Hi,

 

Most people know that I work as a FireFighter and if anybody wants to ask me questions about the strike, feel free.

 

The current state of play with a firefighter is that they clear £46 a day, most of my colleagues want to be able to afford to buy their own home and support their Families without relying on income support. I like many others have to depend upon other forms of income, (hence the reason why I can afford to run more than one car).

 

If anybody wants to, feel free to contribute any wind ups, insults and other distractions to the real issue, LOL, I've got some Hope!!

 

Mark

Originally posted by Timmy_Turbo

Have you done it yet then Dave??? Strike I mean???

 

No, because it's not really possible where I work and I don't actually want to at the moment---> I was just making a point that the argument that because someone feels it necessary to strike, does not mean that they SHOULD strike. People can strike out of GREED...you remember the 70's ?

 

Chill bud,

Dave.

Originally posted by Nelson MainFella

No, because it's not really possible where I work and I don't actually want to at the moment---> I was just making a point that the argument that because someone feels it necessary to strike, does not mean that they SHOULD strike. People can strike out of GREED...you remember the 70's ?

 

Chill bud,

Dave.

 

:D

 

Okey kokey!

 

You still up for that tea and scone meeting next week bud??? LMFAO :D

Yes, but don't forget the crumpets this time !;) :D :p

I dont think many people realise just how valuable a firemans pension really is. Most in the private sector see more and more companies stopping final salary schemes for money purchase schemes. Even insurance companies. Why? because they can give a pay cut of about 15% with hardly anybody realising its being done to them and younger people especially not even thinking it affects them.

 

A firemans pension must be worth in the region of 25% of gross salary in real private sector terms, maybe more when early retirement possibilities are included.

 

So while I agree a catch up in basic rate is warranted please include the perks as well in the comparison and be aware that the private sector actually has falling salaries when pension commitments by employers are included.

 

Public sector pensions are generally a promise carried by the private sector. Private sector pensions are generally a bet on the stock market. If your employer goes bust so can your pension.

Glad to see you've calmed down a bit Kinace!

 

 

Originally posted by kinace And replied to by Mark

Hello again guys....particularly YOU Topless.

 

My points are based upon FACT.....I find most of your replies,well, shall we say 'unreliable', just to be kind.

 

The Fire Service, FBU, Government and media, are in themselves large beaurocracies and Facts are a scarce resource, as in any beaurocracy! I would be interested to know where you could find out such 'facts' without again blaming the FBU or the Fire Service for getting it wrong!

 

I did mention in my earlier posts that you don't appear to know what is going on in your own 'service'..or lack of, as I write.

 

You mentioned that your members (the FBU ) are seeking to overturn the overtime ban. Ummm....don't think so.

Your union rep on Newsnight (a guy called MacGhee) said that the overtime ban (imposed in 1977...only been going TWENTY FIVE years!) was being challenged by the EMPLOYERS!

He also stated that 'it had created 6,000 jobs' - ho,hum...not overstaffed then are we? He also stated that any moves to overturn it would be strongly resisted.

 

The strike of 1977 brought about a set of staff conditions in the fire service called the Grey Book and enshrined in Law.

In those days the Government followed Keynesian economic policy, and their theories of full employment, partly the reason for these policies.

If the FBU dropped one part of the 'Grey Book', they would have to drop them all, also the FBU has an political agenda as do most unions, and full employment in the fire service is a better than having too few firefighters as we see presently.

As part of the agreement, rejected by two jags cos he was having a lay in, the FBU agreed to overtime being allowed and more paramedic training!

 

Just out of interest Paramedic training isn't banned, it is a change in our job conditions. We are currently trained to first aid level and some FF's take it upon themselves to take this further, the equipment or personnel are not available to administer this service at the moment. God know where we'll find them,mayve that spare 6000.

The government hasn't funded this expansion of the fire service role, as indeed, you might be surprised to know we are not funded to cut people out of cars/trains/machinery,the main responsibility of the Fire Rescue Units. Which have been identified as being woefully understaffed in the case of a terrorist attack. The government promised £280 million to redress this equipment/personnel shortfall, which London has still not received.

