Thats it we are free from the EU. Onwards and upwards or what do you think.

 

i feel sorry for the scots tbh the SNP are desperate to get back in europe

Ultimately it's probably nothing more than a temporary economic downturn, and likely an exaggerated one at that. Sounds better to me than diminishing sovereignty and gradual descent into the fourth Reich!

i feel sorry for the scots tbh the SNP are desperate to get back in europe

 

But not all Scots support this mate.

Technically there's nothing legally concrete that stops them pulling a U Turn, this has been said by the EU today. So it's not as concrete as some would say.

Sadly the SNP, particularly Sturgoen have one adgenda and will use anything to push it and to hell with the rest of us. Brexit is a convienient tool to them currently and tbh they have May over a barrel with it. Thankfully for them it distracts from their actual performance as a government, that's a separate issue though I spose.

I still can't believe this is actually happening, it's a sorry and sad state of affairs, we're regressing and going 'backwards' with isolation rather than progressing and working as a team. The scaremongering from the tabloid media (from both sides) - don't get me started on our hateful tabloid press - and the personalities involved with campaigning (again from both sides) ultimately led to the decisions many folks made rather than real hard facts which is completely wrong.

 

I don't believe that something like this really should have been left to the British public to vote for, the British public who do not and will not know all the ramifications and all the details (myself included). As an example, the British public searched in their droves online for the definition and meaning of the EU AFTER the vote had been cast. That's ludicrous - too late!

 

The EU was an insurance policy and a very good one at that. We now have no one else to rely on if the shit hits the fan.

 

I'm very much an 'internationalist' and do like the fact that the UK is a very cosmopolitan country with many nationalities and faiths living here. It adds to the spice of living in a modern 1st world society and I find that a privilege and I dearly love Europe. The comments from Brexiteers 'we want our country back' are quite a narrow minded approach. We never lost our country and we certainly won't be getting much back from leaving. The number of foreign nationals in this country is small in comparison to the overall population and those claiming benefits are an absolute fraction compared to the amount of layabout Brits blenging off the system and let's face it, the main argument and source of discourse was 'immigration'.

 

People will still come and live in the UK, the amount of illegal immigrants will increase.

 

I strangely now feel less patriotic since the vote to leave took place.

 

The only bonus I see is that we will now see the end of UKIP and hopefully with it, Nigel Farage....since he's now crawled up Donald Trump's arse! :rofl:

Edited March 29, 20178 yr by Funkysi

Technically there's nothing legally concrete that stops them pulling a U Turn, this has been said by the EU today. So it's not as concrete as some would say.

Sadly the SNP, particularly Sturgoen have one adgenda and will use anything to push it and to hell with the rest of us. Brexit is a convienient tool to them currently and tbh they have May over a barrel with it. Thankfully for them it distracts from their actual performance as a government, that's a separate issue though I spose.

 

I'm up in Scotland at the moment and the folks I've spoken to want devolution even less now. If they vote 'out' of the UK, they'll be right at the bottom of the queue to get back into the EU, behind countries like Turkey, Bosnia and Iceland and this is partly what Sturgeon is fighting for.

 

Sturgeon might get her referendum, but the Scots do not want to be completely isolated in the main.

Feel sorry for you guys in the UK who have been misled and lied to, this disaster in the making is a time of uncertainty and foreboding. With little in the ranking kitty of late the UK reputation is already in ruins, quite why any politician thinks this is a way forward just amuses me with their recklessness. Given the world is an ever increasingly dangerous and volatile place been part of Europe bestowed the UK with amour to take on the world basically. Now we have an armed forces that is in crisis and of a size that a small South American state would be embarrassed by.

 

Woe betide any other country thinking we will be a good trading partners, the UK will drag them down with high prices, lack lustre performance and quality.

 

I hate to think my country of birth is in such a mess but it is, socially it's inept and broken, financially it's pants ( except London ) and with the mass of lazy arse benefits cheats it's set to doom, now your thinking I know why Jeff moved to Portugal !!

Edited March 29, 20178 yr by JeffTT

I think we will be fine. Plus other countries will leave the EU and trade deals will be set up. British politicians are sly and conniving but very smart. Just worried about our armed forces as they are in decline and moral is low so lets hope if we need help our "special friendship" with the US bails us out.

Also worried about Spain taking back the "Rock" (Gibraltar) in any negotiation's.

