Following on from a previous thread about the red Z that failed at auction and the comments about classic cars.....

 

I went to a classic car auction just very recently and was genuinely shocked to see that MOST of the entries were what used to be called Tetleys (Tetley Bitters) !

 

Much rust on display and a lot of them hadn't even been hoovered !

 

Very few were what you would consider immaculate/restored. They mostly seemed just tired older cars.

 

The most surprising entry of the day was a 2004 BMW 640 Convertible.....not immediately considered a classic imo. It's appeal ? It used to belong to Tara Palmer-Thomkinson !

 

It was an interesting day out but it did make me feel that the whole classic car thing has gone a bit mad !

Mad is right word for most of the classic car sales but I believe the z32 300zx is still under rated.

Mad is right word for most of the classic car sales but I believe the z32 300zx is still under rated.

 

Ditto....:wink:

 

I do tend to agree with Marky though; a lot of what are being passed off as "classics" are indeed just older cars, which are past their prime, yet too young and plentiful to be classed as a classic right now. Granted, the first generation XK8 will certainly be a proper modern classic, once there are fewer on the road. But right now, nice cars though they are, they are just another old Jag. Especially whilst the current model has only just left production.

 

Same with turn-of-the-millennium Mercs. Again the early 90s and older Mercs are becoming more sought after, there's no doubt, but 1st and 2nd gen. CLKs...? AMG models aside, jut not yet - they too are just another old car!!

 

Give it another 10 years, maybe... Although when new, these cars tended to be oversupplied; so whilst they remain plentiful, their classic status is still not assured.

 

Bandwagon, indeed....:wink:

Given I have been advocating a predicted drop off in values of many real classics let alone the jonny come lately one`s even I was surprised by the following article as to why this is happening, seems 2017 has seen a firm 10 % drop on historic classics due to the fact there is a shortage of old school mechanics ! ... well who would of thought it eh?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4939210/Value-classic-cars-hits-skids.html

 

 

Jeff

Given I have been advocating a predicted drop off in values of many real classics let alone the jonny come lately one`s even I was surprised by the following article as to why this is happening, seems 2017 has seen a firm 10 % drop on historic classics due to the fact there is a shortage of old school mechanics ! ... well who would of thought it eh?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4939210/Value-classic-cars-hits-skids.html

 

 

Jeff

 

 

 

Then there is this...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/880535/Classic-Ford-Escort-1980-Mark-II-Escort-RS2000-Custom-sold-auction

Then there is this...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/880535/Classic-Ford-Escort-1980-Mark-II-Escort-RS2000-Custom-sold-auction

 

Ah yes but come on "A CLASSIC Ford Escort car that has covered just 927 miles in its 37-year history"

 

 

These are time capsule gems, that are far,far removed from the latest craze for selling buckets of rust with a vin plate

 

 

 

Jeff

Ah yes but come on "A CLASSIC Ford Escort car that has covered just 927 miles in its 37-year history"

 

 

These are time capsule gems, that are far,far removed from the latest craze for selling buckets of rust with a vin plate

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]109538[/ATTACH]

 

 

Jeff

 

Have to agree with you there Jeff :yes:

$91k for a 96TT. Last of a run of 300 numbered cars (JN1CZ24D7TX960300) for US market. 528 miles on the clock.

On its way to Dubai apparently.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Nissan-300ZX-Turbo-Coupe-2-Door-/142495159870?hash=item212d5f963e%3Ag%3AKckAAOSwfaZZqtLp&vxp=mtr&nma=true&si=n0iUkQv8fs%252F6LNhbeY1pvJIZ3mA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Then there is this...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/880535/Classic-Ford-Escort-1980-Mark-II-Escort-RS2000-Custom-sold-auction

 

Ah yes but come on "A CLASSIC Ford Escort car that has covered just 927 miles in its 37-year history"

 

 

These are time capsule gems, that are far,far removed from the latest craze for selling buckets of rust with a vin plate

 

Jeff

 

Yup - I saw this at the NEC last weekend!

 

The guys on the Silverstone Auctions stand let me in for a (ahem) free preview at 8am Sunday morning - well before the show's public opening.

.....And I rather liked this....

 

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1993-porsche-928-s4

 

Lovely example...:thumbup:

.....And I rather liked this....

