A mate of mine says that ABS blunts the breaking performance of a sports car and good manual breaking is better. Is this true and how do i go about disabling the ABS with possibly renabling it.

 

My stock zed brakes are naff. I might be getting Smity's big brake kit soon.

humm in the wet panic braking you can stop the car from skidding better then a pulse system.lmo keep it and get the brake upgrade. its added for safety for a reason!!!

Check it works at all!! Mines never worked but the light goes out so passes MOT

Stock ABS works pretty well with a stock brake setup. However, with a big brake setup the stock ABS ECU isn't calibrated well enough :( John Dixon posted some info on this a while ago IIRC...

 

HTH

 

Steve :)

TBH I know a brake upgrade is a very healthy mod but I have no problems with my standard brakes. No really. I find they stop me very well. OK not a great comparison but it showed me good from bad. I had a V6 vectra and the brake on that were fookin naff. I will get an upgrade one day. But am satisfied with the standard for now. The ABS works too. I needed it earlier this year and it got me out of a spot not life or death but big dent or no dent. At about 60 MPH I had to slam on in the wet and the car stopped in a straight line and in good time. Maybe I got the good ones??? ;)

Stock ABS works pretty well with a stock brake setup. However, with a big brake setup the stock ABS ECU isn't calibrated well enough :( John Dixon posted some info on this a while ago IIRC...

 

HTH

 

Steve :)

Here you go: http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=48071&highlight=abs+ecu

 

The Stoptech link is down at the moment, but it may come back online tomorrow

 

Steve :)

Most time attack and track day cars have a switch to turn the abs system off on track .for road use id leave it on.

im not a fan of ABS. the way i see it, if you know how to use the brakes properly (not just stamp on them) there's very little or no point to it and over bumps/surface changes i think most ABS systems are more of a danger than a help.

i think nissan would have been better advised to fit brakes upto the job and leave the ABS as an option.

vini: are you really happy with them? my manual has brand new stock brakes and they're bloody awful. great untill you stop hard twice then you're down to using the engine as they fade to nothing.

if anyone wants a good demonstration of just how poo ABS can be, get on some loose gravel (fine stuff) and do a couple of stops. it might aswell be on ice.

si.

BTW, im not totally opposed to the idea. i just think that the system on the Z (and any other car of that era) and most of the cheap systems arent worth it unless you use the brake pedal for a pogo stick. there are some pretty good systems coming out lately but they're on top-end cars and coming on for 20yrs more developed than the Z's.

junk the ABS, get big brakes and learn how to use them properly.

si.

junk the ABS, get big brakes and learn how to use them properly.

si.

Si, the problem is, how many of us have the time to think in a true "emergency stop" situation. I'm sure I'm not the only one who just stamps on the pedal as quickly and as hard as possible. This scenario is what ABS was designed to control IMO. As said above, maybe you can do without ABS on a track, but with the potential of a small child stepping out in front of you on the road, I think it's an essential safety feature :cool:

 

Steve :)

dunno, Steve. i've had to emergency stop a few times over the last 10 years but its just my reaction to stop the car as fast as i can, not just bang the middle pedal on. i suppose its all down to what your natural reaction in those situations is. i have to agree that for a lot (most?) people it could help.

thing is, i started my driving career when i was 11 racing karts (not rich parents, i had to go get my own sponsors, etc) so i suppose that the first way i learnt to brake was controlled even on the edge. i've never changed that so its just something i do without thinking about it.

this is something i feel should be a bigger point in the driving test. these days, you go into the test, sometimes they emerg - stop you but no longer have to and even when they do, you're in a brand new little box car with ABS that does it for you. my point is that no one is taught how to control their car anymore and that cant be good.

maybe everyone should take their test in a cortina? lol

si.

>> A mate of mine says that ABS blunts the breaking performance of a sports car and good manual breaking is better.

 

Most sports cars are light...a Zed isn't

Disabling ABS on track days is fine, if you are a good driver.

As this is in a controlled environment, you will be aware that you'll have to brake hard.

In the real world/road, an emergency stop can not be forseen (in most cases) and as an aid to help stop the car you will need ABS in a heavy car like the Zed.

Not only will a working ABS make the stopping distance considerably less, it will also enable you to steer the car away from the object you are about to hit while standing on the brakes....something that is not possible if you are in a skid.

 

The ABS on my Zed was broken for some time and during that time I had 3 near accidents, because the bloody car just wouldn't stop/steer in case of an emergency stop

Especially in the wet it got into a skid easily and because of it's weight it WON'T stop if the ABS doesn't work, wether you pump the pedal or not.

