Ok, I'm painting my car with cellulose paint next month, in a gazebo - everything as usual on a strict budget...

 

My Zed is primed and rubbed down, and ready for the base coat. I've been praticing on other parts - nose panel, targa stips, door handles etc. I'm getting the hang of spraying, finding it annoying how every little imperfection shows up with the base coat - why can I still see score marks from sanding, even after rubbing down the primer with 600 grit?!

 

I don't plan to use clear coat, due to the extra cost, and the added risk of screwing up at the end. It should also be easier to respray anything I'm unhappy with at the end.

 

The paint I'm using is this, which dries glossy -

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1L-Mystery-Purple-Cellulose-Metallic-Gloss-Car-Paint-Custom-Colour-Celly-/330405867444?hash=item4cedb96fb4

 

Now, I understand, from all my research, that I'm meant to rub down my finished paint with 1200 / 1400 grit, then use a cutting compund / paste to eliminate the scratches, polishing to a glossy finish. I've tried this on the targa end strips and it just leaves dull finish, the other freshly painted untouched targa strip looks way better. So why do I need to use a cutting compund, it looks fine the way it is. Can't I just seal the fresh paint with wax? If I has orange peel I could understand, but it's already a smooth finish.

 

Any advice would be great.

 

firstly you can see scratches because you need to use a finer grade wet & dry, i always use 1200 - 1500 grit to get it smooth, always use primer filler to help fill imperfections.

 

i normally rub down then fine grit, 3 coats of primer, wet flat again then 1 more coat of primer, 3 top coat wet flat then final 3, lot of paint but gives a good finish.

 

they always say to compound 2 pac paint as the lacquer can dry rough, ideal you should be using a single pack paint, base coat is intended to have a clear coat on the top, but don'y use cellulose lacquer it will go white flakey and look naff in about 2 years

firstly you can see scratches because you need to use a finer grade wet & dry, i always use 1200 - 1500 grit to get it smooth, always use primer filler to help fill imperfections.

 

Thanks, I am using high build filler primer, but you're saying use 1200 - 1500 grit on the primer? I read somewhere that going above 800 means the base coat wont have a good key.

If I was you I use stoper over the repairs an inperfection then dust coat over primer with black paint then flatten with 600 on a rubber block this way your see your low spots the black paint will stay until it's flat when it comes to flat an polish 1200 on a rubber block then mop with compound machine glaze then wax

If I was you I use stoper over the repairs an inperfection then dust coat over primer with black paint then flatten with 600 on a rubber block this way your see your low spots the black paint will stay until it's flat when it comes to flat an polish 1200 on a rubber block then mop with compound machine glaze then wax

 

Cheers, I think I'm going to have to do this with the tailgate, as I think I still have some low spots (where the spoiler used to bolt on). I really thought I'd finished with tailgate, it's been an ordeal. It looks fine in primer, but I just know the base coat is going to highlight issues.

As i understand it, unless you are using a 2k paint, you will need a clear lacquer and its the lacquer you colour sand and buff to the high gloss, you would end up with an orange peel effect at any stage of basecoat or 2k and you cut and polish to a gloss finish.

 

I tried doing too many coats on my first attempt at spraying to get a glossy finish, but as the coats were too heavy, they eventually sag and if too heavy the solvents dont escape enough between coats and ended up with a slightly milky look to the paint or still soft after drying.

 

As suggested above 800 -1000 on the primer before base coat and hit the top coat/lacquer with 1200-1500 grit then compound and polish.

I'd always lacquer cellulose if I HAD to use cellulose. I personally hate the stuff. I am great at spraying with it and finishing, but it really is only ideal for small parts and minor repairs only. I know you're doing this to a budget, but I wouldn't use the stuff to paint a car. It's cheap and it will show after not very long as it has little in the way of UV stabilisers in it; it fades super quickly and goes cloudy.

