To me as civil liberties "improve" and excuses are given for every wrong 'un in the world and at home, it seems that crime is increasing and in particular violent crime.

 

Is it me becoming cynical or realistic?

To me as civil liberties "improve" and excuses are given for every wrong 'un in the world and at home, it seems that crime is increasing and in particular violent crime.

 

Is it me becoming cynical or realistic?

100% true Mark :(

personally i think a lot of these bad kids simply dont know how to relate to or respect adults....in part it seems a lot of kids today dont get to join clubs (footy scouts athletics) or have saturday / part time jobs...this maybe as a result of broken families...or money issues...or having to look after younger siblings etc while parents are out at work...so they dont get used to adults and being in their company of adults consequently have little care or respect for those outside of their immediate family etc

 

eg if you have an older bloke telling you the rules of a game etc like football / rugby...most youngsters can soon relate to the rules not being their to curtail your fun but actually to enhance the experience....i also think there are too many women in primary schooling who cant cope with boistrious boys (would prefer them to be nice quite girls) and are for every telling the boys off just for being boys....do that a 100 times a week and any young lad gets to feel a little jaded...i know one school in brighton was actively stopping boys smashing cars together or playing war/soldiers in the playground...too noisy/violent....result boys felt they were bad just for being boys...right i'm off...phones ringing...probably the school...:D

I dont know where it has gone wrong. I am a relative young'un at 26 and left school in 2001 i also have a sister who is 5 years younger and neither me or her or anyone she knew behaved like kids do today. Went to a normal comp, maybe not a tough inner city one but there were still deprived areas in the catchment. So whatever it is it has almost happened over night. It cant be put down to bad school dinners (f off jamie oliver), lack of afterschool activeness, junk food, violent cartoons, computer games. The only major new things that have become really popular and widespread since i was at school are mobile phones, high speed internet, ipods, online gaming and freeview/sky digital tv. So if it is not a conglomeration of these causing it by giving kids more freedom and access to things their parents wouldnt want them to see it can only be down to the influence of the labour government and law changes they have brought in.

saying it is the parents fault is the easy way out but parents are parents and havent changed the way they parent but not seem to not be able to control their kids anymore.

last night on the train platform I heard a 8-10 year old boy call his mother a fat whore, she said dont you call me that, he then told her to fook off.

 

make of that what you will, but I have seen and heard young kids disrespecting their parents and other adults like that for a while now.

 

How do we stand a chance if the parents cant parent.

no discipline, at home at school or dished out by the long arm of the law.

 

If a child is caught being naughty by the cops, a big clip round the ear hole would suffice and a bigger kicking by the parents when pc plod took them home. Oh no not in this country though, the naughty kids get treated to days at theme parks for being good!

 

Too many do gooders, Bring back discipline, bring back the cane, i remember getting some right smacks when i was a child, it never harmed me and i never did the same thing twice.

 

Infact bring back national service and quickly.

I'd have to agree with that, my dad disciplined me and my brother and sisters when we were young (still goes on at me now!) and at the time it seems crap and unfair but i really respect him for it now. I also have a little brother (9yo) and although he has been in the middle of their divorce (still is really) he is great as he has positive role models and a dad who is strict with him for his own good. My mum on the other hand tries to buy his affections and she gets nothing but disrespect in return.

 

I think it just shows that proper discipline works, say what you will but me and my sisters are proof of that, and my brother is proving it everyday he gets older.

no discipline, at home at school or dished out by the long arm of the law.

 

If a child is caught being naughty by the cops, a big clip round the ear hole would suffice and a bigger kicking by the parents when pc plod took them home. Oh no not in this country though, the naughty kids get treated to days at theme parks for being good!

 

Too many do gooders, Bring back discipline, bring back the cane, i remember getting some right smacks when i was a child, it never harmed me and i never did the same thing twice.

 

Infact bring back national service and quickly.

Yep, what she said! :p

Just think, in 20 yrs time, some of these muppets could be running

the country, quite a frightening thought!

True, but the answer is not to halt the advance of civil liberties.

Civil liberties are good for all of us, and should be encouraged.

But those who abuse the liberty they are given in this (comparitively) liberal country should be punished more harshly.

This could be made possible by not punishing victimless crime, and by punishing violent crime much more heavily.

 

Bringing back national service? I hope you are not suggesting that all young people should be forced into national service? Those lads who are tearaways, and need that kind of structure, fine. But why should one such as i, who has never harmed another person, or transgressed any law which harms another person, be forced into something which is fundamentally against my beliefs?

National service makes young adults better people? I think you should try testing the moral stance of young Israelis, and see how their general moral stance appeals to you.

Well if the bloody schools and the parents arent instilling the discipline and the do gooders are working their wicked ways, damn right yes, national service should be reinstated, and more so the scrounging idle wasters should be forced into employment aswell.

 

Im sick of funding the dregs of society, the very people that commit crimes against the hard working, honourable, members of society.

 

Its only because they have been allowed to get away with living on this gravy train for so long that they are refusing to go out and earn a living, its because of all this human rights *****x and lack of respect and discipline that crime has got to the point where it really does pay and its easier to live of others than actually have some self respect and earn their own way.

