Need some help with this one!! as some of you may have read my "project" ZX made 502 FWHP / 440 RWHP very recently, however it made this power on relatively low boost of just 1 bar... the car has the mechanics to reach the magical 500 RWHP but is maxing out on the AFM side...

 

The car has a Super AFC installed, it is the older type black unit with the manual dials... so my question is this... if I install a Doolz type set-up with a dummy AFM on one side will the current set-up wuth SAFC be able to adjust the fuelling to the correct levels without actually messing around with the ECU?

 

Anyhelp on this much appreciated, Thx Lee

You will need the ecu remapped, otherwise the engine will be receiving twice as much air than the ecu thinks

You will need the ecu remapped, otherwise the engine will be receiving twice as much air than the ecu thinks

Thanks for clearing that help, now who can remap/chip the ecu that is in the car for this set-up?

Give John Dixon a shout, he'll be able to map it for you.

Thanks!!, will be very interesting to see what results the car achieves after the new set-up and re-map!!

no, the super-afc can compensate for you, it gives you the option to double the afm amount.

no, the super-afc can compensate for you, it gives you the option to double the afm amount.

That sounds promising, so just effectively I need to have the car re-tuned on the dyno with the new set-up?

If I remember correctly, the Doolz unit has a factor of 70%. I can't remember if it reads 70% of the air or 70% less air. If you go to a twin intake, you will require an idle stabalisation pipe.

if you have the JWT twin pipes you'll need a idle stabalisation pipe or twin MAF's as one side will reade more than the other at idle (due to the IACV).

With the doolz, the MAF is after the air is balanced from the engine side, so will near as dammit be reading 50% of the all the time ie no need for the extra idle pipe.

 

Personally, I have used the JWT with twin AFM's and it works a treat.

With the doolz, the MAF is after the air is balanced from the engine side, so will near as dammit be reading 50% of the all the time ie no need for the extra idle pipe.

I thought the Doolz pipework although moulded/welded together kept the "two chambers" separate?

I thought the Doolz pipework although moulded/welded together kept the "two chambers" separate?

 

no, would defeat the object of it they did!

no, would defeat the object of it they did!

 

I thought with the doolz intake, it acted as two seperate intakes....one intake for each bank and thats what makes the need for the second MAF.

or am i just talking pish? :nelson:

or am i just talking pish? :nelson:

yup:)

okey, i'll just get my coat and go!!!!

I'm gonna have a go at making my own dual set-up with 135 degree Samco hoses straight off the intake pipes as am so impatient lol!!, anyone know the exact bore size off the metal intake pipes where the stock rubber AFM holder is? Thx Lee

I'm gonna have a go at making my own dual set-up with 135 degree Samco hoses straight off the intake pipes as am so impatient lol!!, anyone know the exact bore size off the metal intake pipes where the stock rubber AFM holder is? Thx Lee

 

in which case you'll need a second AFM or the idle hose fix

in which case you'll need a second AFM or the idle hose fix

Yeah and the idle hose seems like much less work than wiring in the 2nd AFM etc, etc.. will probably upgrade later to the Doolz but want a quick install then back on the Dyno:)

Yeah and the idle hose seems like much less work than wiring in the 2nd AFM etc, etc.. will probably upgrade later to the Doolz but want a quick install then back on the Dyno:)

 

Your getting a bit muddled with all this mate :) The doolz is not an upgrade compared to the Twin JWT version intakes. Doolz uses the readings from just the 1 MAF, it uses a second dummy one simply to balance the tube length of both sides, it will not allow the MAF to produce a stronger signal to the ECU beyond the MAF's limits. It can also in some cases be problematic in the UK due to our typical british weather as it sits so low down.

The JWT Twin cone kit splits the MAF's signal so as to produce stronger a stronger signal to the ECU beyond the MAF's limits, hence more power.

Where you mention a couple of samco bends, not quite that easy either, the top end pipe where it would connect is 63mm diamter and the MAF end 78mm diameter, at 134 deg it would be a special build silicone and you could wait 2 months for it being a reducer, however it's worth trying.....

Easiest solution is in fact the Q45 that you asked about before, this will flow 20% more than a Z32 MAF and requires a simple 90-78mm reducer and wired in, your SAFC gadget would compensate for he Q45, however JD mapping it would be better.

Hope that helps

smithy

Easiest solution is in fact the Q45 that you asked about before, this will flow 20% more than a Z32 MAF and requires a simple 90-78mm reducer and wired in, your SAFC gadget would compensate for he Q45, however JD mapping it would be better.

Hope that helps

smithy

Thx Smithy, but I have found no evidence that the Q45 is actually better than a Z32, did quite a bit of browsingon the Skyline forum as to which is the better upgrade fro them ie Z32 or Q45 and there were quite a few tests done and the results were predominantly in favour of the Z32... so Z32 owners upgrading to a Q45 is simply not worth the hassle....

 

As far as the whole twin set-up I do understand it, (I hope!!), what i'm looking for something I can do relatively simply, so if I run a dual set-up with the "live" MAF on one bank and a dummy MAF on the other the ECU will only read half the amount of air that the engine is actually seeing, hence half the fuel, that is where the SAFC comes in to compensate for this, which will be used to effectively double the fuelling throughout the rev range...

Thx Smithy, but I have found no evidence that the Q45 is actually better than a Z32, did quite a bit of browsingon the Skyline forum as to which is the better upgrade fro them ie Z32 or Q45 and there were quite a few tests done and the results were predominantly in favour of the Z32... so Z32 owners upgrading to a Q45 is simply not worth the hassle....

 

As far as the whole twin set-up I do understand it, (I hope!!), what i'm looking for something I can do relatively simply, so if I run a dual set-up with the "live" MAF on one bank and a dummy MAF on the other the ECU will only read half the amount of air that the engine is actually seeing, hence half the fuel, that is where the SAFC comes in to compensate for this, which will be used to effectively double the fuelling throughout the rev range...

 

The whole point of my post originally mate was cos you stated that you would UPGRADE to the Doolz, i was pointing out that was not an upgrade at all.

If you really want to research the Q45 then go on the SXOC forum where it is wildly used, Skylines seldom do and the reason why:-

The Skyline single turbo version uses similar MAF to the S12,S14,S15 and later scooby, they upgrade generally to the Z32 simply becuase the engines are not really capable of more, if they are, it is then an engine swap, in the case of the skyline, the GTR version. The GTR's themselves (twinturbo's) tend to use 2 MAF's, again they would be hard pressed to outflow 2 of them together, should they think they have over 800bhp then they do engine management.

There are 2 things that determine a MAF#s flow, the volumetric internal size an dthe plaacement in the plumbing system ( how close to the turbo) The skyline GTR with 2 of them and right next to the turbo, would never have a need to go Q45 size.

The Q45 will flow in the region of the very high 500's can be plumbed in in 10 mins on a Zed and then just requires the mapping to suit.

At the end of the day, you can only do what you think mate, so best of luck.

cheers

smithy

.. you would UPGRADE to the Doolz, i was pointing out that was not an upgrade at all.

 

they are an upgrade, and a viable alternative to the JWT twin pop setup.

Just correcting in case anyone else is reading this later on.

The Q45 (or VH45) AFM flows around an extra 20% over the Z32 AFM

The twin setup will halve the amount of fuel reaching the pots but if you fit 720cc injectors you are back to square one again.

 

A standard computer can then be used for fault diagnoses if you ever needed to - as long as you limit the boost.

The Q45 (or VH45) AFM flows around an extra 20% over the Z32 AFM

Yeah that's what some results showed, although some other tests put the Z32 ahead.... eitherway the Q45 upgrade isn't really worthwhile...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy

.. you would UPGRADE to the Doolz, i was pointing out that was not an upgrade at all.

- As per Jaffa the Doolz is an upgrade!! think you got that one wrong there ;)

Yeah that's what some results showed, although some other tests put the Z32 ahead.... eitherway the Q45 upgrade isn't really worthwhile...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy

.. you would UPGRADE to the Doolz, i was pointing out that was not an upgrade at all.

- As per Jaffa the Doolz is an upgrade!! think you got that one wrong there ;)

 

:headvswal rest assured if your MAF is maxed out, which in your case i believe it is, the doolz is NOT an upgrade AND it further moves the MAF away from where it presently was which actually weakens the signal! hence the power claims not being great as they should.

End of the day it's your money and time, the Q45 is the easiest and quickest route to go and WILL improve the flow and show you how much the Zed your working on has. Man in the past 10 years i've built 100's of induction kits for literaly every japanese performance car on the market using every type of MAF going..

smithy

they are an upgrade, and a viable alternative to the JWT twin pop setup.

Just correcting in case anyone else is reading this later on.

 

Compared to any single cone kit on the market yes your right, however that is not what i was saying bud. Importance thinks that the Doolz would be an upgrade to a JWT hard wired set up, in that case and it's te one being discussed, it is NOT an upgrade, in fact IMO it would produce less by moving the MAF further down.

 

"Yeah and the idle hose seems like much less work than wiring in the 2nd AFM etc, etc.. will probably upgrade later to the Doolz but want a quick install then back on the Dyno"

 

Just to re-correct for anyone later on :p

For a quick install, make yer own JWT version or even MAF like grahame goode does.

smithy