Gt28rs tubs 60Ar and one bar aquators.three inch dp and three inch test pipes.fmic.how much reliable power. What 500 bhp.with a noel map.,?

I sure do hope mine produces a good 300bhp!! Hehe

Rods & crank are forged from the factory. The stock pistons are cast, but still strong and can cope with 600+

 

A contradiction there I'm sure :yes:

When rebuilding, either by choice or necessity, it is a no-brainer to use aftermarket parts when looking to increase power to 550+bhp. That is a given. But this thread is not about that. No one is rebuilding anything here :laugh:

 

No mention of rebuilding, true, but power gains requested by the op remain the same, so my advice is equal to what you have written here noel surely?

Maybe we could use 3 forged pistons and 3 cast ones to keep the cost down? :biggrin:

A contradiction there I'm sure :yes:

 

You would be incorrect. Again. I have tuned a stock bottom end to well over 600bhp. I am most definitely not the only person to do so. "Cast" doesn't automatically mean weak. Not when talking about typical JDM engines such as the VG, CA, 3SGTE etc.

You make no sense noel, you state stock pistons cope with 600+ hp then you state it's a no brainier to upgrade for 550+ hip! which is what I advised at the very beginning! come on mate keep it consistent.

No mention of rebuilding, true, but power gains requested by the op remain the same, so my advice is equal to what you have written here noel surely?

 

No. Your advice is incorrect. No need for forged rods at 550bhp. OP isn't rebuilding, if he was then forged internals would be a no-brainer. A healthy VG will run at 550bhp all day long, that won't change no matter how many posts you make in this thread

You make no sense noel, you state stock pistons cope with 600+ hp then you state it's a no brainier to upgrade for 550+ hip! which is what I advised at the very beginning! come on mate keep it consistent.

 

Let me try and make it crystal clear, you appear to be struggling.

 

OP isn't rebuilding. Forged internals not required for power levels.

 

If someone is rebuilding, no-brainer to use aftermarket parts. Reasons already given.

No. Your advice is incorrect. No need for forged rods at 550bhp. OP isn't rebuilding, if he was then forged internals would be a no-brainer. A healthy VG will run at 550bhp all day long, that won't change no matter how many posts you make in this thread

 

My advice is indeed correct, regardless of wether a rebuild is being suggested or not, the advice of replacing internals for better quality components when looking to reach those power figures is sound advice, you have stated this yourself noel, what your saying is a stock bottom end will run at 600+ hp until it craps itself all over the M1 north from Leicester , then inform the owner that some internal work should have been carried before it was tuned to that level. My advice avoids that scenario and is the correct way to do a job, who cares what a VG makes on a dyno for one given session, it's about doing it with reliability and peace of mind.

Signing off on this now as I'm :headvswal

My advice is indeed correct, regardless of wether a rebuild is being suggested or not, the advice of replacing internals for better quality components when looking to reach those power figures is sound advice, you have stated this yourself noel, what your saying is a stock bottom end will run at 600+ hp until it craps itself all over the M1 north from Leicester , then inform the owner that some internal work should have been carried before it was tuned to that level. My advice avoids that scenario and is the correct way to do a job, who cares what a VG makes on a dyno for one given session, it's about doing it with reliability and peace of mind.

 

Hmm. That's a scenario that has never happened, and would never happen yet you appear to be insinuating that is how I operate. Precisely what do you understand about mapping & engine building? I'm no engine builder, but I get to work very closely with a brilliant engine builder Mr Jimmer. At this point, it would now be appropriate for you to answer the question:

 

That can work both ways! May I ask what is your experience is in VG30DETT engine building?

 

 

What I am in fact saying over & over again is that the VG does not need uprated internals for 550bhp. Your advice was incorrect. I know this because of the work I have done with the VG. The stock pistons are suitably strong at that level. The rods aren't troubled in the slightest. The fact you mention rods in your first post reveals how little you actually know about this engine, yet you have somehow come to the conclusion I map Zeds to the point of destruction. I think you'll find you are incorrect there as well, yet again. By all means, please explain why you mentioned uprated rods. I take it you have built several VG engines, and know something I and many others, do not. What are the failure modes you have seen at this power level? Did you even know that the rods were forged from the factory?

