ok so ive had the tt for three weeks now and tonite was her first nite out in the wet. shes an auto and this is wat happend, im driving towards st albs on the m25 just pulling out into the fast lane (im in the middle lane behind some idiot doing 60 up the hill to the junction) any way a gently put my foot down to speed up now im in the fast lane and not mutch happens so i press i bitt more then f..king hell the auto box kicks down to 2nd gear and im in boost the back end goes towards the central reservation and i flick on some opposite lock . my heart re-starts my girlfriend screams . i then pull back into the slow lane thinking wow that was odd , so is this normall ??????? :eek: :eek:

I hate to say this but my vRS Octy would run rings around a Zed in the wet and damp. I'm still unsure of the slight over-steer efect of the HICAS system - and the RWD of the Zed is not as re-assuring as the FrontWD of the Skud.

 

Still, if Michael Schummi drove it he'd say 'what problem do you mean in the wet?'

 

Something to aim for then??

 

 

in the wet its more hairy for certain, in the dry the rwd feedback of it is superb, the hicas is a wierd feeling and difficult to factor into your cornering psyche but once you trust it it can be a bit of fun, I am using falken 452's all round , the 265's on the rear help as well, I really have had to push on some to find the edge of the control envelope on this thing, even so i will be fitting kyb and eibach suspension set up and going to a solid subframe set on the rear.

"with great power comes a great responsability", :D

 

With great cars comes great fun and there you have the full story. :D

 

Be careful out there.

A few months ago just leaving a roundabout and slipy slidy.

 

Off the throttle and turn into it and managed to catch it.

 

Mate in the passanger seat s--t himself and said "wow that was some great driving."

 

Thing is I always wait till I am pointing in a staraight line before giving heavy with the right foot, the problem tis day was that it was chucking it down and I think I was just aqua planning with the wide rears. Got my heart beating a bit faster anyway.

 

Best bet I think is to get signed up to the drifting day that is being organised. We can all learn how to do it then.

 

Darrell

Make sure you have very good tyres on the car.

 

I have an Auto TT and with Goodyear GSD3 or Dunlop SP 9000 tyres all round (255/40/17 rear & 235/45/17 front) I have had no trouble with the back end coming unstuck in the wet, even booting it to overtake on a fast A-road.

 

Poor tyres turn the ZX into a death trap IMO - when I bought the car, it had new Avons on it and it slid everywhere. Getting shot of them was the best improvement I have done on my ZX to date!

 

You do have to treat powerful, torquey RWD cars with respect in the wet, as everyone has warned. Watch that throttle use when the front wheels are not pointing straight ahead!!

 

Richard :smw:

thanks mate i have had a few other powerfull rear wheel drive cars before . including a cobra replica i built , so im not new to this fact :nelson: just caught me out :(

You're right, the main reason you lost control is that it kicked down a gear and would have provided a huge amount of torque to the rear wheels.

 

However, there could be other factors that increased the effect.

 

A few people on here know I have lost the back end a couple of times (about this time last year), I later found out that I had really dodgy HICAS ball joints which had a couple of degrees of play in them. This exasberated (sp?) my poor driving and caused it to kick out without any warning.

 

When you are confident that your suspension and tyres are good you will find that the Zed gives a good deal of feedback and it can be quite easy to

bring back under control.

 

As mentioned above, when it does step out, ease off the throttle and give it a touch of opposite lock. If you give it too much opposite lock you will find yourself in the same position as FungalSi, fishtailing one way then the other. :headvswal

 

I am still learning a lot but the only way to get a feel for it is to get out there and lose the back end once in a while! :D

 

HTH...

this is a very very good site for those who cant drive in the wet without going backwards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/ :D

this is a very very good site for those who cant drive in the wet without going backwards

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/ukweather/ :D

 

PMSL.

 

Heres another one..........Leave the 300zx at home.com

 

 

:x: :D

TAKEN FROM PISTON HEADS , POSTED BY A POLICE INSTRUCTOR

 

 

We all get things wrong sometimes. It's the nature of being a human being - no-one is perfect (except Mrs Local of course, but I wouldn't dare say otherwise, would I?), and we're all disposed to getting things wrong once in a while. I've mentioned before that a good driver learns from and remembers prior mistakes, without dwelling on them, and uses them in their future driving plans as what not to do in similar circumstances.

 

There are occasions, however, when you can get things wrong, and your actions in trying to correct that mistake can either save the situation, or bugger things up even more than you already have. I'm talking, of course, about skidding.

 

Now, there's some very good advice in Roadcraft, and I've taught and stood by it's principles for a long time now, but there's one area where I feel that Roadcraft is fundamentally lacking (apart from the overtaking position, and I think we've argued that one to death now), and that's the books teachings on certain aspects of skid control.