Roll your sleeves up and make it a success or sit about moaning, those are the only choices now.

I did a lot of reading and a lot of thinking before I cast my vote, I tried to convince myself to go against my gut but I kept coming back to my original thoughts. The coverage was and still is abysmal from both sides, the impartiality of the BBC, Christ... really? I can categorically state, I'm educated, I'm young and not a rasict. I also wasn't duped by anyone. I voted out because I feel that Britain is economically and socially, in the long run going to be better of as an independent nation state able to decide its own law. The UK and EU are very different to what they were when we joined and current tie to what I believe is a failing Eurozone is not conducive to a successful Britain. We're definitely on untested ground but as they say fortune favours the brave. If you think it's going obbe all roses your deluded but imo this was a band aid that needed ripping off. As we say here "who's afear'd".

Feel sorry for you guys in the UK who have been misled and lied to, this disaster in the making is a time of uncertainty and foreboding. With little in the ranking kitty of late the UK reputation is already in ruins, quite why any politician thinks this is a way forward just amuses me with there recklessness. Given the world is an ever increasingly dangerous and volatile place been part of Europe bestowed the UK with amour to take on the world basically. Now we have an armed forces that is in crisis and of a size that a small South American state would be embarrassed by.

 

Wo betide any other country thinking we will be a good trading partners, the UK will drag them down with high prices, lack lustre performance and quality.

 

I hate to think my country of birth is in such a mess but it is, socially it's inept and broken, financially it's pants ( except London ) and with the mass of lazy arse benefits cheats it's set to doom, now your thinking I know why Jeff moved to Portugal !!

 

But this country served you well jeff for all the years you worked in it and saved the money to sit where you are now in the sun drinking cocktails and being on the forum most of the time......

 

Dont write this country off because you feel your in a better place.

 

Nobody really knows what lies ahead but lets face it times of late havent been good for alot of reasons. OUR choice has been made so lets just get on with it :thumbup1:

 

Health to enjoy. :punk:

I'm up in Scotland at the moment and the folks I've spoken to want devolution even less now. If they vote 'out' of the UK, they'll be right at the bottom of the queue to get back into the EU, behind countries like Turkey, Bosnia and Iceland and this is partly what Sturgeon is fighting for.

 

Sturgeon might get her referendum, but the Scots do not want to be completely isolated in the main.

 

Honesty knowing the Spanish position the Scots as a breakaway state will find joining very difficult, equally the economy there will suffer greatly as the Euro will be inforced as a condition of membership, look at any of the similar sized economies in Europe for that result and ask any EU national what the switch to the EU did to thier cost of living.

Being under EU jurisdiction which trump many of our own laws, especially on human rights, we couldnt even kick out a known terrorist as it infringed his human rights to a family life in this country, aside from all the financial ramifications, one of the main issues for many was taking back control of what was once a great nation and can be again.

Dont be pushed or fooled by the political inbreds and their own opinion of what we should or shouldnt do, they are only out for their own financial gain and the little people will continue to suffer.

 

I want to move to Spain eventually, it makes no difference whether we are in or out of Europe, people have been living abroad for decades long before our unification with Europe. Remember its not Europe itself that we have a problem with but the un elected bureaucrats that want to rule it their way and their way only.

 

Give it a couple of years and many other countries will follow, guaranteed :thumbup1:

Many like Greece rue the day they joined and had to take on the euro as a currency that has always struggled to beat the likes of the pound, we will strive to succeed and undoubtedly will, its Europe that is on its arse.

 

The UK will grow in a worldwide arena with no restriction of trade from European parliament and may it long continue to grow :thumbup1:

 

Im not bothered about immigration as such, there have been many immigrants involved in making the country successful, its the free loaders from the likes of Romania, who brag about free money to send back home :thumbdown:

 

 

And as far as im concerned Jimmy Crankie is a nut job trying to ruin Scotland in the process, she needs kicking out of government forthwith

Edited March 29, 20178 yr by groover

Jimmy crankie :lol:

The problem with the EU is simple

 

The top echelon of Commissioners who make European policy are not elected. They are appointed by countries who each have their own agenda. Then there is the ECHR. A court not run by Judges and legal eagles but by Civilians and Human Rights activists

The problem with the EU is simple

 

The top echelon of Commissioners who make European policy are not elected. They are appointed by countries who each have their own agenda. Then there is the ECHR. A court not run by Judges and legal eagles but by Civilians and Human Rights activists

 

.....That's how it should be. All countries have their own agenda and each one needs to have a representative to put that point across to get what is most suitable for them.