Having upgraded brakes will only make things worse, as the front wheels will lock up even sooner.

 

I have fixed the ABS recently and have a R34 brakekit on the car and stock ABS works like a charm with this kit....

 

If you want to disable ABS or see the difference in braking capability between a working and non working ABS, then first do a skid course and do a few of the tests with and without ABS.

Only then determine if you STILL want to disable the ABS ;)

Well said Lymon.

I sick of hearing how people think they are world class drivers becasue they think they can brake better without ABS. To be honest, you should not be planning to brake that close to skidding on normal roads.

Indeed, when i crashed my zed 12 months ago i reacted poorly. If it happened again i would slam on the brakes and let the ABS do the work.

 

ABS stays on :)

If you are on losse gravel, then the car ain't gonna stop quickly whatever brake setup you have (ABS OR NOT). You can still use manual control over your brakes even with ABS, coz ABS only works when the car is skidding or going to. You obviously do not want the car to skid when you brake, even on the track, the idea is to brake without skidding and losing steering etc, so you can still do that with ABS on. The ABS will only kick in when the wheels lose grip, so it is only doing what you would be doing anyway if you are a skilled driver, you would lift off the brakes or pump, the ABS does that IF the wheels are skidding! You still have a great deal of leeway for manually stopping the car from skidding by skilful use of the brakes. Except maybe on VERY poor surfaces like gravel/ice etc, but then as I said, I don't think you can really control skidding on these surfaces by skill either! Nothing is going to stop your car from skidding under braking on ice or oil for example!

Last April i was in Germany for work and getting a taxi to the hotel. The taxi was a Mercedes E class, very nice. It had snowed heavily and when this Merc went down this cobble paved road the car could not stop at all. You could hear the ABS going 'thump thump thump' as it tried to stop the wheels from skidding which it could not.

 

My previous car was a Peugout 406 Hdi. The ABS was the most aggressive i have come across. The car often skidded on the road when i braked heavily.

I sick of hearing how people think they are world class drivers becasue they think they can brake better without ABS.

 

???

you dont have to anywhere near world class to outbrake most older ABS systems. the only time i think it can help is when you actually panic and just jump on the brakes. by then i think you've lost control anyway and you're just hoping the car will bail you out which is a situation you shouldnt really get into in the first place.

 

as i said, some newer systems are very good (new M3 i drove last month was decent) and are worth it but the on-off-on-off of the older systems can upset the cars suspension and make things a lot worse than they were. also, the ABS will wait untill the wheels have already locked to counter that. by then you're losing efficiency anyway then it looses the brakes for a little then lets them bang on again.

 

the M3 doesnt do this to such an extent and i'd say it could stop the car as well as most people so therefore worth it. the Z system and most other older systems to my mind are only of use if you're half asleep or one of the new set of drivers that think "hit the pedal harder, it stops faster".

 

im not saying its big and clever to go without ABS but i'd trust my right foot more than the Z's system.

 

if i owned that M3 i wouldnt even think of taking it off.

and as for the Z being hard to stop as its heavy - ???????

heavier cars are much easier to crash-stop over uneven or loose surfaces as they dont twitch or bounce as easily as lighter ones. they wont usually stop as fast due to their weight (some exeptions). they also have (generally) better brakes which makes it easier for the jockey to lock them up when stamped on so that may give the impression of difficulty to control.

 

:shock: that'll probably ruffle a few feathers.

just my 10p

si.

Well said Lymon.

I sick of hearing how people think they are world class drivers becasue they think they can brake better without ABS. To be honest, you should not be planning to brake that close to skidding on normal roads.

 

Testified!! :cool:

 

ABS is an essential safety feature and ALL cars should have it, PERIOD.

 

The moment when the brakes are at their most efficient is just before they lock up. Any advanced driving instructor worth his salt will tell you that - which is why "cadence braking" was encouraged in older non-ABS cars.

 

ABS systems do the job far better and safer than any person could, by releasing the pressure just before lock-up and re-applying it instantly, many times a second.

 

OK so ABS doesn't stop you on loose gravel or snow but at least you can retain control of the steering.

 

Try braking hard from say 130mph on a damp surface in a straight line without it and see how far you get.

