Just got in from inspecting my new toy, traced the oil leak to drivers side turbo (OH CRAP). I now need to look at the options available to get the job sorted and would be grateful for any advice you may have to offer.

 

I know this aint gonna be cheep but I am not sure weather to have the original turbos repaired or go for new ones. Only one turbo is leaking at the moment but since its an engine out job would I be wiser to have both done at the same time? Should I pay the extra for new turbos, which may be a better bet in the long run? The original turbos have 100K on them and the car has had the cats removed (think that’s relevant).

 

On the subject, Would you recommend I pay extra for up rated turbos or is that going to lead to ecu upgrades, intake upgrades, breather kits and all kinds of other stuff that I know very little about.

 

I guess what I would like is an idea of prices and options and any recommendations, having just bought the car I’m fairly skint but an idea of costs will at least give me an idea of what is coming.

 

Thanks a lot

 

Steve

 

P.S going for a bath now (covered in oil) but will check back in an hour or so.

 

I think if you just get new turbos they will still only run at stock boost. So a ECU upgrade will needed to take advantage of the extra PSI it can produce. Also if you get larger turbos will cause more turbo lag and would cause your car to be slower, due to the extra lag and no extra boost.

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, this is what I think will happen.

 

Stuart

Srrae

 

Thanks for the reply.

I’m not necessarily looking to upgrade the turbos, although any gains for a reasonable price would be a bonus. The first priority is to get the car back on the road without having to rob a bank.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Steve.r (edited 28-10-2001).]

Srrae

 

Thanks for the reply.

I’m not necessarily looking to upgrade the turbos, although any gains for a reasonable price would be a bonus. The first priority is to get the car back on the road without having to rob a bank.

 

If you go for just larger turbos then characteristics will be as you describe, i.e. increased lag and no increase in boost, but lag is only the time it takes the turbo to spin up from 'idle' speed, so if you are in the correct rev range from take off, and keep it above the spin up rpm then lag wouldnt be a problem. But this is the case with all turbos. However they should hold the full boost better at high rpms and have the ability to go to a higher boost of required.

A larger turbo with thrust/roller bearings will have less lag time with the ability to hold boost for longer at high rpms. (I dont know if anyone has trouble holding full boost at high rpms.)

Dont know how common a fault like the next one is, but I have heard of 360degree bearings sometimes having problems when at full boost and going over rather bumpy surface whereas 270degree bearing dont have this problem, has anyone else heard of this? I have no proof though.

There are varying degrees to how far you can go with hybrid turbos and Im sure that turbo 'manufacturers' i.e. people who produce the hybrids can discuss you requirements advise on the best turbo for any plans you may or may not have for the future.

 

I forgot to say that the problem with the 360 degree bearing is that it holds the turbine shaft so tight that it has caused it to break, however this was most probably due to poor upgrading, possibly unbalanced impellor blades. As I said only a rare occurence.

I think there is very little difference with reconditioned turbos and new one the same size. Virtually everything inside the turbo will be replaced with new components, the only difference being that the outer casing will be new. Un less there are cracks or weaknesses in the outer casing, IMHO, recons will work the same and last the same as new turbos.

 

Stuart

Thanks again.

 

It appears that my best option (with a tight budget) is to go for reconditioned turbos. I live in Essex and obviously with the bad oil leak have a limited distance I can travel to get the job done. I know of Silvia Engineering, which is fairly local, has anyone had this job done with them and if so how much? Or is there anywhere else that you would recommend.

 

Steve

 

SE have done loads of these. I would recommend going for the 360 deg bearings.

Turbo Technics will refurb pretty much any turbo for you. Dunno how much they charge though. Price from SE will be something like £600 per turbo and you'll get a 12 month guarantee and it'll run up to 1.5 bar boost. Fitting (engine out)is about £700 for 1 or 2 turbos. Standard turbos cost about £460. I have heard of people who do it with the engine in, but it takes about the same time and you pay about the same.

Few people have used SE on this board. Post a new thread asking what people think of them and you will open a can of worms. I think the general feeling of them is, good but dont let them tune up your car.

Apparently Hiteq in wigan are the best for turbos stiff.

 

Like a said make a new post and ask.

 

Stuart

Having read the advise and comments by others it may well be time for your turbo or turbos to be replaced.However always the optimist me,a more detailed inspection could save you money rather than a quick poke about with a torch.I would set aside a dry day and get the car as high as poss, even if you need to hire some proffessional axle stands.Now using one of the many degreasers spray the area that is oil soaked and clean down in the reccomended way.Once dried off (loads of paper towel) inspect the area with a mains lead light and check any hoses or flange seals.If you are not able to find any particular leak,dust the area with talcom powder.You will have to lower the car and go for a run, upon return re-inspect and with any luck the leak will show it self and its source in the talcom powder.

It seems a long process but believe me I know on friends cars I have used this to good result and often find the leak to be more easily repaired than originally thought.

Hope this works for you and saves you money.

Jeff TT

 

 

 

Probably a turbo seal, but a pain to remove the turbos.

 

A repair will most likely be your best option.

Thanks guys.

 

Stuart

Living where I do I little option as to where I take the car, a long journey would be too dangerous with the bad oil leak and I certainly am not up to attempting the repair myself.

 

Jeff TT

I understand what you are saying, I did have a good (but not perfect) cleanup with a rag and used a mains lamp to inspect. On starting the car I saw a steady drip of oil coming from the joint at the back of the turbo and the exhaust, is this where the leak would be in the event of a dead turbo. As you know it is impossible to see above the turbo and I guess it’s possible that oil is dripping onto the turbo and running down but I suspect that is wishful thinking.

 

Steve,

 

Already mentioned above, but you may benefit from having a word with Turbo Technics (see http://www.turbotechnics.com/ ). They are very helpful over the phone, and their site has some good info.

 

If you need to replace, they mention exchange units, but they also do Hybrid turbos. For the ZX they offer a stage 1 & 2 hybrid. I think the stage 1, if you go for the hybrid, is the one to fit unless you have strengthened your engine's internals for the very high boosts.

 

I believe it is Turbo Technics who produce a special version of their hybrid for SE (to SE's spec and only available from SE).

 

Hope this helps. Geoff

Thanks Geoff.

 

I have looked at the Turbo Technics site, very interesting, they seem to be saying that faulty turbo oil seals will result in blue exhaust smoke. Since my exhaust is clear is it possible that I am being misled by the location of the oil leak. Like I said it oil is dripping from the turbo / exhaust flange, would this happen in the event of faulty turbo oil seals, and if so would there also be an exhaust blow at that point because there is none evident.

Is there an oil feed or somthing directly above the turbo which may be leaking?

 

Steve

Steve,

 

The rev test I described in your "A word of warning to new zed buyers (very long and probably very boring, sorry)" posting will tell you whether it is turbo seal trouble.

I'm running over 400bhp with dodgy oil seals!

Do they really need changing yet?

You should know by now

Johnny@GPS= best prices and turbos fitted without removing engine (via Hi tec).

Just dont accept the coffee

Paul

Thanks for the info

I have emaild hiteq to request a price at your recomendation, however the engine is dumping oil on the road at the rate of about a pint per hour, not sure how I would get it there though.

 

Steve

OK OK I emaild the wrong people!

got it right second time around though.

 

Steve

if it is turbo trouble then try turboshop, 01327 310311 ask for vince, they are the dogs danglies when it comes to servicing/repairing turbos,we use them all the time on the cossies, best there is. cheers cossyboy

Originally posted by Steve.r:

Thanks Geoff.

 

I have looked at the Turbo Technics site, very interesting, they seem to be saying that faulty turbo oil seals will result in blue exhaust smoke. Since my exhaust is clear

 

 

I had the same problem with turbo seals,b ut bleu smoke? clear? mine was white from the exhaust, and white smoke coming from under the hood.

 

It is worth double checking that the oil is coming from the turbo and not coming from somewhere above e.g head gasket and dropping onto the turbo body.Also check if you are seeing blue smoke from the exhaust. If its only a drip you don't neeed to panic for a while yet.

 

If you need to change turbos I would say recon ones are best bet. Now is the best time to decide what you are going to do with the car regarding upgrades. Uprated turbos are a good idea but only if they fit into your plan for upgrading the car. SE can do a good job for you espeially if they are local to you. they've done mine. They use turbo technics for the reconditioning. Talk to SE or Johnny at GPS and they can advise.

 

 

When people call it blue smoke they don't actually mean the smoke is blue!!! They mean its white smoke with a blue tinge...

I think if a car was putting a proper blue cloud out it would be very very very nackered

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

 

Would deffo investigate a little further before spending any dosh though Steve

One other point while I think about it.... That rate of oil loss is VERY doubtful to be a turbo rear oil seal.... It's far too much oil to lose in my opinion

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Could be wrong here, but there is a pressurised oil feed to the turbo bearings. If the turbo casing were cracked then it could leak and you could potentially lose quite a lot. It is also possible that if it were cracked then oil could get into the turbo water jacket and into the cooling system. Therefore, check your radiator or coolant level, it'll be dead obvious - the oil would float on top !