But this country served you well jeff for all the years you worked in it and saved the money to sit where you are now in the sun drinking cocktails and being on the forum most of the time...... Don`t write this country off because you feel your in a better place.

:

 

See as a political novice I have seen so many time in my life how "Politics" will divide friends, colleagues and family, and in direct answer to your comments Chrisbasildon, yes I earned a living running a business in the UK, that business was Vat registered, tax registered, and an employer. The same business supported maybe twenty other businesses and service providers, including the local council via rates and the utility companies as well as been that employer, who in turn generated income tax payments.

 

So to say the UK served me well for years, is at best stretching the point, at worse I would say we were working for the Government not ourselves and should be grateful for the percentage we were allowed to keep. Of course this is how a modern country operates and how it can provide an infrastructure from the steady income stream from small to medium companies, because as we all know the large corporate companies either have head offices in far off countries or just do deals with HMRC to their benefit.

 

Now whilst the status quo continued and my business did as you suggest flourished the country changed bit by bit, slow enough to not notice but large enough to make a difference. Socially the UK has become fractured, a place full of fluffy tree hugger`s and do gooders, health and safety gone completely mad and dare I say an infrastructure buckling under a tsunami of non indigenous groups, who have been corralled straight into the benefits system and the health system without paying a single penny in, now that does grind my gears, given my comments above about my business.

 

Chrisbasildon, I have not given up on the UK, the UK betrayed me and has us all, how did we get here I have no clear answer, do I feel in a better place in Portugal? hell yes !! is it free of its own issues ? of course not ! I still have othere property in the UK and money in the banking system whilst still paying in to the tax system, despite not using any of the reducing facilities... Brexit is the final nail in the coffin for me, I am pulling everything out now, yes the economy will recover, in time, but what about the interim period, people will loose their income and business`s will face closure due to increased costs, all of these are collateral damage of Brexit I fear for the future of the UK but I did not abandoned it, now I do consider my bolt hole in sun to be presently a better bet than the UK, which is a shame, shame on the power`s to be that allowed our great country to become so divided.

 

Jeff

Edited March 30, 20178 yr by JeffTT

See as a political novice I have seen so many time in my life how "Politics" will divide friends, colleagues and family, and in direct answer to your comments Chrisbasildon, yes I earned a living running a business in the UK, that business was Vat registered, tax registered, and an employer. The same business supported maybe twenty other businesses and service providers, including the local council via rates and the utility companies as well as been that employer, who in turn generated income tax payments.

 

So to say the UK served me well for years, is at best stretching the point, at worse I would say we were working for the Government not ourselves and should be grateful for the percentage we were allowed to keep. Of course this is how a modern country operates and how it can provide an infrastructure from the steady income stream from small to medium companies, because as we all know the large corporate companies either have head offices in far off countries or just do deals with HMRC to their benefit.

 

Now whilst the status quo continued and my business did as you suggest flourished the country changed bit by bit, slow enough to not notice but large enough to make a difference. Socially the UK has become fractured, a place full of fluffy tree hugger`s and do gooders, health and safety gone completely mad and dare I say an infrastructure buckling under a tsunami of non indigenous groups, who have been corralled straight into the benefits system and the health system without paying a single penny in, now that does grind my gears, given my comments above about my business.

 

Chrisbasildon, I have not given up on the UK, the UK betrayed me and has us all, how did we get here I have no clear answer, do I feel in a better place in Portugal? hell yes !! is it free of its own issues ? of course not ! I still have othere property in the UK and money in the banking system whilst still paying in to the tax system, despite not using any of the reducing facilities... Brexit is the final nail in the coffin for me, I am pulling everything out now, yes the economy will recover, in time, but what about the interim period, people will loose their income and business`s will face closure due to increased costs, all of these are collateral damage of Brexit I fear for the future of the UK but I did not abandoned it, now I do consider my bolt hole in sun to be presently a better bet than the UK, which is a shame, shame on the power`s to be that allowed our great country to become so divided.

 

Jeff

 

Lots of negatives there jeff which is a shame.

