i did and guess what it ate me alive, im sure had we both taken off at teh same time rather than him shooting offa nd me trying to catch up it may well of been slightly coler run, but damn they move! i do however think from that little experiment that a lightly modded 300 running around the 380 bhp range could keep up if not over take in a straight line, as although i never gained on him i also didnt disappear into the rear veiw mirror. quite surpruised how well an 21 year old auto kept up with a 50k supercar. he still had me though, obviously this was a lovely track session, and much more fun was had. :D

i did and guess what it ate me alive, im sure had we both taken off at teh same time rather than him shooting offa nd me trying to catch up it may well of been slightly coler run, but damn they move! i do however think from that little experiment that a lightly modded 300 running around the 380 bhp range could keep up if not over take in a straight line, as although i never gained on him i also didnt disappear into the rear veiw mirror. quite surpruised how well an 21 year old auto kept up with a 50k supercar. he still had me though, obviously this was a lovely track session, and much more fun was had. :D

 

I had a play with a golf r32. Thought i would beat it easy. To my suprise it was all over me. If he had change to overtake he would of easily. Found out it was running 450 bhp either turbo charged or super charged!!

They're real sleepers the Golf R32s. Insanity that a golf can be that fast!

 

You can quote BHP at me until you're blue in the face, I couldn't give a bleep, if you really want to dig through the facts, the torque, the power to weight, the "To the wheels" torque and bhp figures, plus things like gear change speed, cornering ability etc etc etc. not to even mention driver ability (Most people that actually own an R35 (I said most, not all) are people like my old MD, mid forties rich men, who can't actually drive) then fine, let's meet up with some top trumps cards and hash it out, otherwise, if you really don't know and have never driven one, or any of them, or better yet, any of them on a track, then shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh lol :D

 

Lol, I look forward to beating you on everything but weight (if we're talking numbers) :D

 

I think you missed the point of my post, sure a tuned R32/3/4 will probably be quicker than a stock R35, but that wasn't what I was saying. I was saying that a standard R34 would be slower (in a straight line, on a track, whatever) than a standard R35. That's based on every review, test and opinion I've ever read of either of them.

 

Using a tuned car in this comparison is irrelevant. It's like saying that a Vauxhall Victor is faster than a Bugatti Veyron, because of this

.

 

Besides, straight line speed does matter in a road car. I'm much more likely to utilise my car's straightline speed than it's maximum lateral grip on the road. Testing the latter simply isn't practical on the road (with a few exceptions).

I agree with your bottom line, although as you quite rightly say, there are a few exceptions, there's a few nice open country lanes where I currently live, plenty of grip, nothing but fields either side and big sweeping corners, with a couple of twisty ones.

 

Yeah I think we missed each others points, mostly because I wasn't clear enough. Reading back over what I said, I knew what I meant, no one else did. The RB26DETT engine was and may still be, one of, if not THE most tunable engine in the world, the one that went into the R34 specifically, has been described at times as having "No Limits", the R35 engine is nothing like, it's built in such a way that fettling is difficult, and VERY expensive. Bare in mind, that the R35 retailed new, near as damn it to what the R34 did new, so it's not that the R35 is a classier car, aimed at a different type of person or anything like that, it just isn't the same, period.

 

The whole thing of modifying your Japanese car, to go even faster and handle even better is dying out, whether it's because Renault bought Nissan or just because of a change in the times, the entire car industry one way or another is removing the owners ability to do things to it.

 

I personally think that the R35 won't hold it's value as well as the R34 did, for all the reasons already said by others, such as it's mass produced, sold world wide rather than JUST Japan, England (In VERY limited numbers and from ONE garage) and a handful here or there elsewhere by custom purchase, it's also plagued with problems, the guys on GTROC might not be open about that, but then if I paid £50K for a car I'm not sure I'd tell a forum full of people who were looking up to me as an R35 owner (It's how GTROC used to work, I assume it still does) that it was actually a faulty piece of shit lol, and on top of all that, it isn't fettl-able easily. You have to go to extremes to really do much more than replace the ECU and spark plugs, plus the more you tune it, the LESS reliable it seems to become, not more.

 

Call me an old fashioned purist if you like, but the GTR name should have ended with the R34, the RB26DETT and Nissan being a Japanese company, not a french one. This car in my opinion, is a nice enough car, I don't think I'd turn one down, but it isn't a GTR, nor is it a Skyline and it won't hold it's value or the legend the same way the GTR did. /EndPurismRant

 

:D

Ive just bought one to test the threory.

Fook me it fast!!!

One other thing, ALL of the models, R32 - R34 were "Officially rated" at 280 bhp because there was a "gentlemens agreement" in Japan that none of the manufacturers would make a road car higher than 280bhp, most of them however, were way over that. Do people really think the RB26DETT stayed at the same brake horsepower for more than 15 years? Come on. Lots of owners on dyno'ing their standard cars found they were much higher than 280bhp.