True, but the answer is not to halt the advance of civil liberties.

Civil liberties are good for all of us, and should be encouraged.

But those who abuse the liberty they are given in this (comparitively) liberal country should be punished more harshly.

This could be made possible by not punishing victimless crime, and by punishing violent crime much more heavily.

 

Bringing back national service? I hope you are not suggesting that all young people should be forced into national service? Those lads who are tearaways, and need that kind of structure, fine. But why should one such as i, who has never harmed another person, or transgressed any law which harms another person, be forced into something which is fundamentally against my beliefs?

National service makes young adults better people? I think you should try testing the moral stance of young Israelis, and see how their general moral stance appeals to you.

 

 

I think you are spot on. everyone is so quick to jump on the national service / corporal punishment bandwagon but that is the easy answer and will it actually work?? What i was saying is that my mini generation that is between that of my parents generation who got the cane and the generation where it appears that the apple has gone rotten.

Apart from the inevitable evil renegades like the kids that killed little James Bulger and maybe even stretched as far as the Damillola Taylor killers i think my generation has been ok without causing the chaos of todays young and we didnt have the cane.

There must be another reason why the younger generation have suddenly exploded into this vehmently vicious and uncontrollable force.

 

I would not have been at all happy at having to do national service if it delayed my education or my career, caused me to mix with unruley elements and forced me to do something against my believes for no real need (are we ever going to be in situation we were have to conscript?).

Of course those wanting to pursue their education would be allowed to do that, im talking about the idiots that drop out of school and live off the state, they should be forced to get a job (if it means picking up dog shit, tough shit), those that flount it should be put in the army to learn a little self worth, they will soon buck up their ideas and integrate into society and probably come out better people

I will tell you the reasons because as far as I am concerned they are obvious.

 

1/. The TV. Full of violence and disrespect. Even soaps.

2/. DVD's. In the 70's & 80's if you wasnt 18. You rarley saw anyone shaggin or getting killed/splatered on the screen.

3/. The internet. Chat rooms and web sites promoting violence and hatered.

4/. The law. Back then if your child was to call you a fat tw@ they would have got a slap? Niow its against the law to smack your kids for being naughty.

5/. Attitudes. Which more or less wraps the previous 4 into one. Youngsters are not afraid of getting arrested or disciplined anymore. Not like the kids of my era were.

 

Add to the list if you can, but all in all thats why I think the children of today are like they are? AND! its getting worst every week.

 

The thing is though. I can remember when I was a child grown ups saying things like "they should bring back the birch" and "they need a fookin good hiding" So its happening all the time and the reason most of us notice so much is because we are getting old now. :)

The thing is though. I can remember when I was a child grown ups saying things like "they should bring back the birch" and "they need a fookin good hiding" So its happening all the time and the reason most of us notice so much is because we are getting old now. :)

 

lol

Civil liberties / human rights are a mark of a decent society. The Daily Mail may terrorise its readers, claiming the country is overrun by 'darkies with guns' but it's just not true.

 

Yes, our papers highlight the odd case where civil rights/human rights cause apparent problems or injustices but they tend to be isolated and in the main they're good things.

 

Would you want to live under Sharia law? Have the death penalty and cut people's hands of if they stole? Imprisonment without trial etc?

 

I agree with Vinni though that TV / films / computer games and the breakdown of the family unit are responsible for some of the problems facing today's society.

im giong against the grain, maybe the threat of hands being chopped off for stealing my zed, might act as a deterent. Laws are useless without penalties.

 

Get rid of the welfare state imho, sod the scrounging fools.

I feel sorry for the older folk that fought in the war risking their lives to give these scum bags the freedom they have today, what a complete waste of time they must be thinking? And what respect do they get from them, fook all, except being mugged or robbed to fuel their drug habbits. I think there should be some sort of service in the army for offenders, do 'em bloody good, a bit of discipline. You never know some might even like it and make a career out of it. Trouble is its the bloody do-gooders who it dosnt effect that run this country, and they are the ones that have made society what it is today, Oh no you cant chastize the little darlings, its not their fault they have deep rooted problems from a broken home, give 'em a holiday! So what insentive have the kids got to behave? What b0ll0x i came from a broken home and had a shit childhood, i dont go round mugging or robbing people. I miss-behaved i got a wollop and when i was at school i got the slipper or the cane, never done me any harm, im still here, if anything it tought me respect.

I was at a BBQ the other week and there were two prison officers there, they both said that the prisoners get better treatment than the prison officers, in their rooms they get TV's, DVD players and PS3, I haven't even got a PS3 player :wack:

 

I was also talking to some people who escort asylum seekers out of the country on planes. They were telling me that the people who they escort out of the country are not the nasty ones who go underground, work illegally and commit crimes.

 

The people that they "catch" are the ones who follow the rules, have jobs and or are studying. They turn up to report at the appropriate place as instructed, and are then nabbed to be sent back to the country, because they are the easiest ones to catch and fill the statistics nicely!