Maybe brexit will be the big kick in the back side this country is in need of, its unfair to complain about the state of the uk and then complain again once changes are being made to hopefully correct it.

 

Lets hope not everyone with wealth within the uk "pulls everything out" to kick back in a country they are not "indigenous" to.......

Forgot to say also your point about health and safety gone mad. This is mostly enforced due to EU Standards is it not?

Forgot to say also your point about health and safety gone mad. This is mostly enforced due to EU Standards is it not?

 

No incorrect, this is the very core of misconception with what the EU is about, I live as you now in another EU country that is fully integrated into it even using the Euro, however you do not see any of the silly day to day do gooders ruling the place, mostly the regulatory situation is decided locally by the Municipality of any given area not Brussels, not the EU, the UK became weak willed in Europe, and took its eye of the ball as it were, if your in and stand up for yourself like other countries do its works, the UK establishment let it self become a victim.

 

You mention my negativity, maybe ?, but given the facts we have and the uncertainty ahead for the UK how can it be any different, talk about the blind leading the blind !! I hate the fact I feel this way, I hate the fact my country is in this situation and I hate the fact my stance viewed as negative and as an absconder from the fight to put the Great back in Britain, but I have done my 40 years of fighting thanks very much.

 

Jeff

.....That's how it should be. All countries have their own agenda and each one needs to have a representative to put that point across to get what is most suitable for them.

 

Not if ther commissioners can overrule the elected members of the european Parliament it's not

 

How many times has the European Parliament overruled the Commissionsers = Never !

i didn't vote either way, and i will not complain about either camp because of that.

to me it was always a 50/50 in terms of pros and cons, so i was willing to accept the outcome either way, as both outcomes would be challenging for the country in different ways.

 

i think this pretty much sums up the complexity of Europe, Eurozone, EU, etc.

 

just from this diagram, you can see how difficult it would be to pick and choose the bits we do and don't want from the "union"

go to the page if you want to learn the actual descriptions of what each group membership means

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Supranational_European_Bodies

Not if ther commissioners can overrule the elected members of the european Parliament it's not

 

How many times has the European Parliament overruled the Commissionsers = Never !

 

Commissioners are unelected in the same way the Prime Minister is unelected. Or if you live in one town, the way the MP of the next town is unelected. Because you didn't vote for them, right? We vote in MPs, they vote for Prime Minister. Member states vote for EU President, help the President choose commissioners and then vote on whether to accept the commissioners. Note the word vote. They then vote on everything the commission wants to pass. Talk of unelected bureaucrats running Europe is greatly exaggerated.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36429482

 

The talk of EU ministers only caring about themselves and forcing the EU to submit to their tyrannical ways, and we can't wait to transfer powers back to UK MPs is naive in the extreme. Boris Johnson has admitted that when he covered the EU for whatever crappy "newspaper" he used to work for, he just lied. He just made up all these stories of crazy health and safety laws, called them unelected bureaucrats all the time etc. He admitted he just made it up and ENJOYED the power it gave him, that people would lap up his ridiculous stories.

 

And then he campaigned against this caricature of the EU he created in a bid to get some power for himself with no interest for what it meant for the country. I'm not saying EU politicians are better than UK politicians at all, I suspect they're all the same. I'm just saying it is foolish to celebrate the transfer of power from one set of politicians to another as I don't see what will change, certainly for the everyday man in the street.

 

This is well worth a read https://www.indy100.com/article/a-journalist-has-shared-a-story-about-boris-johnson-that-completely-undermines-his-authority-on-the-eu--bkoHJPBuVZ particularly:

 

"Everything I wrote from Brussels, I found was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this I suppose rather weird sense of power."

 

 

At the risk of sounding like a pretentious prick, I think it is easy for people like me to not realise what life can be like for other parts of the country. Life has stagnated, they can't get a decent job and then they see people coming from all over that take the jobs. We can spout numbers about immigrants helping the economy at them all we like, about how the EU free trade boosts the economy etc, but they're not seeing that benefit so why should they vote to keep it?

 

I voted in and stand by it completely, but have come to understand why a lot of people voted out. Who cares about economic progress if it's only the 1% that are benefiting from it? Something needs to change, might as well be this.

 

I will say though that I don't like the UK government's posturing of saying they know exactly what the UK population have voted for and they know exactly what we want. It's just crazy talk, we all have no idea what we voted for because none of us understand the EU correctly, and lots of people voted for lots of different reasons. Some people voted out to save the NHS ffs, as if they're related.