 

Granted but the facts don't lie. Evo timed the following:

 

r33 - 0-60 5.4secs, 0-100 14.3 secs

r34 - 0-60 4.7secs, 0-100 12.5 secs

r35 - 0-60 3.9secs, 0-100 8.4 secs

 

Comparing tuned cars, or "I was faster on the track" is irrelevant. The only valid comparison between the cars is stock for stock and with the same driver.

I agree with your bottom line, although as you quite rightly say, there are a few exceptions, there's a few nice open country lanes where I currently live, plenty of grip, nothing but fields either side and big sweeping corners, with a couple of twisty ones.

 

Yeah I think we missed each others points, mostly because I wasn't clear enough. Reading back over what I said, I knew what I meant, no one else did. The RB26DETT engine was and may still be, one of, if not THE most tunable engine in the world, the one that went into the R34 specifically, has been described at times as having "No Limits", the R35 engine is nothing like, it's built in such a way that fettling is difficult, and VERY expensive. Bare in mind, that the R35 retailed new, near as damn it to what the R34 did new, so it's not that the R35 is a classier car, aimed at a different type of person or anything like that, it just isn't the same, period.

 

The whole thing of modifying your Japanese car, to go even faster and handle even better is dying out, whether it's because Renault bought Nissan or just because of a change in the times, the entire car industry one way or another is removing the owners ability to do things to it.

 

I personally think that the R35 won't hold it's value as well as the R34 did, for all the reasons already said by others, such as it's mass produced, sold world wide rather than JUST Japan, England (In VERY limited numbers and from ONE garage) and a handful here or there elsewhere by custom purchase, it's also plagued with problems, the guys on GTROC might not be open about that, but then if I paid £50K for a car I'm not sure I'd tell a forum full of people who were looking up to me as an R35 owner (It's how GTROC used to work, I assume it still does) that it was actually a faulty piece of shit lol, and on top of all that, it isn't fettl-able easily. You have to go to extremes to really do much more than replace the ECU and spark plugs, plus the more you tune it, the LESS reliable it seems to become, not more.

 

Call me an old fashioned purist if you like, but the GTR name should have ended with the R34, the RB26DETT and Nissan being a Japanese company, not a french one. This car in my opinion, is a nice enough car, I don't think I'd turn one down, but it isn't a GTR, nor is it a Skyline and it won't hold it's value or the legend the same way the GTR did. /EndPurismRant

 

:D

 

 

Agreed! :thumbup:

 

For the record I'd take an R34 over the new GTR anyday:

Perfect - http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2346725.htm

The RB26DETT engine was and may still be, one of, if not THE most tunable engine in the world, the one that went into the R34 specifically, has been described at times as having "No Limits", the R35 engine is nothing like, it's built in such a way that fettling is difficult, and VERY expensive.

 

The whole thing of modifying your Japanese car, to go even faster and handle even better is dying out, whether it's because Renault bought Nissan or just because of a change in the times, the entire car industry one way or another is removing the owners ability to do things to it.

 

I personally think that the R35 won't hold it's value as well as the R34 did, for all the reasons already said by others, such as it's mass produced, sold world wide rather than JUST Japan, England (In VERY limited numbers and from ONE garage) and a handful here or there elsewhere by custom purchase,

 

..it's also plagued with problems, the guys on GTROC might not be open about that, but then if I paid £50K for a car I'm not sure I'd tell a forum full of people who were looking up to me as an R35 owner (It's how GTROC used to work, I assume it still does) that it was actually a faulty piece of shit lol, and on top of all that, it isn't fettl-able easily.

 

Call me an old fashioned purist if you like, but the GTR name should have ended with the R34, the RB26DETT and Nissan being a Japanese company, not a french one. This car in my opinion, is a nice enough car, I don't think I'd turn one down, but it isn't a GTR, nor is it a Skyline and it won't hold it's value or the legend the same way the GTR did. /EndPurismRant

 

:D

 

There's a couple of things that need to be raised here.

 

Firstly, I think you're falling into the trap that many enthusiasts do - of having slightly rose-tinted glasses. Now let me state for a fact, I too see the R34 as an icon, the pinnacle of a 20 year developement cycle of the Skyline series. I too have owned a skyline (hence my user ID) and I too hold that car in very high regard.. Perhaps a little too highly. I love the Skyline, the GTR red emblem and everything that the Skyline stood for - culturally and in the tuning world. But I think you're being a bit dismissive of the truth..

 

Why did Renault buy Nissan??

