Ever since my car was painted I always thought the fine swirls left behind was unacceptable, I think the paint shop did a great job but I feel it just needed a bit more attention for perfection. I first noticed it when I got it home on the trailer (in pieces) as the sun shone brightly on the car highlighting very fine swirls.

 

Before the NEC show last year it was my intention to get a professional paint correction carried out on the car but never found the time to organise it. Ever since it was painted, I have been using improper "restricted water washing" techniques or even worse "waterless washing" which has compounded these fine swirls.

 

The paint still looks amazing and with a filler glaze/wax coating, most of them are barely visible but I've still been eager to rectify the damage, protect it and maintain the shine with better techniques. I discovered a range of video tutorials on YouTube by a very entertaining character known as the Junkman and I am now converted!

 

Most importantly, to this thread is his novice guide to machine polishing series which is what I'm going to attempt. I've always been wary of this and usually leave it to the pros but as a full correction now costs upwards of £500 and the Junkman tuition is so good, I'm confident that over a period of several weeks, I can finally get the perfect glass finish that I envisaged at the start (AND KEEP IT THAT WAY!)

 

I have added this little lot to my detailing arsenal to help me along the way following lots of advice and research. I got the car out of the garage today, mainly to give the garage a good clean out to give me room to do the polishing inside and to give the Z a proper wash. It hasn't been properly washed for a while, it had a quick lick at Japfest and got covered in flies on the way home. Whilst it was out in the sun I managed to capture the swirls on the camera to show what I'm working with. I took them before I washed the car so there are a few other marks/spots but you can clearly see the swirl damage, the pictures are of the bootlid from various distances.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not using any type of paint depth/thickness gauge as I'm working on the assumption that the clear coat is thick enough to allow the damage to be removed, if it isn't, then that area will have to be repainted.

Edited May 12, 20169 yr by Joely P
Spelling!

An IPA is a straight Alcohol based cleaner designed to remove oils or excess polish material from the paint, when you finish polishing there is always some residue left on the panel and a wipe over with IPA (can use neat but a 50:50 works fine) removes the excess leaving the surface clean and ready for the Wax/sealant to be applied with good bonding.

 

An APC (all purpose cleaner) is a general cleaner which has chemicals included to remove grease, oils, contaminants and surface pollutants. G101 is such a product and whilst works well for its purpose is not suitable for pre wax panel prep because it will leave residue chemical and oils behind which is what you are trying to remove. An APC is used as part of the wash process not final prep.

 

There are other dedicated panel cleaners for pre wax applications and some of the "brand" products have additional lubricants to aid smooth application, in the real world the time you wipe on and wipe off your IPA won't make any difference to the final prep, i have never had issue with IPA and it's a very popular application in paint prep.

 

Just for reference I would recommend Bilt Hamber's Surfex HD APC which is a Ph neutral product and can be mixed down to as little a 50:1 and still be effective. I use this on everything from Door shuts, wheel arch liners, engine bays and interior dash wipe downs to around the home for Window frames tiles etc. There are others which also work well for cars, but nothing like Surfex for so many applications.

 

As for sealants they are entirely optional after a wax. Obviously waxes have a relatively short life span and don't offer great paint protection, whereas a good sealant will provide a longer duration of wax protection and also help in keeping the car clean and in the process of washing.

I recommend Power Maxed Summer coat as it can be used over the entire car (body, Chrome, Wheels and the glass) it will provide a clear bond that gives fantastic water beading properties as well as adding another layer of gloss protection to the car.

 

There are other specialist sealants which you can have applied G technique/ Nanolex etc but these are not a general LSP and require a specific preparation and application process.

 

http://www.powermaxed.com/clean-your-car/summer-jacket-nano-sealant

 

http://www.bilthamber.com/car-cleaning-and-degreasing/surfex-hd

Edited May 17, 20169 yr by SteveE

Great advice thank you. Does it matter what order wax and sealant is applied? I've always thought that sealant has to be applied before wax as the sealant doesn't bond properly onto wax.

That depends on what sealant you use, You can apply Wax (a sealant for polish but enhances gloss) or a sealant for polish that provides a protective barrier to the paint. This would be the likes of G-technique or Nanolex. If you apply the Summer Coat for instances (sealant by description) it can go on as a last stage product (LSP) giving the wax additional protection as well as providing great a Hydro effective surface that dissipates water and makes it very easy to quickly clean and remove surface dust and contaminates.