 

I just don't see what this "new dawn" is supposed to be. We have this imperialist-era big ego and think we're better than the rest of Europe, that they're dragging us down, that they all need each other because they're weak but we don't need them. I fear we're in for a hard fall, but I hope not. Maybe it won't be so bad, it's been better than was predicted so far so I remain hopeful :thumbup1:

 

That wasn't supposed to end up being that long :oops:

Oh and we're a damn site better off than Portugal though! World happiness report 2017, UK 19th, Portugal 89th

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_ranking

Commissioners are unelected in the same way the Prime Minister is unelected. Or if you live in one town, the way the MP of the next town is unelected. Because you didn't vote for them, right? We vote in MPs, they vote for Prime Minister. Member states vote for EU President, help the President choose commissioners and then vote on whether to accept the commissioners. Note the word vote. They then vote on everything the commission wants to pass. Talk of unelected bureaucrats running Europe is greatly exaggerated.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36429482

 

The talk of EU ministers only caring about themselves and forcing the EU to submit to their tyrannical ways, and we can't wait to transfer powers back to UK MPs is naive in the extreme. Boris Johnson has admitted that when he covered the EU for whatever crappy "newspaper" he used to work for, he just lied. He just made up all these stories of crazy health and safety laws, called them unelected bureaucrats all the time etc. He admitted he just made it up and ENJOYED the power it gave him, that people would lap up his ridiculous stories.

 

And then he campaigned against this caricature of the EU he created in a bid to get some power for himself with no interest for what it meant for the country. I'm not saying EU politicians are better than UK politicians at all, I suspect they're all the same. I'm just saying it is foolish to celebrate the transfer of power from one set of politicians to another as I don't see what will change, certainly for the everyday man in the street.

 

This is well worth a read https://www.indy100.com/article/a-journalist-has-shared-a-story-about-boris-johnson-that-completely-undermines-his-authority-on-the-eu--bkoHJPBuVZ particularly:

 

"Everything I wrote from Brussels, I found was sort of chucking these rocks over the garden wall and I listened to this amazing crash from the greenhouse next door over in England as everything I wrote from Brussels was having this amazing, explosive effect on the Tory party, and it really gave me this I suppose rather weird sense of power."

 

 

At the risk of sounding like a pretentious prick, I think it is easy for people like me to not realise what life can be like for other parts of the country. Life has stagnated, they can't get a decent job and then they see people coming from all over that take the jobs. We can spout numbers about immigrants helping the economy at them all we like, about how the EU free trade boosts the economy etc, but they're not seeing that benefit so why should they vote to keep it?

 

I voted in and stand by it completely, but have come to understand why a lot of people voted out. Who cares about economic progress if it's only the 1% that are benefiting from it? Something needs to change, might as well be this.

 

I will say though that I don't like the UK government's posturing of saying they know exactly what the UK population have voted for and they know exactly what we want. It's just crazy talk, we all have no idea what we voted for because none of us understand the EU correctly, and lots of people voted for lots of different reasons. Some people voted out to save the NHS ffs, as if they're related.

 

I just don't see what this "new dawn" is supposed to be. We have this imperialist-era big ego and think we're better than the rest of Europe, that they're dragging us down, that they all need each other because they're weak but we don't need them. I fear we're in for a hard fall, but I hope not. Maybe it won't be so bad, it's been better than was predicted so far so I remain hopeful :thumbup1:

 

That wasn't supposed to end up being that long :oops:

 

Some good points here. What I'd like to highlight and agree with even if we voted in different ways is "no one knows". Not me, not you or the next guy. Not expert A B or C. It's virgin ground. There's lots of very loud voices claiming x y and z, most of these people have strong adgendas either way. Be that they are bigoted funkwits who want rid of Johnny forginerer or greedy capitalists who are very much enjoy exploiting cheap EE labour. There are valid reasons for in and out, many need to remember their view or opinion is just that.

We as a democracy had a chat about it, made a choice and our government are upholding it. That's a positive regardless of your choice.

Oh and we're a damn site better off than Portugal though! World happiness report 2017, UK 19th, Portugal 89th

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2017_ranking

 

Oh my goodness Chris quoting Wikipedia is like asking the guy down the pub what he thinks * ( requires citation )

 

Jeff