 

It wasn't because Nissan were out-stripping the Fenchies on the forecourt was it? The very reasons you stated that make the R34 exclusive, may make for good residuals and a rare site - but that doesn't make good strategy from a business point of view. OK, the current R35 may be a French-Jap lovechild, but the fact that it is selling well and filling the coffers means that we will get a R36, R37 etc etc. Would you rather Nissan stopped making high performance cars - just because YOU don't believe they live up to expectations?? I think its best they continue.

 

Plagued with problems?

 

I haven't heard this from anyone else. OK a few cars may have had problems - all cars do. But also remember the RB26DETT was essentially dead after the R34 - it couldn't meet the new emissions regulations. What would you rather have? An electric R35 or the VG38 engine? Its sad to see the RB gone, but its for good reason - the engine was low tech (which is probably why it was bomb proof), compared to modern engines. You can't hold it against the R35 that it hasn't got an RB - otherwise there's no point even trying to discuss the issue - its completely unreasonable.

 

Finally, as much as I like Skylines, you can't deny the R35's bloodline. The way it crafts brute force, technology and practicality is exactly the ethos of the Skyline. You could argue it should be more of a sleeper, but the R34 was no shrinking violet either. Whether you like it or not, the R35 is accepted by the vast majority of petrol heads as the spiritual successor to the R34 GTR and rightly so.

 

I would recommend you buy a R34 and spend some 'private time' with it and get it out of your system. Yes the old SKYLINES were incredible cars, but pound for pound, the new R35 punches well above its weight - more so than any previous car to wear the Red Emblem.

 

End of philosophical rant.. :tt2:

Edited May 24, 201114 yr by leo-r32gts

I don't know a lot about the R35 but I do know that I saw one kick a Veyron's arse twice in a straight line. Yes you can 'fettle' but it just costs a LOT of money :)

I should probably just bow out of this and let sleeping dogs blah blah blah, but I just can't, lol.

 

Renault bought Nissan because it made good business sense to do so, for the opposite reasons to what your suggesting. Car companies don't get bought because they're failing, they get bought because they're succeeding. Look at Fords portfolio, or GM, they own tonnes of Marques, not because they were bad, or failing, because they were good, and made money.

 

The R35 is plagued with problems, I know several people that own them and I know several people who work on them for a living, engine management and gearbox are the main two, but there are others too. The fact you don't see it on the GTROC forum is for exactly the reason I proposed in what you quoted, I suspect anyway.

 

No, the R35's blood line is entirely different, as I said at the end of my last post, it's not a bad car, no doubting that, but it wasn't brain childed, designed or built by the same people who built the GTRs. It's like the new mini, it's an entirely new set of designers, engineers and financiers, capitalising on a name. It isn't anywhere near as exclusive and doesn't even bare the Skyline name. That is to say nothing of it's abilities, but it doesn't share the blood line as you claim.

 

Yes I would rather the GTR had ended with the R34 as I said, Nissan/Renault should have named this car something else, but then marketing is marketing and it was the easiest way to market it, call it a GTR and hype it up for 3 - 4 years of delays. What was supposed to be the R35 GTR back in 2002 would have been designed by the same people as the R34, but this one is about the third revolution of the design and according to people in the know at Nissan, bares little to no resemblance to the original intended design. If it helps, I feel the same about the 350Z and the new skylines, apart from a vague shape resemblance for the Z, the rest of the cars design and build is nothing like the 300ZX and the same applies to the skylines, except they don't even resemble the skyline in shape.

 

At least the S15 Silvia looked somewhat like a silvia.

I'm sorry but the r35 is all the better for being seperated from the Skyline. The Skyline GTR r32/33/34 were just a high performance versions of hum-drum cars. Very effective version, but still no escaping the fact. In order to meet the goals of the engineers and produce a true comptetitor to the Porsche 997 Turbo and others it was far better to produce a new car from the ground up rather than compromising and adapting a existing car.

That's not even remotely what happened, nor were many of the skylines hum drum, even the 4 door saloon R32 and R33s were 2.0 straight 6 or above, with an RB engine, rear wheel drive and a sports pedigree. Go and research the origin of the skyline, it was a race car before it was a road car, before the R32 even existed. Plus, the R32 was created to compete in Touring car racing, so had to have a road going alternative, but then was kicked out of touring car, because it was too fast, then it went into V8 racing (Even though it didn't have a V8), and was kicked out, the skyline and the GTR in specific, pushed itself into a corner by being as good as it was and ended up only being able to race itself, in Japan, no other racing tournament would let the damn thing in!

 

As for the R35 and the current Skylines, well. When the RB engine died, the Skyline name was dropped, they weren't planning to make another. Before the RB engine died, they were planning an R35 Skyline, however Nissan would only make a GTR model, purely to continue the legacy. Later, when it was confirmed the RB engine could not continue to be made for emissions and "other" reasons, they dropped both names all together, a year or so later, they announced they would again make the GTR, a year or so after that, they announced the new Skyline range, there would be no GTR, however the GTR they had previously announced, would still be made, but without the Skyline name.

