Lots of white smoke when revving engine

[Noz]

It's also missing the cambelt covers (IIRC), the injector rails, injectors, coil packs etc. I forwarded the CAS on to Rich about a week after he bought the engine in January, so that should have been with it, too.

 

It was definitely not sold in that condition. The only explanation for the rust is that it has been left outside for some time.

 

dicky96: Is the white smoke sweet-smelling or acrid?

[dicky96]

OK if I can help

 

The engine was kept stored indoors and locked away, same as is the old one I got back from Jeff. Noz you remember where we dropped the egine off and covered it with a plastic sheet? A couple days later I moved it into the old car wash behine my m8s garage and there it stayed.

 

I did remove the plenum to get it powder coated (even rang jeff as I could not get it off - turned out I had missed one bolt)

 

I did take the cambelt covers off to get them sprayed red - you can see that from my engine pics.

 

I did not remove anything else from the engine.

 

Noz you did send me the CAS unit a week or so later. I still have it here as I forgot to take it with me. I did mention this to Jeff and asked if I should post it on but he said he could use the one of my old engine.

 

My instructions on fitting were to check it all over, replace bottom end bearings while it was out, fit the best of the four turbos (ones from new engine and from my old one) as I simply could not afford to refurrb them, and to phone me if there was anything important I needed to know about. I then went to Spain for four weeks

 

Nothing else was removed from the engine by me

 

Re smell of smoke - it's pretty choking but I would not call it 'acrid' enouh folks got a lungfull at the show perhaps they would comment?

 

Geoff - the engine did not arrive in that condition - it had rags stuffed into various orifices to stop anything falling in where it should not and a rubber mat over the top where I removed the plenum and it had blue rope wrapped around it not that white strap thing which I do not recall ever seeing. Ands what is that grey pipe thing over the top with a blue thing in the end????

 

I honestly do not know what has gone wrong here

 

 

 

Rich

Edited June 17, 2013 by dicky96
more addiitional info

[dicky96]

My aplogies, I can see the rubber mat over the top coiled up

[300ZX_666]

I was behind you in convoy Rich, it did start burning the back of my throat while we were queued waiting to go in, but as you know it was quite a long time. I also had deposits of oil or something like it on my windscreen. This is in no way me complaining buddy, just hope it may help in some way.

[dicky96]

I was behind you in convoy Rich, it did start burning the back of my throat while we were queued waiting to go in, but as you know it was quite a long time. I also had deposits of oil or something like it on my windscreen. This is in no way me complaining buddy, just hope it may help in some way.

 

Not a complaint, and thanks for the info - hopefully it will help. I'm not the one havinfg to breathe this stuff afterall

 

Rich

[300ZX_666]

No problem buddy, I hope it can shed some light for you.

[dicky96]

Some light would be good.... if i could see it through the smoke ROFL

 

Rich

[300ZX_666]

lol, at least you have kept your excellent sense of humor bud, I hope you can get it all sorted and with as little wallet damage as possible.

[Noz]

I was behind you in convoy Rich, it did start burning the back of my throat while we were queued waiting to go in, but as you know it was quite a long time. I also had deposits of oil or something like it on my windscreen. This is in no way me complaining buddy, just hope it may help in some way.

 

I once had a Sapphire Cosworth that chucked oil over the cars behind me accompanied by masses of blue & white smoke. The little end bearings were shot plus the head had been skimmed too much. The pistons were hitting the head it was that bad. Still went like the clappers, but bought a new engine before it inevitably went bang.

 

---------------------------

Rich:

 

The amount of rust that are on the pulleys & tensioner can only have developed from being left exposed to the elements at some point. It was removed on Sunday night/Monday morning, and delivered to you on the same Monday afternooon IIRC. It had been parked before then maybe 2 weeks since I had bought the car, with the belts in place. Rust on the near-side actuator rod as well.

 

You'll have to report back the compression test results. If they are OK, see if there is oil residue in the turbo elbows. Get a borescope down the plug holes.

 

Just seen the video. That's a huge amount of smoke. The plug looks wet with oil in the pics, but hard to tell. Could be a combination of leaking turbo seals & piston ring failure.

 

 

Geoff - the engine did not arrive in that condition - it had rags stuffed into various orifices to stop anything falling in where it should not and a rubber mat over the top where I removed the plenum and it had blue rope wrapped around it not that white strap thing which I do not recall ever seeing. Ands what is that grey pipe thing over the top with a blue thing in the end????

 

I honestly do not know what has gone wrong here

 

Rich

 

That blue thing is a t-piece. But I kept all the vac lines & t-pieces for use with the HDi EBC. I'm tight like that.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Noz

[dicky96]

The local garage (who specialises in Jap cars actually) had a good look for me today, so now there are some facts to go on

 

The compression result is 180 for every cylinder - which he tells me is perfect

 

There is a lot of oil getting into the nearside bank of cylinders, especially the rear one (cylinder 6 I believe now someone pointed out the correct numbering)

 

I have some pics of the some of plugs - the one from cylinder 6 is the one with the most oil as seen in the attached pics, he tells me that all came off the plug! The dry one is of the offside bank.

