2016 topic...interesting

[JeffTT]

My Portuguese friends and neighbour think's the UK has gone bonkers! and some canadians I spoke with the other day were equally amused, that said they asked if English was still the dominant language or not, which was a whole different subject..... or was it?

Edited September 12, 2019 by JeffTT

[AndrewG]

I work for a German company and totally agree with that! It actually becomes the source of jokes and laughter when discussing with German colleagues!

 

Do they understand the Target2 liabilities their country has - they would certainly need a sense of humour if that blows up.

[znut]

Couldnt agree more, I am against Brexit, but we have completely embarrased ourselves as a nation. Our nation is on the world stage with everyone watching, what kind of example have we set? Three years, three prime minsters, MPs acting like three year olds.... Who will want to do business/trade with us now? I am so sick of hearing about brexit, my wife and I have banned it in the house. It has destroyed this country, people are so polarised now, that they will hate you for no good reason, other than you didnt vote the way they did. I spent the first four months of this year living in Germany, so I had a GB sticker on the car (blue with yellow stars around the GB bit), I get people flashing at me and middle fingers and alsorts... Honestly we have lost as a populace; the MPs, the money men, the illuminati, whatever you want to call them have won. They now have a populace that is under-educated, a press that controls peoples beliefs, a populace that is so deeply divided by each other and will believe anything. If it wasn't for us being 6 years into the 7 year process for getting my wifes citizenship, we would have left by now for a sensible country like North Korea...

 

Wow that's just the thing i am dreading as end of this month i will be driving to Milan through Germany. Told the wife to get a EU looking GB sticker so i don't have to repaint the van when i get back:lol:

[Stephen]

Wow that's just the thing i am dreading as end of this month i will be driving to Milan through Germany. Told the wife to get a EU looking GB sticker so i don't have to repaint the van when i get back:lol:

 

I’ve been three times in the last couple of years, to France, Germany and Italy. No ones said a thing. So maybe you, like me will be lucky? The only trouble I’ve got in was with the Yellow Jackets, who was burning pallets and blocking a round about, was like something out of a war film!

[TheRealNips]

Wow that's just the thing i am dreading as end of this month i will be driving to Milan through Germany. Told the wife to get a EU looking GB sticker so i don't have to repaint the van when i get back[emoji38]

I should point out that the comments I got are from UK drivers after returning from Germany, never had any problems in Germany. I was in my zed so actually got a lot of compliments and people taking pictures!

 

Sent from some app that I don't know how to use!

[znut]

I should point out that the comments I got are from UK drivers after returning from Germany, never had any problems in Germany. I was in my zed so actually got a lot of compliments and people taking pictures!

 

Sent from some app that I don't know how to use!

 

Yea when i tour on my bikes i get nothing but humanity and friendship, that goes for most if not all the European countrys and its only from my house to Dover that i face simple minded politcal views and aggresive territorial habits:crying::D ....Roll on some kind of normality back in this country.

[JeffTT]

Yea when i tour on my bikes i get nothing but humanity and friendship, that goes for most if not all the European countrys and its only from my house to Dover that i face simple minded politcal views and aggresive territorial habits:crying::D ....Roll on some kind of normality back in this country.

 

Well that is very poignant, couple of years back I drove back for a family thing and had no issues in Portugal or Spain, some 800 miles of carefree driving, hopped on to the 23 hour ferry from Santander to Portsmouth for a relaxing crossing been looked after and entertained well, all relaxed.

 

Arrived in Portsmouth and drove off the ferry to the passport control and despite the left hand drive vehicle etc. was waved through with little issue,then as you exit the port onto the M275 quickly joining the M27 it was literally within under a minute was seemingly surrounded by angry commuters jostling and barging across lanes beeping horns... it was came flooding back to me why I hated driving in the UK and left near on 5 years ago !

 

Road rage is a UK thing imported from the US ( Blame US tv progs ), in Pt it simply does not exist, that said saw a nasty and potentially dangerous bit of driving the other day on the outskirts of Albufeira, the driver was clearly incensed by a poor signal or manoeuvre by another driver. His answer was to drive like a lunatic, lane swapping and eventually cutting up the "offender " at a roundabout whilst gestating out of the window......... this is when I saw the idiots UK number plate and was like ..... ah ha !!

 

 

Jeff

[znut]

Well that is very poignant, couple of years back I drove back for a family thing and had no issues in Portugal or Spain, some 800 miles of carefree driving, hopped on to the 23 hour ferry from Santander to Portsmouth for a relaxing crossing been looked after and entertained well, all relaxed.

 

Arrived in Portsmouth and drove off the ferry to the passport control and despite the left hand drive vehicle etc. was waved through with little issue,then as you exit the port onto the M275 quickly joining the M27 it was literally within under a minute was seemingly surrounded by angry commuters jostling and barging across lanes beeping horns... it was came flooding back to me why I hated driving in the UK and left near on 5 years ago !

