So - finally I'm posting so I guess I must be serious. Here's the deal:

 

I'm nearly 24, and currently drive a saxo VTR which I've owned for over 2 years - the car handles beautifully, and has been a joy to own. However, I feel the time has come to change it for something with a little more power. I don't want to spend a fortune changing the car and can't see that there's a more value-for-money sports car than a used Z when you combine performance and good looks (other options: fiat coupe 20V turbo = not sure about looks, fiat reliability, Scooby turbo = non-coupe looks and higher price).

 

So I'd love a zed, and I figure a 90-92 Z won't cost much more than the sale price of the VTR. So why not go for it? Well...

 

1) I only drive about 2-3 miles to/from work every day and am worried about any effect this may have on the turbos of a TT not warming up (except at the w/ends!:D). I have given a lot of thought to going for a NA model, but obviously that's not what I'd REALLY want to do [and see 4) below]!

 

2) Unfortunately, whilst my knowledge of facts, figures and models of cars is good, my 'under-the-bonnet' know-how is pretty limited. I'm willing to learn and get my hands dirty but am worried that when stuff goes wrong I'll end up taking it to the garage and being charged a fortune on a regular basis (I know you only hear the bad stuff, but it would be my only car and I can't bear the thought of it being sat in the garage for ages)

 

3) Running costs - Insurance: Will cost about 5 times as much (3 [and a half!] yrs NCB), repairs/cost (VTR has been v reliable), fuel consumption I can live with (otherwise I'd drive a diesel!!)

 

4) Finally, and importantly, I'm an enthusiast so it has just got to be a manual (I realise about 80% aren't). Pref not (performance) modded and also I'd love a grey/silver/poss black so I'm really limiting myself on choice.

 

Apologies for the length of post. I've really given this a fair bit of thought already - I've even opened an ISA which will have a £1K in it by the time I buy the car (if I do) to cover the poss cost of any big repairs which might come up. You guys on this site seem really helpful and I'd appreciate any advice you may have (especially on 1) above!!!).

 

Many thanks in advance.

Hello and welcome

 

1. 2-3 miles to work will kill your petrol, the choke will be on and you will probably only get 14mpg too and from work. On a longer run you will get about 25mpg taking it easy on the motorway.

 

2. The engine is really complicated and there is no room to work in. I have done loads of things to an engine, including changing an metro engine before polishing the head. The Z I leave well alone besides the oil changes and stuff. Have you seen the inside of a Z engine bay?

 

3. You are about the same age as me. Im 23 with 4 years NCB and I got my insurance to £900 TPFT. Fully comp was £1500.

For insurance its best to get a UK Z. The Jap ones have higher insurance, to the extent that a Jap NA cost more to insure than a UK TT. All UK are TT 2+2 seaters and all with T-Tops. So if you see a 2 seater or a NA or hard top or convertable, its not a UK car.

I spend about £25-£30 a week on petrol on a normal week, if you can afford it try to get a little run around for the short trips to and from work. Parts are not cheap but there are great sources on this forum to keep the cost of things down, and AndyZ is always breaking a Z so cheap 2nd parts are not too hard to find. Nissan charge an arm and a leg for the simplest thing.

 

4. The most important thing is to wait and not buy the first one you see. There loads of Z's for sale on Autotrader but we get the feeling that most of them are dogs and wont last too long.

 

Happy hunting.

 

Stuart

 

P.S. Where you from?

Many thanks for the comments Stuart.

 

I didn't really envisage doing too much work on the engine itself (!), but I imagine that even the simpler jobs require a little time, effort and expertise, and I suppose I'm worried that I may not be able to sort out some of the niggling problems which could make ownership a real pain.

 

Incidentally, the only even slightly major fix I ever did was on a Metro I used to own - changing a bust water pump!!! In fact that car is now owned by my little sister and I may just have to buy it back from her to cater for the short trip to/from work as you mention!!! (Also, i gather insurance is cheaper if you run Z as a 2nd car on classic insurance).