 

He had a borosacope down each cylinder and can't see anything obvious wrong apart from number 6 is coated with oil and there is also some oil in 4 and 2

 

There best diagnosis is either valve stem oil seals or fauklty oil rings on pistons

 

Due to the amount of oil combined with the perfect compression results he favours valve stem oil seals being the culprit. He says this is especially likely if the engine has stood for a long time.

 

Does that sound likely?

 

Rich

PS here's some plugs to look at......

[Stephen]

Well, there you go then. Not fun.

[MarkDerby]

those pics of the plugs with oil on them ... doesn't look like its oil in the cylinders but more in the plug hole

with that much oil run off the plug ...

 

oil in the cylinders that's unburnt would have the Spark end cap covered in wet oil but it isn't

that leads me to believe that the cam cover is leaking and is quit common for that

 

as you have said all intake pipe work looks clean and free from oil and the cylinders having good comp

 

it defo points to more of the turbo seal on the exhaust side that's fail

now i know the Tubs and engine was working fine before to what i have been told

 

and i know Jeff has selected the turbos that Least Shaft movement

but as anyone knows these are all 2nd hand items and things do go wrong

 

my advice is the 2 tubs u have go get them rebuilt with new parts and get them fitted

as really this should of been done to start with

[MarkDerby]

oh and forgot to say this would all so be your problem with dropping a cylinder ... the coilpack/plug will be grounding out

[Stephen]

those pics of the plugs with oil on them ... doesn't look like its oil in the cylinders but more in the plug hole

with that much oil run off the plug ...

 

oil in the cylinders that's unburnt would have the Spark end cap covered in wet oil but it isn't

that leads me to believe that the cam cover is leaking and is quit common for that

 

as you have said all intake pipe work looks clean and free from oil and the cylinders having good comp

 

it defo points to more of the turbo seal on the exhaust side that's fail

now i know the Tubs and engine was working fine before to what i have been told

 

and i know Jeff has selected the turbos that Least Shaft movement

but as anyone knows these are all 2nd hand items and things do go wrong

 

my advice is the 2 tubs u have go get them rebuilt with new parts and get them fitted

as really this should of been done to start with

 

To a certain extent I agree with you mark, As I was saying yesterday the colour of the smoke etc suggests rear turbo oil seal, that smoke just doesn't look like combusted oil. However the bottom plug is very black on the tip, I would say that cylinder has been burning oil. Its bloody confusing, oil shouldn't be able to pass the threads on the plugs and gain access to the cylinder should it. I recon if you removed the turbo elbow, opened the wastegate and dipped your finger in there a pool of oil would be found.

[JeffTT]

Turbo elbows were removed when the engine was checked over all was completely dry.

 

Jeff

 

[dicky96]

As I explained before and to Jeff when I dropped the car off, I simply don't have the funds right now to rebuild the turbos

 

Maybe in the autumn that will be a different matter as I am self employed and my business is seasonal.... but I wanted to get the car running well for the summer so I can enjoy it (or a least I hoped to) and that was the best I could do.

 

The turbos fitted were the ones that came with the new engine

 

I asked that the best two be selected. Whether the two off the new engine are better than the old ones i don't know but I will say the old ones worked really well and Jeff in the past you mentioned to me how well they were pushing.

 

Jeff showed me the impellers (or are they turbines) in the ones attached to my old engine and they were dry and you could turn them with your finger. He told me the ones off the new engine were the same condition though obviously I never saw those. TBH I am suprised at how small they are!! But other than that I am no mechaninc so that is all I can comment on the turbos

 

It would appear to me I have between my old engine (which had a knock on the bottom end but the turbos and head seemed fine) and the new one (with its oil leak) all the ingredients required to sort this out - I've not asked for this on the forum before, and I don't mind mucking in with the work, but what I really could use right now is some help to fix this mess

 

 

Rich

Edited June 18, 2013 by dicky96
usual speelin problems

[Stephen]

Turbo elbows were removed when the engine was checked over all was completely dry.

 

Jeff

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]71302[/ATTACH]

Just to clarify jeff I wasn't questioning you, merely trying to help with diagnosis. However in reality as you said earlier there's no guarantee to what happens with second hand parts, what they were doing last week is no guarantee of what's occuring now.

[dicky96]

those pics of the plugs with oil on them ... doesn't look like its oil in the cylinders but more in the plug hole

with that much oil run off the plug ...

 

oil in the cylinders that's unburnt would have the Spark end cap covered in wet oil but it isn't

that leads me to believe that the cam cover is leaking and is quit common for that

 

as you have said all intake pipe work looks clean and free from oil and the cylinders having good comp

 

it defo points to more of the turbo seal on the exhaust side that's fail

now i know the Tubs and engine was working fine before to what i have been told

 

and i know Jeff has selected the turbos that Least Shaft movement

but as anyone knows these are all 2nd hand items and things do go wrong

 

my advice is the 2 tubs u have go get them rebuilt with new parts and get them fitted

as really this should of been done to start with

 

 

Hi Mark

From what I understand of your post do you think there are two separate issues here?