FF's can be paramedics sure, but why not make police paramedics as well, they are first on the scene of RTA's, stabbings,etc.

Again if the police were trained along those lines you would be changing their conditions as well and they would want there job status redressed!

 

In an earlier thread I also mentioned the night-time staffing levels...you replied that 'as far as you knew' there had never been any moves to reduce night-time staffing levels...hey! GUESS WHAT??...YOUR union rep. was accussing the employer's spokesman of trying to 'close down' fire stations at night-time..any moves to reduce night-time coverage would be , yep, you guessed it ...strongly resisted.

 

There are no moves in London to reduce night time staffing levels but move FF's from the financial sector of London, dead at night, to the busier outer areas. Other Brigades I do not study!

 

These financial areas in London are , prime targets in the past and present for terrorist attack!

 

 

Well...either I'm psychic...or I have a better insight into what is happening in your 'work (or lack of at the moment) sector'.

 

If you are a betting man - put a LOAD on the FFS changing....but maybe not quite in the way you guys wanted..the old 'cosy' working practices will be on the way out.

 

'Cosy' I wouldn't call crawling into a room on your belly, surrounded by a floor temp of 250 degrees and a head height temp of 1000 degrees, 'cosy'.

 

Doesn't it worry you that the union were ready to settle at 16%?..I mean, here are you guys trying to justify 40% (which is SO unrealistic) and there they are ready to settle for that.

Ever get the feeling that you've been had over..hey, that Andy Gilchrist..WHADDA GUY!!!

 

Personally I don't know Andy Gilchrist, and I don't know anybody that does, so I won't make a judgement on him. I don't know if it was the commitee behind him that voted to pursue 40%, or he was voting for a lower figure or not! The support for him within my colleagues is stronger than ever, at this point in time he seems to be more credible than anyone in the government or the employers!

 

I will reiterate one of my earlier points:-

 

Any 'work sector' (it sure as hell ain't SKILLED work...you can come back at me on that one, I am waiting) that has an abundance of people wanting to join it and virtually no-one leaving it....well, can't really be too BAD now can it?

 

 

'ain't Skilled work', I am afraid the employers and FBU disagree with you, one thing to come out of this dispute,separate of government rejection. Is that the FF's have changed their employment group to 'Technical and Professional' on the pay formula.

 

No the work is great, I love it, and I have a great laugh with my colleagues. Maybe a lot of the people trying to join aren't up to the job which is why they are rejected! But why should people who enjoy their work be underpaid?

 

I'm not going to go into the discussion about how much time you spend actually fire-fighting...or the fact that statiscally being a fisherman (and how much do they get paid?) is far more life-threatening. I personally respect (or, more accurately, respected) you guys. Yes, you do deserve more money....but not 40%....I'd have backed you probably up to 20%.

 

Who said we aren't realistically going for 20%? At the moment a FF with a family qualifies for income support that brings him nearly to 25K, so the Taxpayer pays for it in one way or another!

 

My whole issue here is:-

 

40%...NEVER going to happen....

so why go on strike over that and risk (hmmm..maybe 'condemn

to death' might be a bit strong..but, hey, tell it to their relatives) alienation from the public.

Yes..I've watched the news tonight, and I've seen the bit about the old woman giving her cheque to the Firefighter....I just thought that it was really sad that he took it...didn't she need the money more?

 

 

Look, Mark...I really do appreciate the job you guys do...but you have got this one SO wrong.

I have nothing against you personally...I don't even know you...I just think that this was not a very good forum to air this topic

 

Why not air it on this forum, if people don't want to read it or reply then they have the freedom to ignore it!

 

 

 

This strike will very probably result in :-

 

A total revision (modernisation) of working practices...GOOD THING!!

The total emasculation of the FBU...actually not such a good thing.

The alienation of the public...due to....

The inevitable death of members of that community that you claim to serve...how BAD can a BAD THING be?

 

Look at yourself in the mirror and convince yourself (you'll NEVER convince me) that it has all been worth it...even if it is 40%..which we both know it won't be.

 

Yes it has, no convincing needed!