 

Road rage is a UK thing imported from the US ( Blame US tv progs ), in Pt it simply does not exist, that said saw a nasty and potentially dangerous bit of driving the other day on the outskirts of Albufeira, the driver was clearly incensed by a poor signal or manoeuvre by another driver. His answer was to drive like a lunatic, lane swapping and eventually cutting up the "offender " at a roundabout whilst gestating out of the window......... this is when I saw the idiots UK number plate and was like ..... ah ha !!

 

eff

 

:lol::lol: Funny but sad at the same time. I have 2 Italian lads currently working for me and they both cant believe the antics they see on a twice daily commute getting to and from the work sites on our roads and made more Ironic by reports from these 2 Italians given there homeland so called driving reputation:D

[TonyB]

So the wishy washy Lib Dems have said they will Withdraw the Article 50 declaration if they win an electioon because that would be the democratic thing to do

 

Well then why not say their election victory doesn't count because that would be same !

[Stephen]

So the wishy washy Lib Dems have said they will Withdraw the Article 50 declaration if they win an electioon because that would be the democratic thing to do

 

Well then why not say their election victory doesn't count because that would be same !

 

Whilst I don’t agree with the premise, that a second referdum is required I could understand the Liberal Democracts pushing that way. The notion that they would seek to retract article 50 and stop the U.K. leaving despite or without a vote, simply on a general election victory as stated by Ms Swinson is bonkers.

When you seek to obstruct democracy because you know best and you have members who object to basic modern accepted morality such as homosexuality you really are left wondering where liberality or democracy come into it.

[RichardS]

Whilst I don’t agree with the premise, that a second referdum is required I could understand the Liberal Democracts pushing that way. The notion that they would seek to retract article 50 and stop the U.K. leaving despite or without a vote, simply on a general election victory as stated by Ms Swinson is bonkers.

When you seek to obstruct democracy because you know best and you have members who object to basic modern accepted morality such as homosexuality you really are left wondering where liberality or democracy come into it.

 

I agree with you Steve - and would like to say that I think Ms Swinson is definitely bonkers.....!! Vince Cable was credible in his time, but with Ms Swinson in charge, the Lib Dems have become the new raving looney bunch. Just IMHO, I might add.....:wink:

[Stephen]

I agree with you Steve - and would like to say that I think Ms Swinson is definitely bonkers.....!! Vince Cable was credible in his time, but with Ms Swinson in charge, the Lib Dems have become the new raving looney bunch. Just IMHO, I might add.....:wink:

 

Your memory on the topic is undoubtedly better than mine, I do seem to recall that originally membership of the EEC was not preferred by the left, as they were worried about its capitalist and federalist components and that it would actually degrade the quality of life for the working class. There mind was only swayed by reinforcement by the EEC that it’s real purpose was to create peace in Europe.

[TonyB]

I think the whole europoean project is bonkers. It would be far better to go back to a trading bloc as was the EEC rather than a political dream of an EU

 

I believe it will all end in tears, because of inherent failures, not least failures of democratic selection of the upper echelons of the EU

[TheRealNips]

Whilst I don’t agree with the premise, that a second referdum is required I could understand the Liberal Democracts pushing that way. The notion that they would seek to retract article 50 and stop the U.K. leaving despite or without a vote, simply on a general election victory as stated by Ms Swinson is bonkers.

When you seek to obstruct democracy because you know best and you have members who object to basic modern accepted morality such as homosexuality you really are left wondering where liberality or democracy come into it.

 

One could argue that; people voting for the Lib Dems (who are basing their manifesto on Remaining and are basically the Remain Party), would be a democratic way of leaving. If enough people vote in the Remain party, then enough people must want to remain. It would also be true in reverse, if enough people vote for the Brexit party and they win, then democratically enough people still want to leave.

 

If a party is stating catergorically that they will reverse/continue the process and enough people vote them in, then how is that not democratic?

[Stephen]

One could argue that; people voting for the Lib Dems (who are basing their manifesto on Remaining and are basically the Remain Party), would be a democratic way of leaving. If enough people vote in the Remain party, then enough people must want to remain. It would also be true in reverse, if enough people vote for the Brexit party and they win, then democratically enough people still want to leave.

 

If a party is stating catergorically that they will reverse/continue the process and enough people vote them in, then how is that not democratic?

 

Fair comments but there’s more to consider in my opinion.Firstly Brexit isn’t just the result of the referendum. It’s the result of;

A government in 2015 being elected with a majority and a manefesto to seek revision and if it could not be found to a satisfactory point a referendum.

A referendum result of 52% to leave.