 

Adapting an existing car has never come into the GTRs life, it was always THE car that was then adapted DOWN to make the lesser cars like the GTS and GTS-Ts. GTRs were made for racing, period.

You're nearly as stubborn as me!

 

I agree / can accept some of the things you say - but I think one of your points is: that the car was made by different people and didn't share any physical parts with the outgoing model. Change is something we are wary of - progress can only be made if we make changes though. Even if you don't consider it to be actual progress.

 

Out of interest - how do you reckon the R35 would have differed if it had been designed by the R34 team? How radically different do you think it would have been. I know the R35 doesn't have the 'backbone' structure that the Tokyo show car did, but this happens a lot with concept cars - they are designed to cause a stir and hype. Factor in economics and eventually a lot of the design elements are toned down or withdrawn altogether. As far as I'm aware, the R35 was always going to have a V6??

 

What is this DNA that is missing?

even the 4 door saloon R32 and R33s were 2.0 straight 6 or above,

 

Wow as much as that :tt2:

 

Its a far better marketing strategy to seperate out the cars. For the GTR to be seen as a viable alternative to the Supercars its compared with, you can't have a base model lurking in the background.

They're real sleepers the Golf R32s. Insanity that a golf can be that fast!

 

really my mate has a mk4 one he raced my mates hybrid sicrocco and lost, i raced teh sicrocco and won.

i havent read any of the statistic's or or long winded fancy reply's in this thread but i havent tried to race a GTR (r35), i was next to a grey one at the light's the other week, i was in the M3 and i thought i aint even go and show myself up, if i had a zed i wouldnt bother either

 

its a fookin awesome car and im very jelous of anyone who own's one

ah yeh as i said it murdered me, not as badly as i thought though. and he was definatly gunning it. i dont recon a 400ish bhp zedw ould beat it but i think it was upset a brand new r35 owner with how it doesnt just disappear. im pretty impressed how a 20 year old auto performed in comparision in fairness and its a true statement for how good these cars are, they really have stood the test of time. i really dont think the same will be true of the 350.

ah yeh as i said it murdered me, not as badly as i thought though. and he was definatly gunning it. i dont recon a 400ish bhp zedw ould beat it but i think it was upset a brand new r35 owner with how it doesnt just disappear. im pretty impressed how a 20 year old auto performed in comparision in fairness and its a true statement for how good these cars are, they really have stood the test of time. i really dont think the same will be true of the 350.

 

At last! something we can agree on!

so do we agree the gtr is faster than thr r34 then? lol

so do we agree the gtr is faster than thr r34 then? lol

 

no, lol :D

Leo - Shape, breeding, blah blah blah, it just isn't a Skyline or a GTR.

 

PhilP - For the last time, the GTR WAS the base model, everything else was a derivative.

 

Whoever it was (lol) - A scirocco hybrid beat an R32 Golf? Or it beat some crappy 1.6/1.8 Gold badged as an R32? Because the scirocco is a crap car, and the Golf R32 is a 3.2 litre V6 with 4WD that weighs about the same as the scirocco does!?!?!? I'd love to see a vid of that.

PhilP - For the last time, the GTR WAS the base model, everything else was a derivative.

 

Not so, the GT-R was to the Skyline what the RS4 is the Audi A4. By no means the base model.

 

With the current generation Skyline (aka Infiniti G37) Nissan decided to separate the GT-R into it's own line, hence how we now have the R35, which is no longer called a Skyline.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Skyline

are you guys still going?

Not so, the GT-R was to the Skyline what the RS4 is the Audi A4. By no means the base model.

 

With the current generation Skyline (aka Infiniti G37) Nissan decided to separate the GT-R into it's own line, hence how we now have the R35, which is no longer called a Skyline.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Skyline

 

who cares...... its an amazing car whatever the hell you want to call it... :tt2:

Not so, the GT-R was to the Skyline what the RS4 is the Audi A4. By no means the base model.

 

With the current generation Skyline (aka Infiniti G37) Nissan decided to separate the GT-R into it's own line, hence how we now have the R35, which is no longer called a Skyline.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Skyline

 

I love it when people cite wikipedia as absolute confirmation of what they've said. Just so you know, the wikipedia page doesn't even mention the original racing car, created purely for racing, which bore the skyline name, it's where the car came from, there wasn't a road car before that.

 

Just for clarity, since we're into citing wikipedia and getting pedantic, my comment about the GTR being the base model, was only with regard to the R32 onwards. As I said, the GTR was created first, to compete on the track, ALL of the other R32 Skylines were derivatives of the GTR, this also applied to the R33 and R34 chassis Skylines, GTR first, other models later. If it was the other way around, then the 2.6litre straight six twin turbo model was created for a 4 door family saloon? Don't think so.