into this island. Sure there are bad parts, there are good parts. What I am trying to get at is the culture of this country, the social element, the human material of this country has been destroyed. The masses have become idiot-tised (not a word i know!) to only care about themselves, only think about how people view them on social media, to sharing memes with ridiculous selfish one liners (maybe two if the attention span is there). Kids are having social problems, failing to make face to face communication and even committing suicide due to bullying because of how things are perceived online. News doesn't come from well informed news outlets any more, its comes from AI news feeds that are designed to delete threads they see you don't read and only include news you click on to the point where news is so narrowed and bias people cant make educated decisions anymore, take the referendum for one. Try it on your android news feed, click a news feed you would never ever read normally (I choose a Rachel Riley article, within a Strictly Come Dancing thread) and you will see it learns you are interested in that and before you know it, your news thread is full of related stories. We are blinkered into reading these targeted feeds until we have nothing to compare news to and it seems the majority cant/wont be bothered to research topics themselves. We become very black or white and end up trolling anyone on the internet that doesn't fit into our small, close minded box.

 

We have become a nation addicted to alcohol and cant seem to do anything fun with out it. Look at our streets early on a Sunday morning. People ask where our tax money goes, it goes on rebuilding bus shelters, sweeping up litter, clearing up glass and repairing people in hospitals. I didn't see trouble when I lived abroad related to alcohol, it was only a certain nationality of expat who fought when drunk. How many times have aeroplanes been caught by "Brits on Holiday". Further more look at driving, I drive buses for a living, I do about 30K miles a year which is quite a bit, i'm on the road for 7-10 hours per day and the abuse I receive is amazing, the abuse I see between other road users is amazing. We are a nation of middle fingers, w**ker signs, tail gaters and inconsiderate, downright dangerous driving. All because we have to get 1 more car in front? We have no respect for anyone anymore, we dont treat anyone the way we wish to be treated anymore. I hate it when people say "I tell it like it is", NO, you are being loud mouthed and rude, furthermore, if someone said that to you, you would hit them. People are too quick to give it out, but when it comes to receiving it...

 

Going back to your point, I'm not keen to put my country down, I love my country, I love our proud history, but that is the key word; History. We are not a proud country anymore, we, the brits have ruined ourselves, our international image, our credibility socially and politically. It has to change, the social material of this country has to improve, the educational level has to improve, the "free-time-im-going-to-read-about-a-subject-to-get-an-unbias-view" level has to improve otherwise we are going to implode and Britain will be even closer to Black Mirror - Nose Dive (S3E1) episode (check it out, its a good watch!)

 

All my views here are not targeted at anyone, its my feelings on what seems the majority, I'm sure there are many people like us here that are caring, respectful and want things to improve, its just difficult to not become cynical when you get spat at and threaten with a knife for saying "can I see your ticket please" :lol:

 

Maybe it’s time to have a think about some things for you, this is not my experience of daily life in this country. I see it yes but it’s the exception not the norm. I do even more miles than you do, 50k+, and don’t encounter that much rage. Aren’t you a Bus driver? Maybe it’s time for a holiday? :lol:

Maybe it’s time to have a think about some things for you, this is not my experience of daily life in this country. I see it yes but it’s the exception not the norm. I do even more miles than you do, 50k+, and don’t encounter that much rage. Aren’t you a Bus driver? Maybe it’s time for a holiday? :lol:

 

:lol: I completely agree with you! I am currently on holiday (hence the reason I am clogging up the forum with diatribes!) for 20 days and I am waiting for confirmation of a career change, Hopefully leaving the bus industry and dealing with the public all together! :biggrin:

:lol: I completely agree with you! I am currently on holiday (hence the reason I am clogging up the forum with diatribes!) for 20 days and I am waiting for confirmation of a career change, Hopefully leaving the bus industry and dealing with the public all together! :biggrin:

 

I rest my case... :lol: the trouble is with any public service job like that, be it bus driver, police, paramedic, job centre, child services etc etc is you get a very skewed view of the population. Now get off the bloody internet and be in the moment on your well deserved holiday! Which reminds me, I’m off next week, didgital detox commencing in 5,4,3,2..... laters. :clap:

Taken from a site I subscribe to ......

 

'But even on Brexit, the EU’s awesome powers are causing problems. The law provides for an exit of the EU. The EU’s politics do not seem to. I don’t think the British voter will be particularly comfortable with this gap. Leaders who think they are above the law don’t last.'