 

A wax is not always necessary if you use a sealant as its doing the same job but with a different protective application, I just prefer to layer the products with a top of Sealant for added protection and ease of maintenance.

Thanks for your advice again matey. Always nice to hear different opinions and experiences, one thing I have learnt in this game is that, with the vast array of products on the market, there are many conflicting and strong opinions as to the right or wrong way of doing things!

 

As for sealant, I've only ever used AG EGP so far but that powermaxed stuff looks easier to work with being able to spray on glass and rubber [emoji106] Will have to get me a bottle of that, I had my eye on the CarPro Reload next.

 

It feels like my detailing chemical stash is getting out of control, this picture doesn't include a cupboard and shelf full of other chemicals...

 

It feels like my detailing chemical stash is getting out of control, this picture doesn't include a cupboard and shelf full of other chemicals...

 

Not to mention the need for an extra pair of hands to apply the stuff!

 

Funky "plastic tyre" Simon better not put that horrible stuff on my tyres again!

Funky "plastic tyre" Simon better not put that horrible stuff on my tyres again!

 

Doesn't it improve grip? :lol:

Update: I had a good 5 hours go at this today and finally lost my machine polishing virginity!

 

I gave the bonnet a good claying and tested it with a baggie. For photographic effect, I decided to mask off my starting area. Here's a quick reminder of what I'm working with:

 

https://vimeo.com/167169979

 

 

After my first pass with a white pad primed with M205, this was the result:

 

https://vimeo.com/167170053

 

It still has a fair amount of swirl damage remaining, but for 1 pass the difference is significant. I gave it another couple of passes and it was looking a lot better but I wasn't happy as it left a few of the small, deeper swirls behind. Result of 3 white passes shown on the right here with the untouched finish on the left:

 

 

I then decided to break out the orange pad as I thought 4+ passes over the whole car would be excessive (the paint condition is very similar all over). I made an executive decision at this point to break the Junkman rules by moving onto the area next to where I had been working; the reason for this was simply so I could experience and compare cut-rates between 1 pass of orange with M105 to 3 passes of white with M205.

 

With 1 pass of the orange pad primed with M105 on a fresh area (working a bit more on a couple of concentrated, deeper scratches), the finish had slightly less swirls than the 3 white/205 passes area. Happy with that, I gave the first area a quick breeze over with the orange/105 to even the finish. This was the result:

 

https://vimeo.com/167173061

 

I finished it off with a couple of white/205 passes over the 2 areas (separately) and was happy with the finish. I removed the "non-residue" masking tape (that left a residue!) and wow, what a difference:

 

https://vimeo.com/167173863

 

 

 

Time had flown by and the kids were home from school so I sprayed my pads with a 10:1 solution of Megs APC from a foaming sprayer and left them to dwell whilst I tidied up cleaning them afterwards as per the pad cleaning video (worked a treat).

 

I followed the Junkman's guides to the letter and I think it was a very successful start to this project and my introduction into machine polishing. By the end I had a good feel for the speed and general use of the Das6, I will hopefully get another few hours to do some more tomorrow, probably quite a bit more now I'm more familiar.

 

A big recommendation from me if anyone is considering taking the plunge and tackling this job themselves using the Junkman's technique. It's likely I will not update the thread for a while as it will just be more of the same (and it's a pain to keep stopping to take pictures!) so I'll keep plodding along with this over the coming weeks/months.

 

Joel.

Edited May 18, 20169 yr by Joely P

A great effort, where you using 205 with the white pad?

 

The level of swirl you have, I would of gone for 105 on a white pad first then moved to an orange if the level of cut hadn't been achieved, also you don't need to keep going over with the same combo just up the pad and/or product cut.

 

Satisfying though when you get the results.

Great stuff mate well done.

A great effort, where you using 205 with the white pad?

 

The level of swirl you have, I would of gone for 105 on a white pad first then moved to an orange if the level of cut hadn't been achieved, also you don't need to keep going over with the same combo just up the pad and/or product cut.

 

Satisfying though when you get the results.

 

Im sure there several different combos and methods but to avoid confusion I strictly followed the technique in the Junkman guides. This taught me to use the 105 with the orange pad for a bigger cut and finish with the 205 on a white pad. With experience I'm sure I'll learn other tricks but this simple technique is effective enough for a novice like me I think.