 

Richard :nono:

TBH I know a brake upgrade is a very healthy mod but I have no problems with my standard brakes. No really. I find they stop me very well. OK not a great comparison but it showed me good from bad. I had a V6 vectra and the brake on that were fookin naff. I will get an upgrade one day. But am satisfied with the standard for now. The ABS works too. I needed it earlier this year and it got me out of a spot not life or death but big dent or no dent. At about 60 MPH I had to slam on in the wet and the car stopped in a straight line and in good time. Maybe I got the good ones??? ;)

 

Same here Vin! :cool:

 

Although I have now fitted 3G slotted front discs, they are stock size though....

 

Richard ;)

The moment when the brakes are at their most efficient is just before they lock up.

 

ABS cant predict lock up and only knows a wheel is locking when it already has.

 

ABS systems do the job far better and safer than any person could,

 

new systems yes, old systems no.

 

by releasing the pressure just before lock-up

 

must be the only psychic computer in the world then. as i said, it CANT predict lock up. only newer systems even control slip aswell as lock. old ones just release the brakes when they lock.

 

OK so ABS doesn't stop you on loose gravel or snow but at least you can retain control of the steering.

 

so you can aim wherever you like but cant stop?

(new systems allow for poor surfaces anyway but i'd still not trust them to the hilt)

 

Try braking hard from say 130mph on a damp surface in a straight line without it and see how far you get.

 

my prelude had no ABS fitted from the factory but wet, dry or any other, it was probably the best stopping car i've ever owned. and yes, it was very capable of hitting a lot more than 130mph quite often and stopping hard from it. the Z with its nice ABS just will not stop like that. just as you brake and the nose starts to dive, the ABS cries out and lets the front lift again slightly which in turn takes away front end grip which makes the ABS kick again, etc and it just doesnt stop as well as it could. at any speed.

 

si.

ABS cant predict lock up and only knows a wheel is locking when it already has.

 

 

 

new systems yes, old systems no.

 

 

 

must be the only psychic computer in the world then. as i said, it CANT predict lock up. only newer systems even control slip aswell as lock. old ones just release the brakes when they lock.

 

 

 

so you can aim wherever you like but cant stop?

(new systems allow for poor surfaces anyway but i'd still not trust them to the hilt)

 

 

 

my prelude had no ABS fitted from the factory but wet, dry or any other, it was probably the best stopping car i've ever owned. and yes, it was very capable of hitting a lot more than 130mph quite often and stopping hard from it. the Z with its nice ABS just will not stop like that. just as you brake and the nose starts to dive, the ABS cries out and lets the front lift again slightly which in turn takes away front end grip which makes the ABS kick again, etc and it just doesnt stop as well as it could. at any speed.

 

si.

 

I prostrate myself in front of the world's greatest brake expert then...... :rolleyes:

Settle petals. Just get to know your car and more importantly YOUR capablities on the likes of track days and make an informed decision from there. Don't forget that panic overules a lot of experience at times.

I think my abs has saved me at least a couple of times. First time was on a wet morning on the way to thorseby show when a women pulled out in front of me. My thoughs over about two seconds went like this. F%&K! Brake! abs cuts in, Ok so stopping is not an option, look for a gap - ahh that'll do swerve and try not to spin it!

 

Got past her after swerving violently with about an inch room on each side. If it wasnt for the abs cutting in I would have probably just locked up and not been able to steer around her.

 

Ed

Coming off a motorway slip road,indicated,big lorry just in front,me not to close,gradual turning to go up slip road,lorry going ahead up motorway,ooooohhhhh fook,all traffic backing down dual slip road had stopped,to late i thought,but ABS stops me within 6 inches i kid you not,thank fook for ABS,and to be honest,when i have belted round race tracks i prefer the abs on,can certainly take the p*** with late braking :D

 

Tony

ABS is worth it's weight in gold, NO motor should be without it EVER. It has saved my skin on many occasions, doesn't matter if it's an old or new system, your car is better and safer WITH it there! ABS wasn't just invented for idiots, it is like airbags, an essential safety feature on modern cars. People who think they are the worlds greatest drivers have put down every new piece of technology on cars, even the gearboxes now used on EVERY F1 car!! They said that they would hinder performance etc etc, again they have been proved totally wrong. They even said that four wheel drive was rubbish and would hinder performance when Audi put it into their UR Quattro, and some people still argue it is no good for road cars!!! Despite Audi being banned from the TRACK because they were winning everything. In my opinion, ABS is brilliant, not perfect, nothing ever is, but brilliant, and I consider myself a competent driver and good braker even without ABS.