 

Interesting comment

See the BBC EU referendum:The result in maps and charts.

Leave 51.9% Remain 48.1%

Turnout 72.2%

Turnout in areas with a higher proportion of younger residents tended to be lower.

Age, educational attainment & national identity were also key factors in how the UK voted.

In 30 areas with most elderly 27/30 voted leave.

Fewest graduates 28/30 voted leave.

Most people identifying as English 30/30 voted to leave.

The Common Market was formed in 1957 & the UK joining in 1975

Scotland was one of the areas that voted most strongly against the Common Market, a total reversal compared with 2016!

Gibraltar voted remain with nearly 96% also remain dominated in London, Scotland & Northern Ireland.

Just for information to all.

Apologies if you already know these facts.

i voted out out, europe needs massive reform to work properly, and it wont reform u cant get them all to agree with each other.

Not a dig, but have seen a good few of these polls on line lately all with similar outcome. What I also see is strong comments from leavers making there argument for their vote to leave. Now ask the same question in a room full of people, oddly the leavers become very quiet, that keyboard gives a level of anonymity not available in person.... just saying, not having a go.

I wonder what the "remain" politicians would make of our democratic poll of 25% remain to 75% leave?

The ballot box does exactly that which is a good thing. We all have the right to our own views.

I'm just going to wait and see what happens with the Italian budget - I have vested interest in that !

 

In the words of who I can't remmeber.... prepare for the worst, but hope for the best

 

Well as I understand it be it Deputy Prime Ministers Matteo Salvini and Luigi Di Maio pushing for an increase in the budget deficit in order to fund social welfare projects and tax cuts which considering they are only second to Greece in the " up the river without a paddle" situation and in contravention of EU the funding agreements they signed up to, could be seen as reckless, bloody minded or even brave and forward thinking, who know`s which??

 

But equally they must still balance the books as it were, a case could be argued that you need to "acumulate to speculate" but I kind of think it will be more a case of "you reap what you sow" with both Italy and Greece...

 

..the future is not bright for either of them, actually I think poverty is overstated these days in the western world, when you see youngster`s protesting on the streets, masked up, wearing designer jeans and doing selfies on the latest I phone, it sort of counters their point eh?

 

Jeff

Edited September 25, 20187 yr by JeffTT

Well if they don't do that for which they were elected for they'll out of office.

 

If they crash out of the euro because of it and reinstate the Lira, that can set what value they like for the euro and they have adjusted it before by devaluing it........

Well if they don't do that for which they were elected for they'll out of office.

 

If they crash out of the euro because of it and reinstate the Lira, that can set what value they like for the euro and they have adjusted it before by devaluing it........

 

Oh my gosh that will be a disaster of epic proportion for them, be run away inflation and large scale money printing to keep ahead of the devalued currency, be like the old days in Germany and needing a wheel barrow to carry the money to buy a loaf of bread....and.... the wheel barrow gets stolen leaving the money behind ..

:no:

 

Edited September 26, 20187 yr by JeffTT

....and.... the wheel barrow gets stolen leaving the money behind ..

:no:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]114525[/ATTACH]

 

:lol:

Poll closes tomorrow guys so get your vote in if you haven't already.

Poll now closed and we have just over double of the voting members wanting to get out of the European Community. I will send this vital information to the PM's office for inspiration to get on with the job of the UK leaving the sinking ship. :wink: Please keep discussing this important thread of our future life of going it alone without the community of Europe dragging us down.

 

Is it Dexit for Germany????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/684282/Germany-Eu-referendum-Dexit-Brexit-Angela-Merkel-european-union

Can we have another vote please, did not like the outcome of that one :laugh:

 

Jeff

Can we have another vote please, did not like the outcome of that one [emoji23]

 

Jeff

And in true European Fashion rephrase the question so you get the answer you want !

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Edited September 29, 20187 yr by TonyB

PM on shaky ground after two minister's resign (so far) including Dominic Raab. Theresa May's Brexit deal terms is not going to work so are we looking at a new PM and who will it be.

 

Why can they not all unite against the EU with a good deal for the UK and make the EU sweat. Or are all politicians in it for their own self interests. :shifty:

Or are all politicians in it for their own self interests. :shifty:

 

I assume this is a rhetorical question? If not I think we could start a new post but I’d put good money on it being locked by the time I sit down for dinner.