Im sure there several different combos and methods but to avoid confusion I strictly followed the technique in the Junkman guides. This taught me to use the 105 with the orange pad for a bigger cut and finish with the 205 on a white pad. With experience I'm sure I'll learn other tricks but this simple technique is effective enough for a novice like me I think.

 

Agreed!

 

Product, pads, paint, polish, preparation, Perfection!.....takes the P out of the old wash and wax and that's the fun of it.

I've noticed after my final pass with a white pad/205 that there are still remanence of tiny swirls. You have to get really quite close to spot them and they're difficult to pick up on a video but I managed to capture it in the video below. (The swirly section I move into for contrast is an area prepped by the orange pad/105 and is as expected for a cutting finish)

 

https://vimeo.com/167252754

 

It's worth noting that after the final white pad pass and initial buffing of the area yesterday, these swirls were practically invisible. However, it seems that as soon as I prepare the surface for sealing with a light spritz of IPA (I've also tried QD), once I've very gently wiped it off with a waffle weave, it uncovers more swirls.

 

My question is:

- do you think it's possible that I've reached the limitation of the 205 on my paint type (it seems remarkably soft - I witnessed putting in fine scratches with the eagle edgeless trying to remove a stubborn polish mark!

- or do I simply need to continue until these (possibly just deeper) swirls have gone and make sure my technique is on point?

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by Joely P

The IPA would of cleaned out any existing swirls of polish residue which is why you can now see them, why not make another pass with the 205 but using an Orange pad, either that or 105 and start with a white.

 

You have more than likely reached the cutting capacity of the pad than the polish, make sure the pad is primed properly so your not using any dry spot and I wouldn't recommend using QD as it will fill the paint with product.

Ok, I'll have a play around. I just thought with the white pad being the finest cut and the 205 being the finest cutting compound, combining the 2 should give the best possible finish?

But you had some fairly extensive swirl marks to remove before you can arrive at a finish and using a fine cut polish and pad is for light defects, the advantage of using a harder pad is it will make the finer 205 compound work harder, quicker before it breaks down to the final polish.

 

You can mist the pad with water to allow the polish to spread a bit thinner, this will give you a longer working window to polish out.

Edited May 19, 20169 yr by SteveE

Been watching the junkman video tonight great advise but God he knows how to talk .

Bare with him Ian, it really is worth it and eventually you'll appreciate his humour/character. (Maybe [emoji1])

Bit of a late update here, after taking advice from Junkman, I naively went through probably 10 years of polishing clear coat on a section of my bonnet! Whilst I learnt a lot from his tutorials, I have now adapted and merged advice from others to form my own techniques (including yourself Steve, many thanks). It is very time consuming so I have been chipping away between work and life commitments but I had to stop a few weeks ago to use the car. I will soon crack on again, starting the final cut with an ultra fine polish and pad to achieve the finish that I have been seeking.

 

Here's how it looks currently, although in these pics it's quite dusty!

 

 

Do you think there's anything to be said for paint correction where the clear coat is beginning to peel in areas, or would that be too far gone?

Do you think there's anything to be said for paint correction where the clear coat is beginning to peel in areas, or would that be too far gone?

 

Too far gone. Paint correction merely takes out minor defects within the clear coat. Once the clear coat has gone, there's nothing to correct.

Here's how it looks currently, although in these pics it's quite dusty!

 

Yeah sure is filthy, in fact i don't know how you've the nerve to post up when it's in this diabolic condition :wacko:.

Looking good mate! My detailing days are few and far between now - too many kids!!

When I finally get round to sorting out my garaged Z, a good detailing session is definitely on the cards - and to be honest I can't wait! :)

Got my bright white Legacy B4 to sort out soon too - white paint = sunglasses on :lol:

love your zed , cracking job buddy ....going to have a go at mine next time off shift ......will post up some pics before and after

Bit of a late update here, after taking advice from Junkman, I naively went through probably 10 years of polishing clear coat on a section of my bonnet! Whilst I learnt a lot from his tutorials, I have now adapted and merged advice from others to form my own techniques (including yourself Steve, many thanks). It is very time consuming so I have been chipping away between work and life commitments but I had to stop a few weeks ago to use the car. I will soon crack on again, starting the final cut with an ultra fine polish and pad to achieve the finish that I have been seeking.

 

Here's how it looks currently, although in these pics it's quite dusty!

 

 

 

Nicest Z in Europe!!

 

...however, now just the UK.... lol