The election of a subsequent government that supports the result, a minority admittedly by of those who voted the lions share, circa 80% went to parties, including Labour who pledged in thier manifesto up hold the result.

Then of corse a representative democracy who’s parliament voted 6-1 to support the wishes of their constituents and the result of said referendum.

 

Due to the changing face of British politics gaining 30% of the vote in a GE would see that party having a majority, this is a lower percentage than that held by Theresa May’s minority government and is why Boris is keen to drive an election and gain a majority (that’s the plan anyway) so effectively article 50 could be retracted and the whole process stopped by a 30% “majority”. At which point the concerns raised by those who are Eurosceptic, some of which may not even believe in leaving but rather reform will have achieved nothing. Personally I would say there is a larger percentage of Eurosceptics than Leavers as such.

 

Simply painting those who do not share your world vision as far right extremists is both disingenuous and dangerous. Sadly there is an extreme version of this “Liberal Democracy” that believes that they are righteous and “progress” as they see it in thier direction is the only way forward.

[Stephen]

I should add, that should a Landslide for a pro remain party be achieved and I mean landslide, where more than 50% of the nation voted for pro remain parties then that would change things. At that point the public should be asked again.

[Stephen]

I think the whole europoean project is bonkers. It would be far better to go back to a trading bloc as was the EEC rather than a political dream of an EU

 

I believe it will all end in tears, because of inherent failures, not least failures of democratic selection of the upper echelons of the EU

 

There’s the inherent issue though Tony, for the UK it’s a trading partnership for the EU it’s building a community, a superstate. There’s an ideological miss match is what the plan is. There’s a reason we don’t have the Euro, aren’t in Schengan and have a few little opt outs. I wonder how many Brits actually want to see full co-operation and the State of England as apposed to the Nation.

[AndrewG]

If a party is stating catergorically that they will reverse/continue the process and enough people vote them in, then how is that not democratic?

 

Because the country has already voted on the matter in 2016. The (Il)liberal (Un)democrats will never accept the democratic will of the people. In 2010

they campaigned for an In-Out referendum on our membership of the EU. In 2016 they fought and lost that referendum that they had demanded. Now

they are demanding the referendum result is ignored.

 

If they lose the election (a refendum in all but name on Brexit) they will continue to campaign (read obstruct) at every opportunity to overturn the

democratic result. It is worth remembering that their new leader has gone on the record to say that in the event of a second referendum again voting

leave, then the party will not accept the result and continue campaigning (read obstruct) to remain.

 

If we believe that this country is a democracy then country needs political parties and MPs who respect the will of the people when asked and don't try

and pick and choose what votes they support.

[Stephen]

Because the country has already voted on the matter in 2016. The (Il)liberal (Un)democrats will never accept the democratic will of the people. In 2010

they campaigned for an In-Out referendum on our membership of the EU. In 2016 they fought and lost that referendum that they had demanded. Now

they are demanding the referendum result is ignored.

 

If they lose the election (a refendum in all but name on Brexit) they will continue to campaign (read obstruct) at every opportunity to overturn the

democratic result. It is worth remembering that their new leader has gone on the record to say that in the event of a second referendum again voting

leave, then the party will not accept the result and continue campaigning (read obstruct) to remain.

 

If we believe that this country is a democracy then country needs political parties and MPs who respect the will of the people when asked and don't try

and pick and choose what votes they support.

 

Interestingly I was listening to some Politicians on the radio a few months ago arguing over what Representative Democracy meant, some arguing that they were elected to represent the wishes of the constituents and some that they are there to represent the best interests of the people based on thier appointment as a learneded person. This is a problem as far as I’m concerned and just shows how some of them political establishment still believe that it’s pre 1918 and that the common person is not in charge.

[RichardS]

There’s the inherent issue though Tony, for the UK it’s a trading partnership for the EU it’s building a community, a superstate. There’s an ideological miss match is what the plan is. There’s a reason we don’t have the Euro, aren’t in Schengan and have a few little opt outs. I wonder how many Brits actually want to see full co-operation and the State of England as apposed to the Nation.

 

Because the country has already voted on the matter in 2016. The (Il)liberal (Un)democrats will never accept the democratic will of the people. In 2010

they campaigned for an In-Out referendum on our membership of the EU. In 2016 they fought and lost that referendum that they had demanded. Now

they are demanding the referendum result is ignored.

 

If they lose the election (a refendum in all but name on Brexit) they will continue to campaign (read obstruct) at every opportunity to overturn the

democratic result. It is worth remembering that their new leader has gone on the record to say that in the event of a second referendum again voting

leave, then the party will not accept the result and continue campaigning (read obstruct) to remain.

 

If we believe that this country is a democracy then country needs political parties and MPs who respect the will of the people when asked and don't try

and pick and choose what votes they support.

 

Yup - I agree also....