 

Interesting to note comments about Autotrader - I have seen many Z's there at reasonable prices - I probably imagined trying on of those ads as a first port of call.

 

As I say- not toooooo worried about petrol since even if 15 mpg, I'm only doing 5 miles a day => cost = not too much. The real concern is any problem such regular journied may cause to engine/turbos.

 

I live in Cheltenham. Where are u from (ah I see, Wigan)/how long have you owned your Z?

 

Ben

1. short journeys are bad for any car. just dont be tempted to boot it while cold. not nice for the engine

 

2. most major mechanical work is best left to someone who knows what the're doing. tho the majority of work can be done DIY, esp with the help of everyone on here.

 

3. running costs are obviously, as you say, going to be higher than your Saxo. dont think otherwise ;)

 

4. mine was a UK manual unmodded (apart from 17" alloys :D ) just make sure its a clean one. if you buy a dodgy one thinking you can fix it up for cheap you're asking for trouble IMHO

 

oh, and the "I've even opened an ISA which will have a £1K in it by the time I buy the car (if I do) to cover the poss cost of any big repairs which might come up." bit.........................

 

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!! £1k???? for any big repairs????????? what like a new oil filler cap????? well not quite but hopefully you get the picture :D

Paul

 

Again - comments noted!

 

I didn't anticipate that £1K would be enough to pay for the replacement of knackered turbos (god forbid), but it would certainly help if something like that went wrong suddenly. Raising the additional casharoos should then be a lot easier... I'm under no illusions that such big repairs are a possibility and am just making preparations, in case.;)

 

Wouldn't dream of thinking I could sort out a dodgy one - the intention is to buy clean and keep it that way (the difficulty will be knowing which are and which aren't!!:confused: )

 

Always let the Saxo warm up - as you say, no good to boot it cold in any car, but again, my concern is whether simply pootling around town whilst cold every day will cause any problem.

 

Stuart - which Ins Co are you with? - £900 sounds very reasonable for our age/NCB.:cool:

Insurance isn't that bad if it's uk, "only" group 18.

I've just turned 20 and it's about £1100 TPFT and this allows a fair amount of mods as well.

Being a few years older, i would expect £750 or £800 would be about right but depends on the area i guess.

 

Twinturbo.net is even more of a god send than this place when it comes to carrying out jobs, the tech section shows you how to do the majority of things and the search is fab.

 

I picked up my Z quite cheap and have done many jobs over the last few months, including things like cambelt, intercooler change, fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, k&n filter,oil and today just finished my ice.

Spent hours on it but not really that much money, about £200 maybe.

I'm about to get the clutch sorted then in my opinion, it'll be one nice Z.

i also dont drive a great distance to work, so long as u change the oil regularly and drive sensibly i dont see how it should cause a problem, mine certainly hasnt for the last 4 months, you will get crappy mpg tho, i get about 20 miles to a tenner, on my days off it gets a good blast out tho when warmed up.

 

all i can say is i dont care how much it cost to run its worth it, friday morning lovely sunny day and quite warm, the targas go off and i go for a nice drive, such a great feeling

 

 

a manual uk will be hard to find i can assure you,

 

happy hunting and welcome aboard

Robtor i used to live about 5 miles from Salisbury - would have thought postcode rating bout the same as where I live now.

 

Gotta be a manual I'm afraid - Imports would be considered tho. Where's the best place to find a nice Z if autotrader's are all dogs?

 

I gather for sale on this forum could be a good idea? Also, how do I tell if it's a dog bearing in mind my ignorance as far as mechanicals (and Zs themselves) is concerned (The faqs great but I don't really trust myself!!)? I would have the thought the AA or whoever would struggle to appraise such a specialist vehicle?

AA couldn't tell you the tyres from the steering wheel, as far as I am concerned. (They once diagnosed my alarm fob battery as the cause of my engine stalling. To be fair, they were close.....it was the PTU... :rolleyes: )

 

If you can, take someone off this forum who has the knowledge and expertise already to know what to look out for, like smoke from the exhausts - different colours mean different things...ie White - condensation - ok, blue/black - oil - NOT ok...

 

For an older car, you're looking at higher mileage anyway and decent UK TT Manuals are VERY hard to come by...trust me! :D

 

Good, regular servicing is worth its own weight in gold.

 

HTH

Anita.

Originally posted by Icecool

Gotta be a manual I'm afraid - Imports would be considered tho. Where's the best place to find a nice Z if autotrader's are all dogs?

 

LOL!! I got my car from the Autotrader. its the cleanest one i saw, very well looked after, FSH etc.

 

oh, & have i mentioned its a UK manual? :D

Hi Ben.

 

I think you have already made up your mind you want one so go and get one, you won't regret it.

 

1) Drive the long way home, you'll love the exprerience.

 

2) You can learn, there is lots of help on here when needed and also from US sites etc. Other than that all cars need to be fixed at some point.

You have a bike don't you to get to work on if need be?

 

3) Yes insurance is high so try going for a uk car and not modding it (very hard not to).

 

4) Just look around and wait for the right one, it's worth it.

 

But most of all you only live once, so enjoy it. Once you get one it will turn into your way of life. It's more than a car. You look at the people on here.:)

Many thanks for all the comments everyone - v helpful. Glad to hear that not all Autotrader Z's are tosh - they seem to have a fair few each week.

 

I think Devil has hit the nail on the head - I just needed some pushing and reassurance:p

 

Paul - is your uk manual Z for sale!!!!:) :)

 

I've never come across such a welcoming family of people as on this forum - spread the love guys!!

 

Ben

 

PS Anyone know anybody around the midlands (I live in Cheltenham, saw a white Z in Gloucester the other day - nice!) who might be willing to aid me in my quest to ensure the Z I go for is tip-top as Ajay suggests?

"I've never come across such a welcoming family of people as on this forum"

 

Ah, too kind.

 

Good luck with finding your Z, be patient and the right one will turn up. ANY you don't feel sure about-trust your instincts and walk away.

 

Would help you out looking at one but bit of a distance away!

Not all Autotrader ones are dogs. Just some of them when you look at them you can tell that they aint right, plus seem to cheap to be true. If you look there regulary there are ones that have been there for months and they are the ones that you can tell are bad if they have been there for so long.

Insist on lots of history with your car.

 

I got my insurance from http://www.a-plan.co.uk but with all insurers they are cheapest for one person but not the next.

 

 

As for the repairs, a new clutch cost me £700 fitted about 4 months ago. I must admit it was an uprated cluch, but was only about £70 more than a Nissan clutch.

 

 

Stuart

Ive got a pearl white 1990 TT Auto for sale and would consider a part exchange with a VTR as my son is looking for a car.

 

If you are interested, please let me know and I will send you details.

Hi Icecool,

I'm in exactly the same situation as you, except I'm wanting to rid my VTS for a Z :)

 

I'm worried about how long I'll have to wait to find a good one as Zs are so rare round Bristol, (1 for sale within 40miles and I think it's overpriced)

I was thinking of buying a cheap(ish) one for around £4-5k and if there's any money left from the sale of my VTS...(yeah right) I'll put that aside towards my "fit-it fund".

Are there any good TTs for that sort of money, (not really fussy about Auto or manual, UK or Jap as long as it doesn't go bang on me!) or am I better off spending more on a newer car.

 

The insurance is reasonable for me, 0nly £40 more than the VTS!!!

:eek:

And petrol cost is not to bad as I only do around 4k a year.

I'll get the car serviced every six months or 2000 miles but I don't want it have problems from the previous owner.

 

Oh the excitement....Dunno if it's a good idea or a bad one getting a Z instead of my VTS, but I can't stop myself :D

I have a feeling whatever happens with a Z it's going to be fun :D

 

Good luck on finding your car mate

 

:D

Originally posted by Icecool

 

Paul - is your uk manual Z for sale!!!!:) :)

 

Nope!! :D

david

 

Thanks for the offer - buying from someone who has a genuine interest in the car would be really comforting, but as I mention, I'm really looking for a manual.

 

I hope you find a nice VTR for your son - I can't recommend it highly enough if you want something which will provide a safe introduction to enthusiast motoring. It has a bit of poke for a 1.6 (due to lightness), looks fantastic in Citroen's metallic blue (like mine!), let's you know exactly what's happening at the wheels and is cheap to buy and run! Just make sure he realises that backing off the throttle mid bend in a fwd car with good suspension will force the back to step out as the weight transfers to the front of the car!!:D

 

I'm sure Erik will back me up on all that - in fact his VTS might even have the power to pull the skin off a rice pudding in addition!!! Actually I test drove a VTS about 6 months ago and couldn't feel much of a diff cf the VTR (except right at the top end of the rev range (that's 16V for you!) But the handling is just sublime, right Erik?

 

Having said all that - Go for the Z Erik!!! I'm in Bristol on Tuesday nite for a work do - maybe see you there (might drive my saxo!)?!

Hi bud,

Yes the Saxos do suffer from lift-off oversteer, changing throttle position mid bend is not advisable unless you like going backwards over roundabouts! :p

They look good, handle well and the VTR is torquey at low revs so good fun to drive in a forgiving way, the VTS doesn't do much till you hit 5000rpm, then it goes like a beastie till 7000+ rpm.

The VTS when in skilled hands will see off a lot of "fast" cars :P

It's easily comparable to Audi TT 180hp, and Focus ST170s and NA Zs, they'll also do OK against Williams Clios and 172s.

Not a Z TT though!

:D :D :D

The only thing is with the extra power they are even more likely to go backwards over roundabouts!

Hence the group 14 insurance!! :eek:

They are also often driven by the "backwards cap" brigade which is one of the reasons I'm selling mine and buying a Z.

 

The other problem is after I have owned a VTR and VTS for about two years they are cheap and tend to rattle themselves to bits, espec when lowered like mine.

You soon get bored of the performance with even the VTS and there's no comforts like Air con, leather or cruise control.

Even the VTR doesn't have ABS as standard, which with a 930kg car with near 100hp is suicide!!! :eek:

 

 

The only thing is I think the price of an engine rebuild on a Z would probably buy half a Saxo!

 

 

Still want to be a Z owner though :cool:

 

As for your comments about driving so few miles...Don't do it!!!

It's bad enough in a VTS when the engine is cold let alone a 10yr old+ Turbo car.

If you only do a couple of miles the car won't get upto temp and you're not going to have alot of oil going round all those components under the bonnet.

If you thrash it then...Things will die very quickly :(

That's why although it's only two miles to my work, I drive the long way to warm the engine and I never thrash the VTS till the oil temp is up to temp.

Very frustrating, but it won't last long otherwise, imagine an older car like the z...

bought mine from autotrader but waited for ages as i wanted a manual uktt,i also wanted to buy from a dealer,and im so glad i did,paid extra money for a pukka warranty as the free one covered f$%k all,cus not long after i bought it the rad split,then the water pump went n was all covered n didnt cost a penny,since then its been fast n fun best thing ive ever done,spent a fair bit on mods now n it goes like a dream,so happy hunting n buy from a dealer n make sure u get loads of history mine came with a big folder full of everything u could imagine just what i needed.............

I know you say you are not that bothered about the MPG too and from work. But when you have spent £25 on petrol and you realise that you havent been anywhere it will pi$s you off a little. Especially when you realise that it would have only cost you £10 in your old car.

 

Have you been in a Z TT? The acceleration is different class to what you used to. I see of VTS and VTR with out trying. I pull off slight more than normal can I can see the Saxo next to me really trying. LOL

 

Stuart

It's easily comparable to Audi TT 180hp, and Focus ST170s and NA Zs, they'll also do OK against Williams Clios and 172s.

 

This is possibly the most hilarious thing i have heard on here, unbelievable, a girlie shopping car taking on any of above mentioned would be a joke roflmao

Originally posted by gavo

It's easily comparable to Audi TT 180hp, and Focus ST170s and NA Zs, they'll also do OK against Williams Clios and 172s.

 

This is possibly the most hilarious thing i have heard on here, unbelievable, a girlie shopping car taking on any of above mentioned would be a joke roflmao

 

thats just what I thought when i read it Gavo :D :rolleyes:

 

not wanting to get into a "slagging off other car" debate, but the Saxo dont even come close to the above.

 

i see gavo's got a NA zed, watch out for shopping trollies Gavo!!! :D :D :rolleyes:

 

ps i frequently beat McLaren F1's in my TT :D :D

If the power and handling of a Citroen shopping hatch frightens you...then just wait until you try a TT Z on a wet roundabout when the turbos kick in!:D

This is possibly the most hilarious thing i have heard on here, unbelievable, a girlie shopping car taking on any of above mentioned would be a joke roflmao

 

 

__________________

 

 

 

Not meaning to be insulting but try checking your facts before you insult people's intelligence ;)

 

Most figures from EVO

 

Saxo VTS

0-60 7.6

 

Audi TT 180hp

7.4

 

Williams Clio

7.6

 

Clio 172

7.1

 

 

From memory

ST170

7.5?

 

N/A ZX

7.5?

 

 

 

So yes the French shopping trolley will give the above cars a run for their money off the mark.

The VTS and 106GTi is one of the most underestimated hot-hatches on the road, don't mistake them for slower badged up VTRs etc...

 

A TT Z will slaughter any of the above cars so hard it's funny...

That's one of the reasons I want to buy one :)

 

The other is the Saxo tends to break when it hits potholes and bumps, the Z shouldn't.

You also can't get leather and air con in a Saxo...

And I think the Z is one of the most stunning looking peices of machinery I have ever laid eyes on :D

 

 

P.S. Why is it only £40 more to insure Z TT over a VTS?

 

I hope small mindedness and ignorance on this forum aren't the norm?

Whilst these comments have been sent in response to Erik's post rather than my own, I feel I should reply on his behalf as a fellow owner:

 

I think (hope!) Erik was not alluding to the Saxo's straight line speed (which is still reasonable for a 'shopping car' due to the car's weight or lack therof) but its ability to go around corners quicker than you might imagine. I haven't had the pleasure of driving any of the cars listed in his post, but as he says, many ignorant drivers of such style-over-substance cars as the Audi TT are simply unable to explore the potential of their vehicles.

 

I should mention here that in my humble vtr I once managed to stick with a mitsubishi gto (unlikely to have been a turbo, methinks :)) over several miles of twisty b-road. On every short straight he would pull away, but he simply couldn't carry speed through the corners.

 

Have I ever driven a TT Z - no - and if the acceleration isn't different class to the Saxo, I will be extremely worried!!! Why am I thinking of buying the car!!??? :rolleyes:

 

Of course the Saxo would get pasted every time against any of the cars listed in a straight line, and I hope that the same would apply in the twisty stuff if you put competent drivers in each. In my experience, however (and perhaps Erik's), this cannot always be said of some of the idiots out there.

 

girlie shopping car

 

Of course - everyone is entitled to their opinion, however wrong they may be;) ! I wonder how many people would consider an na Z the 'girlie' option compared to the full-blown TT experience?!:D

(I realise I have no leg to stand on driving a VTR rather than a VTS!:D , it's just a bit of fun)