 

It's not that the book is wrong, exactly, it's just that it's teachings on skid correction are just too basic for what is supposedly an advanced drivers manual (bible, even). Of course, most people don't get the benefit of some skid training (although a damn site more, and - dare I say - all new drivers should), and so you could argue that any skid training is advanced, in that it's beyond what an ordinary driver would get, but for me, some of the techniques it recommends are clumsy, basic, and in one case actually dangerous if you're travelling at high speed.

 

*Reg looks up to a room of silence - you could hear a pin drop. A Police instructor who doesn't agree with Roadcraft? What the chuff is going on?*

 

Lets start with some stuff that I do agree with, just so you know I haven't gone completely hatstand.

 

Roadcraft's description of skids, how they occurr and it's advice that the best option with skidding is to avoid getting into skids in the first place is all spot on, and not worth repeating here.

 

Where it is lacking, however, is in it's description of how to control certain kinds of skids - specifically situations where a driver is experiencing oversteer and understeer.

 

Now, there are two main errors that a driver makes which induce oversteer and understeer. One is accelerating too harshly when cornering, with which Roadcraft deals, shall we say, adequately. The other one is by cornering at excessive speed, which is where I feel the book's advice is flawed.

 

Let's start with oversteer, and for my example, I want you to imagine that you're driving a rear-wheel drive car without traction control. *Reg sees the TVR drivers ears pricking up*

 

The advice in roadcraft if you've started to oversteer, is to first of all release the accelerator or declutch and release the accelerator. Now, if your oversteer is being caused by excessive bootage of the right pedal, then this advice is entirely correct - releasing the accelerator or pressing th clutch and lifting off will almost immediately stop the rear wheels from spinning, regain you some road grip, and providing you've counter-steered correctly, then you should have yourself back on the straight and narrow in next to no time.

 

But what if your oversteer is caused by travelling excessively fast for the corner? Let's start by having a look at what's happening to the car as it starts to break traction. As the car travels round the corner, it's weight is moving over the wheels which are on the outside of the corner. The more speed you carry into (or build up during) the corner, then the more weight is transferred onto the outer wheels. At the same time, the tyres on those outer wheels are trying to counter the cars natural tendency to travel straight on, by holding lateral (sideways) grip with the road surface. Now, as I've mentioned before, there's only a certain amount of grip available to the tyres, and by cornering harder, you're getting less grip from the inside wheels (because the weight transfer to the outside ones means there's far less weight pressing the inside wheels down), and you're demanding more grip from those outside tyres.

 

*And breathe*

 

The sum total of all that is that when the speed becomes too much for the corner, the car will start to slide. The natural tendency of the majority of rear-wheel drive cars is for the rear to start sliding first, so that the car starts to turn in towards the inside of the corner more than the driver wants it to, hence it's oversteering.

 

And what is Roadcraft's advice in this situation? The same as before - release the accelerator, or declutch and release the accelerator.

 

Let's think about that for a minute shall we? In a situation where the rear-end of a car is losing grip, Roadcraft is advising us to perform an action which will transfer weight towards the front of the car, and more importantly away from the rear of the car, thus removing grip from the rear at exactly the time when you want more grip, rather than less.

 

Not the best advice in my opinion.

 

So what should you do then Reg, you smartarse?

 

Don't lift off for starters - not completely anyway. The idea is for you to correct the skid using the steering and throttle by not adding any more speed, and by counter-steering.

 

When I say "by not adding any more speed", think about whet you do when you're in a 40MPH speed limit area - you accelerate up to your chosen speed, and when you've reached it, you relax the pressure on the accelerator slightly so that the car remains at that speed. Note the wording - you relax the pressure on the accelerator - you don't release it. If you released it, the car would start to slow down, whereas you just want it to stay at that speed, so you relax your pressure, but you definitely keep some pressure on the accelerator.

 

That's what you should do - relax the pressure on the accelerator just slightly, so that the car isn't gaining any more speed - it's what I'd describe as a slight feathering back on the throttle. Certainly not a release of the throttle.

 

At the same time, you should steer in the direction you want to go.

 

The steering part isn't any more complicated than that. I could harp on for ages about steering in the direction of the skid, counter-steering and opposite lock, but all you need to know is that you should steer in the direction you want to go.

 

You should, of course, be careful not to steer too far in the direction you want to go, as this could induce a secondary skid, and these are, on the whole, much worse than the primary skid, and your trousers probably couldn't cope with the additional stress.

 

So steer just enough in the direction you want to go, and no less.

 

What about understeer then Reg? Some of us drive Astra VXRs and Golf GTIs - what about us.

 

Patience my children.