 

http://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1993-porsche-928-s4

 

Lovely example...:thumbup:

 

You need one in your life Richard :yes: just £32.000

That red Z that didn't sell at auction at £9,800 didn't sell again on the 12th. I don't know what it got up to but it seems to suggest that there's definitely a ceiling in place for the Z32 at the moment.

That red Z that didn't sell at auction at £9,800 didn't sell again on the 12th. I don't know what it got up to but it seems to suggest that there's definitely a ceiling in place for the Z32 at the moment.

 

I think that an auction is the wrong place to sell a 300zx if you want top end money for it.

Agreed !!

Regardless of what said the classic/collectible car market a large portion of it is about tax. There’s a lot of people investing in high end Porsche’s and the like, many of them have little interest in the cars.

Regardless of what said the classic/collectible car market a large portion of it is about tax. There’s a lot of people investing in high end Porsche’s and the like, many of them have little interest in the cars.

 

Yup - classic cars are a tax-free investment!

 

Because a car - even a classic car - is deemed a "wasting asset" by HMRC, you can make a large profit on selling a classic car, yet it is outside the scope of capital gains and income tax!

Yup - classic cars are a tax-free investment!

 

Because a car - even a classic car - is deemed a "wasting asset" by HMRC, you can make a large profit on selling a classic car, yet it is outside the scope of capital gains and income tax!

 

Not sure that is fully correct Richard, maybe a single sale or even an odd one here and there but soon enough HMRC will see you as a trader if your buying to sell at profit, they even raid car boot sales for traders who appear to be selling house hold items but are really regular traders, selling cars comes under the same umbrella and selling from home is not an easy way out.

 

Low cost cars will stay under the radar, but start selling £50k + super classics and the money will be subject to money laundering anyway well anything over £10k is now, do a couple of those and your own bank will snitch on you... its the law, we had to when any customers paid us over £10k.

 

Jeff

Not sure that is fully correct Richard, maybe a single sale or even an odd one here and there but soon enough HMRC will see you as a trader if your buying to sell at profit, they even raid car boot sales for traders who appear to be selling house hold items but are really regular traders, selling cars comes under the same umbrella and selling from home is not an easy way out.

 

Low cost cars will stay under the radar, but start selling £50k + super classics and the money will be subject to money laundering anyway well anything over £10k is now, do a couple of those and your own bank will snitch on you... its the law, we had to when any customers paid us over £10k.

 

Jeff

 

Investing and trading are two different things, of course....

 

Granted, if a person regularly buys and sells cars, then yes; that becomes a business and income earned is liable to tax.

 

I was referring specifically the investment side - apologies for the slight ambiguity.... If an individual buys (say) an E-type for maybe £50k [purely] as an investment and sells it 2 or 3 years later for £100k. The £50k profit is tax free; as said, a car is a wasting asset, therefore the gain does not count for CGT.

 

Trust me, I'm an accountant....:wink:

Investing and trading are two different things, of course....

 

Granted, if a person regularly buys and sells cars, then yes; that becomes a business and income earned is liable to tax.

 

I was referring specifically the investment side - apologies for the slight ambiguity.... If an individual buys (say) an E-type for maybe £50k [purely] as an investment and sells it 2 or 3 years later for £100k. The £50k profit is tax free; as said, a car is a wasting asset, therefore the gain does not count for CGT.

 

Trust me, I'm an accountant....:wink:

 

.....And adding to this, it is extremely unlikely that HMRC will change their mind either - as it would be misguided. If HMRC did change the law, bringing classic cars (and similar wasting assets, like antique clocks, watches, fine wines and boats etc.) into the realms of capital gains tax, then they would also be forced to permit allowances for losses by the same virtue! And since there is no hard and fast rule, as to what constitutes a classic car compared to any old car; think of the potential claims that people could submit for selling their Mondeo at a loss.....:lol:

...Oh, and I forgot to mention, like any asset or investment, a classic car would still attract inheritance tax; if it forms part of an estate following death of the owner!

You can loose/liberate a fair few quid in a once in a while transaction if your chosen car is worth in excess of a million...

You can loose/liberate a fair few quid in a once in a while transaction if your chosen car is worth in excess of a million...

 

Indeed! I mean, if you invested in an old Merc 300SL Gullwing, many years ago - and sold it on for a cool million at auction at the NEC last month - that's a nice tax-free profit... As long as you don't do it every year, that is. It's not the sum of money involved, it's the notion of the transaction...:wink: