Have just been on TurboTechnics website to learn more about Hybrid Turbos. All very impressive but a few questions need answering for dumbo here!

 

When is the best time to have this done in the upgrade process? Say that I am going down this route with my car...

 

Blitz SUS Intake

Blitz RealliZe Cat back exhaust

JWT ECU upgrade

ASP underdrive pulley

 

Brakes and TC etc. etc.

 

So where in amongst this little lot would it be a great idea to off turbos and get them upgraded at somewhere like TurboTechnics???

 

Also, they claim that for our cars and obviously some green you can expect 360+ bhp, is this just the turbos on their own or with other upgrades?

 

Last but not least, without ringing them up, roughly how much to have this done with exchange units e.g. your existing turbos?

 

Timmy Boy

;-)

 

 

[This message has been edited by Timmy_Turbo (edited 14-08-2001).]

well wihtout the turbos you can get 360 bhp no problem,

Bigger turbos arnt worth it (he he he) i cant say mine feel any different from stock one (bahahahaha) its this siberian weather making my mind go

I've got these fitted after my old ones went Pete Tong. The lag feels more or less the same as the old turbos. However, I'm told the blades are steel instead of ceramic and will therefore cope with more boost. Turbo Technics claim to do some fancy jiggery pokery in order to keep the lag down without using ceramics.

 

I was told at the time that the stage II ones involved a set of new pistons to reduce the compression ratio. Sounded a bit like overkill to me as I am sure there are cheaper ways involving head gasket spacers, etc. Then again I know bugger all so these comments aren't worth much!

 

Please feel free to correct my inaccurate drivel...

 

Mike

Yeah, cheers Mike, on the website they go on about cutting the blades back on the compressor fan blades...what is this all about? Also they've got these VSR balancing machines which they've pioneered apparently.

 

Link to Turbo Technics interesting Turbo facts...

 

Timmy, isn't your engine in bit's at SE ?

that's the time to change turbo's, labour is big bucks with engine in or out. Personally i wouldn't bother with the stage 1s that your looking at, go for stage 2s, power figures quoted are what the turbo will sustain, not give ya. i had stage 2 ones on order but due to delivery problems went and got ball bearing spool up jobs for only a couple of hundred quid more. stage 2 are around £1,500 a pair exchange and Ian at Hiteq leaves the engine in to fit, unlike SE who remove and charge £695.00 labour. Smithy

smithy are you saying ian at hitech does not remove the the engine to change the turbos?

but then he wants 700squid to repair a turbo whent he seal are like 20 pounds or soemthing

Smithy,

have you any more info about your turbos? (ie their type- T28 or T28/25, power, spool-up, safe boost pressure with similar mods to Timmy's).

I'm toying with the idea of getting some turbos from Johnny after a visit to Hiteq the other week

Dave

Warren,

It probably takes the near enough the same amount of time to take the engine out and do the turbos as it does to leave it in !

 

My only concern with removing the engine is disturbing all those wires and tubes that after 'n' years are well and truly welded in place and have gone all crispy with the heat. On the other hand it's probably a good opportunity to clean it all up properly and replace all the dodgy looking bits that will fail and cause pain in the future.

what a load of shit.. the stock turbos are NOT ceramic (unless something happens on the way from Japan to UK that I'm not aware of). GT-R R32's had ceramic turbines which shat themselves when you upped the boost.

 

The stock Zs are small T2/T22 jobbies both compressor and turbine are steel, the turbine housing is either .63 or .54 a/r depending on whether the car is manual or auto and whether the turbos have been replaced in Japan. Infact it may have only been on some manual cars that the .63 turbos were placed on as they are frickin rare.

 

There are normally two steps of compressor size increase on a stock turbo. Go for the larger T3 wheel in a carved out stock housing if you don't want to spend megabucks but do want to make a bit more power. I know of people who've gotten the smaller compressor and been really unimpressed with the power increase (or lack thereof). The larger T3 tends to work quite well for all round road use and will do up around 450-500hp at the flywheel**

 

You won't make good power on a single air intake, you'll need to upgrade a dual air intake and put larger intercoolers in. Intercoolers are where power is made and lost. If you put larger turbos in without upping the intercooler flow/efficiency you're asking for trouble. (goto 600plus.com and look at blown engines for some examples of fucked engines).

 

Up the oil cooler capacity and give the engine a good general tidy up. And run it on decent oil like MOTUL 300V not like Mobil shite.

 

*** Go to zclub.org.nz http://zclub.org.nz/nz300zx/members/rides/005.htm

 

THATS an example of what you need to do to get 500 at the flywheel. One of my mates cars and it works really really well and is quite enough power for most people.

 

 

As far as pulling engines out, takes between 6-8hrs if you know what you're doing. I've seen my legend tech dude do some engine pulls in simply unreal times. Anybody who attempts to do a turbo inplace is masochistic and runs the risk of leaving something like an oil line loose.

Great minds think alike Timmy Turbo.

Me also got Blitz sus air cleaner and realize exhaust.

Got the asp pulley but cos I went for the turbo technics stage 1

turbos decided to go for se nissans stage 2 chip

( not my best desition).

Paul

Originally posted by kiwi_z:

what a load of shit.. the stock turbos are NOT ceramic (unless something happens on the way from Japan to UK that I'm not aware of). GT-R R32's had ceramic turbines which shat themselves when you upped the boost.

 

The stock Zs are small T2/T22 jobbies both compressor and turbine are steel, the turbine housing is either .63 or .54 a/r depending on whether the car is manual or auto and whether the turbos have been replaced in Japan. Infact it may have only been on some manual cars that the .63 turbos were placed on as they are frickin rare.

 

There are normally two steps of compressor size increase on a stock turbo. Go for the larger T3 wheel in a carved out stock housing if you don't want to spend megabucks but do want to make a bit more power. I know of people who've gotten the smaller compressor and been really unimpressed with the power increase (or lack thereof). The larger T3 tends to work quite well for all round road use and will do up around 450-500hp at the flywheel**

 

You won't make good power on a single air intake, you'll need to upgrade a dual air intake and put larger intercoolers in. Intercoolers are where power is made and lost. If you put larger turbos in without upping the intercooler flow/efficiency you're asking for trouble. (goto 600plus.com and look at blown engines for some examples of fucked engines).

 

Up the oil cooler capacity and give the engine a good general tidy up. And run it on decent oil like MOTUL 300V not like Mobil shite.

 

*** Go to zclub.org.nz http://zclub.org.nz/nz300zx/members/rides/005.htm

 

THATS an example of what you need to do to get 500 at the flywheel. One of my mates cars and it works really really well and is quite enough power for most people.

 

 

As far as pulling engines out, takes between 6-8hrs if you know what you're doing. I've seen my legend tech dude do some engine pulls in simply unreal times. Anybody who attempts to do a turbo inplace is masochistic and runs the risk of leaving something like an oil line loose.

 

I've just shelled out £1600 for T25 (360-dg bearing) hybrid turbos at SE, plus some more for bigger intercoolers. It was all going so well (with ~ 17-18psi boost according to the Autoneter guage) until I tried to top 165mph on an empty motorway. That's when I backed off and noticed the dreaded blue smoke coming out the exhaust. Another trip to SE and it turns out there's about 25-30% loss on the piston/bore leakdown test (normal should be ~10%) and it's making ~10psi boost now and running a bit rough. So looks like a rebuild then...

 

How much heat (and for how long?) will the standard 300zx (cast) pistons take?

If I get forged low-comp pistons what's the likely (safe) boost pressure I can run with the turbos?

Is it really going to make a big difference going for higher lift cams / head porting during the rebuild?

I'm after ~500bhp if the turbos are up to it. Are there any websites giving proper dyno-charts along with the engine mods made for this sort of power?

(Good)advice would be much appreciated.

 

 

You can change the turbos from underneath the cars. Some one I was talking to in Halfords carpark one day said he worked on them, and you can reach the turbos if the car is lifted.

 

Stuart

I cant agree with this. i have an options magazine and there are 300zx tt's running 800bhp + and have single intakes.

"You won't make good power on a single air intake, you'll need to upgrade a dual air intake and put larger intercoolers in."

 

And i dont agree that you will increase your flow by putting bigger intercoolers in. you increase the cooler air going in but by putting a larger intercooler on the car does not mean you get more flow in the engine.

 

"Intercoolers are where power is made and lost. If you put larger turbos in without upping the intercooler flow/efficiency you're asking for trouble. (goto 600plus.com and look at blown engines for some examples of fucked engines). "

 

------------------

 

[This message has been edited by 300z (edited 15-08-2001).]

Dave + AD, For the money shelled out to SE for turbos, could have got ball bearing spool up jobs, similar spec as the HKS ones but without the name, equivelant to a stage 3

Ian at Hiteq can do turbo's with engine in, slightly quicker, but as we know without disturbing everything else, price quoted to me was cheaper than SE, but without the dreaded after sales problems, hmm blown engine from SE, another one. Smithy

you put the words into my mouth smithy

Here we go again.

 

Turbo`s.

 

I`m sure Smithy will back me up on this one.

Speak to me for the best price and options.

 

I have had bigger turbo`s on my motor for the last 3 years and no problem.

Ian can fit the units without taking the engine out. We are booked solid until the end of August, so a bit of notice would help.

 

 

Regards

 

Johnny @ Grasshopper

So no chance of just dropping in en spec then hey Johnny?

 

Sorry couldn't resist.. Your other post makes you sound stressed as hell

 

Az

mon dieaux are you like that elusive fingerpig mr grasshopper man muhahahaahahahahahahaah sorry m8 i couldnt resist a little dig speak tya tomorrow my good man

Always welcome to drop round for a beer or Cider and Black? (EL TOOLEY)

 

Almost finished GT3 now.

1 race to complete on the Formula 1 racing series.

 

Whats out next?

Andy get those link cables quick sticZ mate.

 

Anyway if you want more info on turbo`s and what to watch out for and who to avoid please contact me direct.

 

Johnny (Still waiting for my fucking Blitz wheels).

 

ooops by the way. Fingerpig has had a slight accident in his beloved. Mark is o.k HOWEVER?

 

 

RegardZ

 

Johnny

 

------------------

 

ooops hope its not too serious but the mercenary in me hopes i can now relieve him of some of his goodies i'll be round tomorrow night m8ty as im back out on the office drinky type thing on friday but feel free to come down for some big screen gt3 antics if you want later on friday night

Point 1 Single vs Dual intakes

Single - Dual Intakes: Unless you are running MAP sensors you will only get so much air through the stock AFM. The stock AFM has a max reading voltage. Show me a Z which produces over 500hp through the stock AFM AND Single Air Intake AND doesn't perform better on a dual air intake, and I will eat my words. I doubt you guys for road use will want to run MAP sensors in place of AFM's. In every day road applications the dual air intake kit with relocating the AFM seems to be adequete enough (so long as the map has correct a/f ratios).

 

I personally am building my car so that I will have a dual air with LINK with Map sensor as I can live with any slight idle/warm up problems. If I do that I can also rip the dual air off, put a single on dyno it, and repeat the dyno with the dual. If the dyno charts are better on the single I'll buy you a beer, if dual wins then you buy me one, if we're ever in the same country, howzat ?

 

ANYTHING you do to increase / deristrict flow means that you improve spool up and increase horsepower/torque. As far as big turbos go, I'm not sure about these big monsters running single air intakes. If you've got pictures and what they've done, I'll believe ya. But from my experience the ones I've seen pictures of have got the shortest possible air intake tract length and use twin intakes, I've seen a small handful of pics of Jap Z's which have the air intakes nesteled beside the hicas unit and fuse box.. ie directly out from the turbos. Infact in our TD06 monster we don't have any air intake tracts, it's just mesh over the intakes.. about our TD06'ers in 1st gear (but long gearing), running rich, are upto 0.8 bar boost by 5000rpm or so. A big monster'd GT-R that has been built here had open intakes on the turbos, they went and put an air intake system on and LOST 1500rpm in spoolup which made the car near undriveable. So I go back to my comment .. ANYTHING you do to increase / derestrict flow improves life in general. In a single you've got 2x 2.5" pipes converging into one 3" pipe, better to have to 2x 2.5"s sucking from their own filters, no ?

 

We've seen (on the same car) and jump from 220kw @ wheels to 240kw @ wheels by switching over to a dual air intake. And a HUGE increase in torque.

 

So the point is you *can* do it with a single, but is it better than a dual air intake / no intake at all ?

 

Intercoolers

I do take my word "flow" back. I should've just left efficency in there, larger aftermarket intercoolers are much better at making cool air. Cool air = more horsepower. The stock intercoolers are tiny POS little items when you compare them against items like the stillen ones. I didn't quite realise the difference till we were doing the ones on my car, we put the two side by side, both my tech and I were like "faarrrrkk.." For bigger turbo applications when you start stuffing big wheels into small housings you start upping the flow and requirements for cooling the air which stock ics can't provide. Also if you run a compressor outside it's efficiency aree, and it doesn't have a big enough diffuser (becuase you've carved out a stock housing) it will start heating up the air big time coming out from the compressor. Not good.

 

Blowing up engines

There is sooooo many things to do properly when doing an engine up thats why theres the race shops to do it for you. The basic gist is some race cars don't even produce the power we're extracting out of these engines.. . and think how much preparation goes into race engines????

thanks for that very interesting reading.

makes me want to spend more money lol

Cheers Kiwi mate, excellent tech. write-up! Impressario to the NZ geeZer!!!

 

I'm on the same line of thinking as you WaZZa...can't spend any more green now! Spent faaarrrrr too much already!

 

Tim

I'm happy enough with the SE turbos (and their i/coolers), it's the standard cast pistons that can't cope with the heat/pressure generated with all the extra boost (on a coolish night they wanted to run 20+psi even with the boost controller at 1/3 of its max, I turned it down to run ~17/18psi).

Anybody else had problems running high boost on standard pistons?

 

lol i dont even want to go anywhere near the S.E conversastion lol

 

------------------

its probably more like stuffed/detonating engines and poor fuel/oil engine treatment, cooling system etc causing a problem. Whilst forgies are better the stock pistons have quite a bit of metal in them.

 

One of my friends used to own a T28 equipped, NOS'd, TTZ with 555's, JWT Cams, etc etc etc.. ran shitloads of boost constantly and drove it exceedingly hard, but ALWAYS warmed it up properly, ran it on good oil etc. NEVER blew the pistons whilst he owned it. Sold it to another one of my mates who blew a hole in #6 within weeks as it was then summer time (and the car hadn't been run for months) and the LINK wasn't tuned for the hot weather.. he didn't know when to back off.. detonated it too much and kaboom. Holed piston.

 

Fact of the matter was the car held together for something like 30'000 kms (the valves on the original engine spec wore out) without going up in a cloud of molten metal whilst it was taken care of.

 

I got the privelage of driving it at the dragstrip and it went like f***k too

 

The turbos were quite a bit bigger than the standard shove a T3 wheel in and hope for the best