 

If you're understeering due to excessive acceleration, then, again, Roadcraft's advice is sound. Release the accelerator, or declutch and release the accelerator, take a little steering off, and you should be all smiles again almost instantly.

 

But again, Roadcraft is lacking somewhat when it comes to understeer due to excessive speed. Many front-wheel drive cars will react to a lift on the throttle in a similar (although not identical) way to a rear-wheel drive car. They will pitch into oversteer as a reaction to the transfer forward of the cars weight which is associated with a lift on the throttle. This FWD oversteer can be even more difficult to catch than in a RWD car, and so, unless you're playing on a circuit or skidpan, should be avoided at all costs.

 

So, you've carried too much speed into a corner, the car is running wide and not responding to extra lock, and you're suddenly becoming very concerned about an imminent expensive alloy wheel / kerbstone interface - what do you do?

 

As explained earlier, don't lift off the throttle completely, but feather back on it slightly. In this case you do want to lose a little speed, so that feathering back should be a little more than you would in the oversteering TVR. The reason you want to lose speed is because this will transfer some weight back onto the front wheels, regain you some front-end grip, and, together with steering towards where you want to go, will have you pointing back in the right direction presently.

 

I'd better just add that practising this stuff on the road isn't to be advised. You could find a quiet roundabout somewhere and have a go, but there's always the possibility that something could go badly wrong and you may well end up with a dented car, a dented ego, a dented driving licence, a dented wallet and.... I'm sure you get the picture.

 

My advice if you want to have a go at this stuff is this - pay out a few quid and have a half-day at a skid school. It'll be in someone else's car, so you're car won't get dented, you'll have someone who really knows what they're doing sat next to you, so your ego will remain intact, it'll be off-road, so your licence is safe and although the cost might dent your wallet a bit, the pay-off may well come back and save you a fortune at some time in the future.

 

Go on - you know it makes sense.

That is an excellent post. All new zed owners should HAVE to read this.

 

I had to learn this stuff for myself, the hard way!

 

D'oh...

 

I am still learning a lot but the only way to get a feel for it is to get out there and lose the back end once in a while! :D

 

HTH...

 

I know this is a serious thread but I couldn't resist, something you wanna share Mike?

 

 

Great advice ppl, never had a problem myself

ok so ive had the tt for three weeks now and tonite was her first nite out in the wet. shes an auto and this is wat happend, im driving towards st albs on the m25 just pulling out into the fast lane (im in the middle lane behind some idiot doing 60 up the hill to the junction) any way a gently put my foot down to speed up now im in the fast lane and not mutch happens so i press i bitt more then f..king hell the auto box kicks down to 2nd gear and im in boost the back end goes towards the central reservation and i flick on some opposite lock . my heart re-starts my girlfriend screams . i then pull back into the slow lane thinking wow that was odd , so is this normall ??????? :eek: :eek:

 

Yep.

shouldn't you use hold on auto boxes?

Another note to self: 'Only attend a Zed meet on a dry day - could be carnage if it rains'

Another note to self: 'Only attend a Zed meet on a dry day - could be carnage if it rains'

 

no local meets for you then lol

no local meets for you then lol

 

Ouch!!

just come of the throttle it will grip. dunno wot hicas is like though?

my mates used to hop and skip over grates. getting rid of it when i get mine been told you can buy locking bars?

i know i leant the hard way in the wet...

 

after one week of ownership of my swb, i spun it going onto a motorway narowly missing a ford focus and going backwards into the central reservation!!! only surface damage but still set me back £300.00 to fix...

 

its not worth driving hard in the wet, take it easy and nothing can go wrong...

The rain is fun if you know how to control it.

ive made a habit of drifting round roundabouts just cant help myself.. and drifting up slip roads,

was pulled over the other day for doing it but they let me off, think they felt sorry for me as 3 more points and it bye bye driving licence.

The rain is fun if you know how to control it.

ive made a habit of drifting round roundabouts just cant help myself.. and drifting up slip roads,

was pulled over the other day for doing it but they let me off, think they felt sorry for me as 3 more points and it bye bye driving licence.

 

 

ive never understood why people do it, i really do not understand why going sideways is so fantastic, i bloody hate it lol.

i bloody hate it lol.

 

 

thats on cos you end up with another crack somewhere :tongue: :rofl:

i dont get chance lol i never go over 30mph in the wet. Funny thing is since ive left the bumper all smashed up, not hit anything once!! no doubt if i get it sorted i will be straight into nother kerb lol

i dont get chance lol i never go over 30mph in the wet. Funny thing is since ive left the bumper all smashed up, not hit anything once!! no doubt if i get it sorted i will be straight into nother kerb lol

 

 

yeah, your probably right there saz. its sods law.