 

I also find that people who are in favour of increasing civil liberties are usually the ones who live in areas not over run with out of control scrotes!

I was at a BBQ the other week and there were two prison officers there, they both said that the prisoners get better treatment than the prison officers, in their rooms they get TV's, DVD players and PS3, I haven't even got a PS3 player :wack:

 

I was also talking to some people who escort asylum seekers out of the country on planes. They were telling me that the people who they escort out of the country are not the nasty ones who go underground, work illegally and commit crimes.

 

The people that they "catch" are the ones who follow the rules, have jobs and or are studying. They turn up to report at the appropriate place as instructed, and are then nabbed to be sent back to the country, because they are the easiest ones to catch and fill the statistics nicely!

 

I also find that people who are in favour of increasing civil liberties are usually the ones who live in areas not over run with out of control scrotes!

 

 

that pretty much sums Rotherham up, out of control scrotes and knocked up teenagers!! bless them

To me as civil liberties "improve" and excuses are given for every wrong 'un in the world and at home, it seems that crime is increasing and in particular violent crime.

 

Is it me becoming cynical or realistic?

 

I think there may be some confusion between 'civil liberties' and 'political correctness'. Its political correctness and political liberalism gone awry that have led to things like prisoners with PS3's and home owners being prosecuted for lamping a burglar. Whereas civil liberties such as the right not to have a piece of your body removed (and stored on file for your whole life), not to have you numberplate automatically recorded, and the right of owning a motor vehicle without criminality*- have most certainly taken a considerable beating.

 

 

 

 

 

*Im referring to the new rule of having to SORN your car every year now, the practice of keeping a vehicle has now been criminalised unless you declare every year now that you are not a criminal.

unfortunatly we are all to blame. we let our guard down and things that sound grand and promise a eutopian dream unfortunatly have the far sight of a blind man.

There is no authority, no punishment and not a hint of having to stand up and be counted, its always someone else job.

Its a tough job keeping the ballance right, but being scared shotless of what your parents will do to you when you step out of line is a start, another is when you break the law and you do time, TV, Play Stations are not at your liberty. Re-Educating them, Re-Skilling them shoould be though. And as for repeat offenders, 2 strikes and your out for good.

unfortunatly we are all to blame. we let our guard down and things that sound grand and promise a eutopian dream unfortunatly have the far sight of a blind man.

There is no authority, no punishment and not a hint of having to stand up and be counted, its always someone else job.

Its a tough job keeping the ballance right, but being scared shotless of what your parents will do to you when you step out of line is a start, another is when you break the law and you do time, TV, Play Stations are not at your liberty. Re-Educating them, Re-Skilling them shoould be though. And as for repeat offenders, 2 strikes and your out for good.

 

I do agree with you but dont think its our fault. We didnt let our gaurds down. We were told that we had no say and if we did say anything we would be punished for doing so. You cant express an opinion anymore for fear of all this PC shite. you can be called a honky or whatever but can not call them anything back ( i wont mention the name for fear of breaking the law) :smash:

if you question immigration figures you are labelled a racist, question all women shortlists then you are sexist, question whether homosexuality should be promoted in our schools means you are a homophobe.

 

You can not say anything these days, as already said, what did my grand parents fight in the wars for? You are stripped of your right to have an opinion, freedom of speach.... yeah right!!!

To me as civil liberties "improve" and excuses are given for every wrong 'un in the world and at home, it seems that crime is increasing and in particular violent crime.

 

Is it me becoming cynical or realistic?

 

I (sadly) have to agree mate :(

 

It seems the government's only strategy to reduce crime is to legalize everything that was previously illegal - that way no-one can break the law hence no crime :rolleyes:

 

Richard :cry:

I will tell you the reasons because as far as I am concerned they are obvious.

 

1/. The TV. Full of violence and disrespect. Even soaps.

2/. DVD's. In the 70's & 80's if you wasnt 18. You rarley saw anyone shaggin or getting killed/splatered on the screen.

3/. The internet. Chat rooms and web sites promoting violence and hatered.

4/. The law. Back then if your child was to call you a fat tw@ they would have got a slap? Niow its against the law to smack your kids for being naughty.

5/. Attitudes. Which more or less wraps the previous 4 into one. Youngsters are not afraid of getting arrested or disciplined anymore. Not like the kids of my era were.

 

Add to the list if you can, but all in all thats why I think the children of today are like they are? AND! its getting worst every week.

 

The thing is though. I can remember when I was a child grown ups saying things like "they should bring back the birch" and "they need a fookin good hiding" So its happening all the time and the reason most of us notice so much is because we are getting old now. :)

 

Some good points there Vini :cool:

its a lack of enforced boundaries, as we have grown older the ability for us to enforce discipline and moral behaviour has been eroded by those who believe they represent the civil rights group, parents are not allowed to discipline their children for fear of ostracisation or prosecution, behavioural boundaries are no longer set up or enforced, this then leads to a imoral society with very little that can be done, for a imbalance to be corrected a equal reversing effect must be applied which society could no longer take.

We are stuck in a spiral that will end in the british being the pariahs of europe.