 

The public safety is the government's responsibility, if they don't want a strike then pay us a fair wage, or, make it illegal for us to strike!

 

Our shift system would be e.g. starting on monday at 0900-1800 for two days, then two nights 1800- 0900 the next day, finally finshing at 0900 on fri morning (48 hours in total) followed by three days off!

 

Willie,

 

the firemans pension is a valuable asset, we do pay 15% to it, I don't think a comparison to the private is fair due to the higher wages in the private sector!

For instance a 15 year fireman I spoke to had his son start his first job, a junior bank clerk, his son was earning £500 a year more than him!

 

 

Mark

Originally posted by TopLess

The public safety is the government's responsibility

 

This is a really important point which I don't think has been at the front of my mind and probably many others.

 

If the government supplied fire engines which just had washer bottles instead of water tanks & pumps then we'd all complain that they were cutting corners with the equipment. And, with no disrespect to firefighters, they are one of the pieces of equipment.

 

To me then, I reckon that the going rate is the fair rate. And that's the going rate for people who do the same job - not a similar one. I'd love to see nurses etc getting more money but actually that's a different debate. Same employer (sort of) but different debate.

I was surprised to learn that more people die on building sites than as working Fire Fighters.

 

Before a FF died earlier this year, it was 5 years since one died !!

Originally posted by Nelson MainFella

I was surprised to learn that more people die on building sites than as working Fire Fighters.

 

Before a FF died earlier this year, it was 5 years since one died !!

 

doesnt make the job any less dangerous though..

 

anyone know the stats for armed services personnel over the same period ? excluding the "friendly fire" casualties

 

the "government" takes the p!ss out of everyone indiscriminately...

 

nurses, firefighters, forces, motorists, tax payers... :D

Rhetorical poll

 

Would you rather :

 

(a) walk onto a building site

(b) cut a dead child out of a car wreck

© go into a burning inferno to rescue total strangers

I think that could more of an indication of poor health and safety enforcement, maybe due to Government cuts:mad:

 

Than an indication of the involvement of those persons to a hazardous environment!

 

Before I joined the brigade I have done a bit of labouring and have seen the shortcuts people make to achieve a profit over the safety of the workers and public. Sounds like the Government again!

 

Plus in London alone we seem to have an increase in illegal workers who will do anything from labouring to bouncing at cut rate prices. Something that will always unfortunately increase the accident figures.

 

Mark

Have to say tho' (while not agreeing with recent action) - you gotta respect anyone who is prepared to do what firemen do.

 

Bet there's a lot of really sound guys in the FFS ? Hey, Topless ?

 

;)

what a class thread...Nelson on top form with all guns blazing...didnt even get locked :D

what a class thread...Nelson on top form with all guns blazing...didnt even get locked :D

 

 

Stirrer :D

what a class thread...Nelson on top form with all guns blazing...didnt even get locked :D

 

Dude......... the forum was different way back in 2002 ;) Anything goes springs to mind........ :D

 

Anyhow. That's how it was, and this is how it is now all nice and squeaky clean :)

Im sory mate, but you know what the pay was like befor you took teh job as did I and many like me when I become a soldier and now a tennis coach, neither are highly paid jobs but are suposedly exciting. You took the job because you wanted the excitement, going on strike to get more money and putting my family at risk is not acceptable. This goes for all the services, its just not a valid argument to strike, if you need more money get a better paying job like we have to.

 

I do beleive you need a pay increase, as do the nurses, police and the soldiers. Striking aint the way to do it as you knew what you where getting into when you signed up

Its 4 years old that thread the strikes over deve8uk lol!!

Everyone always forgets prison officers when they talk about "services"

They drag behind all other services with regards to pay and pay rises.

 

Nobody cares as long as the bad guys arnt on the streets.

I work in IT as its very stimulating with good pay. I would also be happy if i stayed with my dad on a building site. Office life can really suck, its like life on acid. Good people turned into twats. I like to smirk at sales people and recruitment consultants. Go earn that big dollar and let your heart rot.

 

Wahey flamage thread. Feel like im on one of my computer game forums. I hardly play up but this thread is so absurd its funny :)

LOL yes it is 4 years time to move on :D