 

Are you saying the oil could be running down the plug threads and into the engine that way because of a leaking cam cover? The boroscope shows lots of oil coating cylinder 6 in particular. What's involved in diagnosing and fixing this if it is the cause.

 

Now you mention it I do recall Jeff saying he had selected the two turbos with the least chaft movement.

 

How much of a job is it to to check the turbo seals on the exhaust side? Is it a matter of unbolting the exhausts with the car up on a ramp to check that? It's still at the garage across the way so I guess that could be done next if it's going to prove where the problem lies.

 

What would be involved with swapping the turbos off my old engine on to the new one? Does the engine have to come out to do that?

 

Rich

[dicky96]

Mark

 

I just took a couple pics of other plugs removed from the engine. These have a different appearance to that one with the oil pool but a dry blackened end

 

The ends on these look wetter (but nothing really rubbed off on my finger when I tried the one still attached to the coil pack)

 

Do these pics shed any more light on this?

 

Cheers

Rich

[MarkDerby]

was that Oil wet or Fuel wet ?

 

how does it smell ?

[MarkDerby]

Hi Mark

From what I understand of your post do you think there are two separate issues here?

 

Are you saying the oil could be running down the plug threads and into the engine that way because of a leaking cam cover? The boroscope shows lots of oil coating cylinder 6 in particular. What's involved in diagnosing and fixing this if it is the cause.

 

Now you mention it I do recall Jeff saying he had selected the two turbos with the least chaft movement.

 

How much of a job is it to to check the turbo seals on the exhaust side? Is it a matter of unbolting the exhausts with the car up on a ramp to check that? It's still at the garage across the way so I guess that could be done next if it's going to prove where the problem lies.

 

What would be involved with swapping the turbos off my old engine on to the new one? Does the engine have to come out to do that?

 

Rich

 

 

 

ok with the amount of oil on the plug would say there is a leak from cam cover .. but im not ruling out that oil can get in to the cylinders from the tub ..

 

Normally when the engine is ingesting/burning oil from some place IE Valves/turbo .. its normally black soot carbon crap and may be a little wet on the pistons its self

like in your new pics ... of the plugs

 

Testing turbos and Seals .. there isnt one with out taking the hole unit apart Inspecting each part and then Running the turbo on a bench test rig

the only thing you can do is just see how much Lateral movement there is on the shaft ( Wobble ) ...

this can only be done with Exhaust down pipe off or the front intake pipe .. but all so at that point you would see if there was any Oil Leaks too

as it would be shown by Wet oil all over the exhaust outlet most of the time

 

 

Removing turbos Passenger side is quit easy to do with engine in place

Drivers side can be done but but2>3 times as long ...

 

at the point u may have a few problems with the engine IE Cam cover oil leaks

it may be easier to do with engine out but depends on who is doing the job

 

if it was your self .. Taking all the plenum off will gain loads of space to get the tubs out

plus u can sort the cam covers too

[taff]

Is there a mix of plugs in there one says s40 which im sure is a hks plug others say ngk .

[dicky96]

was that Oil wet or Fuel wet ?

 

how does it smell ?

 

It is oil wet - because it has sat like that since it was removed yesterday and is still wet, fuel would evaporate wouldn't it?

 

@taff

Re mix of plugs - it is possible as when I first had a problem with cylinder4 (plug was wet and black) I took a coil pack and plug off my old engine and put that it

[MarkDerby]

I it would

[dicky96]

OK Mark thanks for the advice

 

Silly question no doubt, I know the intercoolers feed the opposite side bank of cylinders but am I right in thinking that as the passenger side exhaust is the one chucking out all the smoke then it is the same side (passengers) turbo that would have the faulty exhaust seal? And that is the easiest one to remove to see if there is oil leaking from it?

 

As I see it now I have a few options:

 

1. Ask the local garage how much to get the turbo off. If it is faulty then I just may get out of this mess for now by fitting the tub off my old engine until I have the money to get them rebuilt properly. But I don't understand how that is gonna stop the oil getting into the cylinders as the intercooler pipes are all clean unless as you suggest, here are at least two faults with this engine. So far they have been really good to me and only charged me £40 for the investigative work undertaken.

 

2. Remove the plenum myself and then hopefully see what is going on and with advice and maybe some help from here and with a bit of luck on my side I may be able to fix the problems. I did get the plenum off the old engine and also this one has had EGR and various cooling pipes bypassed so it could be within my ability to do this. But bear in mind I am not a mechanic - so is this something I should be attemting myself? Don't try this at home folks lol.....

 

3. Get someone who really knows what they are doing to sort it out and pay them accordingly.

 

 

 

Just to really p*ss me off for once the weather is sunny here, perfect driving weather and my car is off the road!