 

If someone is building an engine to a certain spec, aftermarket parts are a preferable choice. Even if the immediate power levels are lower than what the stock engine can comfortably tolerate, it allows for future power gains. If someone wants to achieve 550bhp or higher on a stock bottom end, it isn't halted by the necessity to spend thousands on a rebuilt forged engine. There is a distinct difference between the two scenarios. If someone needs to run 700bhp on a stock bottom end, say in order to make a race weekend, that is also possible. I know this from experience, funnily enough. Thing is, you need to take into account what the car is going to be used for, and how often it is to be used. For any kind of sustained track work, I would recommend forged pistons, along with other internal modifications/upgrades at 450bhp if I was to be working with the car. But, this is off-topic. Fact still remains, OP doesn't require several thousand pounds to be spent on forged pistons & aftermarket rods for 550bhp. If he is planning on rebuilding for whatever reason (fun, higher power levels in the future, track work, tired current engine), then yes, obviously fit them. Clear yet?

 

I couldn't give a hoot about dyno numbers when it comes to customer's cars. If you read all the "BHP predictions" threads, you'll find out that it's the owners themselves that care. The dyno is but a tool for me, with a torque output from which a lot of information can be gleaned. All experimentation is done on my own cars. If you knew anything about this subject, maybe you would understand.

 

Regardless of your snide comments, my advice is based on experience. Please share yours. I am happy in the fact there is always someone out there with more knowledge than myself. I take it you have done similar to mapping a stock unopened 130k 2L 3SGTE to 500+ on pump fuel at 2.3 bar on a GReddy T78 (failure mode was #2 piston ringlands, not the stock composite head gasket), 383hp (hubs) on a stock CA18DET and achieved 450+bhp & 481lb·ft on the stock 300zx fuel system at 1.7bar on standard auto turbos.

FFS. Get over it will ya's.

 

Noel, I don't think he was purposely having a dig in his comments.

 

In short, to put this to bed... It's possible to get 550bhp on stock internals. If you're rebuilding, it makes sense to upgrade the bits. Also depends on what you use the car for.

 

Can ya's just drop it?

Why? Are technical debates not allowed now?

 

I'm here to give advice & information based on my experience and will continue to do so :)

Edited December 28, 201410 yr by Noz

Just feels very argumentative tbh mate

Just feels very argumentative tbh mate

 

That's not necessarily a bad thing :)

 

It's a good topic, albeit done to death now I suppose.

Finish him!! Haha

Finish him!! Haha

 

http://youtu.be/ySEGcGTctI0

The original doesn't look that good nowadays but was one of the best games ever. I loved MK3 too. The new one looks like its going to be fantastic

It looks so primitive now, and to think of the amount of hours I used to play that game!

It looks so primitive now, and to think of the amount of hours I used to play that game!

 

At least you didn't have to knob about getting it setup, you just plugged it in and started playing. Bloody PSN network is annoying me.

All i asked is with a pair of gt2860rs turbos and this mods .a fmic .2.5 to 3inch devorsed dps and test pipes. New bottom end shells and bearing to make sure the bottom end is nice and tight. New cam belt.some breathing mods.would or could i aspect a reliable 500. Also a mapping day at Noels .

and i got my anwser whitch is yes. And no im not rebuilding the engine. Oh and forgot the injectors..if Noel had said to me you i would recomend you put different internals in for that sort of power i would aim for somthing less. My engine does not knock tick or make anyother noises to surjest that i need a rebuild.

If on the other hand i was to rebuild my engine then it stands to reson that yes of course i would use the quality aftermarket parts and forged pistons ect.

But because my car only does less than five thou miles a year.as it is im work away 6 mounths a year.and i have no intrest of traking my car.at best i might give it some would say spirited street driving. During the summer mounths when the roads are dry.but its nice to know i can put my foot down and say buy buy to my brothers db9. Of whitch i can do now.but nice nowing that i got it when you need it.

so if i can acheave this on my standerd motor ill be happy. If i was to race my car everywere and track it then im sure Noels awnse would have been different.but with them mods just wandering what sort of power could i get or aspect. That said i love these threads cas thats how i learn stuff.so thanks for all your constructive comments. And the not so constructive make it a bit of light intertainment along the way.

Common sense prevails :laugh:

 

My posts in this thread pertain solely to your car and how it will be used. Glad it was obvious.

Interesting thread, I agree with Noel here.

 

Simply due to reading that the guys in the USA with tons of expereince in this subject, Greg Dupree, etc give similar information.

 

Plenty of research means good reliable information for us guys.

 

Infact in the USA they rate the standard blocks to very high power levels without any mods, up until a few years ago on here I was told rebuild the engine if you want over 400bhp!

Yup, few years ago you would have been seen as bonkers even bolting up a set of tiny gt525s etc to a stock bottom end. The Americans regularly and reliably run good power on healthy stock blocks. The tide is changing.

The VG is a genuine race engine, strangled by metres & metres of intake piping, restrictive exhaust components and emission requirements. Detuned for the general public to try and meet the 280ps JDM gentleman's agreement. It's not voodoo, it's engineering.