Oh, looks like I'm going to have to get some lacquer based on what your're all saying. I always knew I should, I just convince myself I was ok without. I've only been rubbing down with 600 grit, so glad I can go finer. One but of the reasons I didn't go with 2K as I'm working in a gazebo, and I'd read that the stuff is nasty. I'm pretty sure I'm already annoying the neighbours, I think toxic paint may push them over the edge. :)

If you're painting it straight colour black white so on I would use 2 k solid paint if you're going to based coat your need to clear coat it I would use 2k again

I know you are on a budget mate, and its going to be hard to convince you not to use cellulose however, you are possibly about to still spend a few pennies on something that in my mind will be false economy. I was a painter by trade and never would you use single pack cellulose on a vehicle other than on a chassis of a lorry or similar.

 

As Si has said, in short it will not stand the test of time and will degrade relatively quickly compared to 2K. If you are still going to go down this road consider a compatible lacquer to help protect the cellulose base coat. As for the sanding, paint should cover 1200 grit no problem, but as the metallic parts will gather and darken in deep scratches I would even consider 1800-2400 grit on those areas (the paint will stick, it is still 'keyed').

 

Anyway, good luck mate and updates please.

Oh, looks like I'm going to have to get some lacquer based on what your're all saying. I always knew I should, I just convince myself I was ok without. I've only been rubbing down with 600 grit, so glad I can go finer. One but of the reasons I didn't go with 2K as I'm working in a gazebo, and I'd read that the stuff is nasty. I'm pretty sure I'm already annoying the neighbours, I think toxic paint may push them over the edge. :)

 

By the way, cellulose is no Angel should you be breathing it in. A good mask a plenty of ventilation and 2K all the way. The other bonus is that 2K hardens quicker as it is a faster chemical reaction.

Oh, looks like I'm going to have to get some lacquer based on what your're all saying. I always knew I should, I just convince myself I was ok without. I've only been rubbing down with 600 grit, so glad I can go finer. One but of the reasons I didn't go with 2K as I'm working in a gazebo, and I'd read that the stuff is nasty. I'm pretty sure I'm already annoying the neighbours, I think toxic paint may push them over the edge. :)

 

Yes 2k is toxic when mixed, the paint itself isnt, its the 2k hardener and thinners that is and you should use an air fed mask and paint suit when spraying and ideally in a proper paint booth, however the guy who sprayed mine had neither and is still alive lol.

It does smell horrible and does linger for a while, so you may be better off going for a lacquer over your base coat, less smelly lol and safer with a charcoal mask

 

2k is quicker and a good hardy finish

Thanks everyone, I appreciate all the responses. I've been rubbing down all wrong, next weekend is going to be a busy one. I'm going to have to continue with the cellulose I'm affraid. I'm littlerally ready to go with it (other than more rubbing down with finer grit), I just need the time off work which is October. Fingers crossed the weather stays in double figures. I guess 2k could be an option down the road, maybe with a TT who knows. I'll update you all after October, hopfully with succesful pics of my resprayed Zed (bumpers next year).

Hey,so pics of how its going....which isn't terrible, but perhaps October ins't the time to paint a car outside...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's going ok, there are some marks and a run I want to take care of before further coats and then clear.

 

Genrally I'm happy, despite rubbing down with 800, then 1000, I think I should have re-primed the whole car, then rubbed down again, as some score marks are showing through the paint...I couldn't see these before the base coat, I thought everything was perfect.

 

The battle continues tomorrow.

Edited October 16, 201510 yr by MasterCookieman

It's all about the prep, full marks for tackling this yourself mate its not an easy task .

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with celly paint, what do you think we used before 2k came along?? If you have marks still coming through its because you have not got the coverage, you can go as low as p400. . You should use a top grade slow thinner too, if the solvent dries too fast you can lose the gloss finish, and theres no need to lacquer.

How much paint did you use?

A Z should use approx 7.5 litres to cover effectively. 2k paint is denser than celly and covers easier, so uses a lot less less. Flatting would be with a G7 compound followed by T-Cut polish with a machine to give the final effect.

I have, or had, 5 litres, but that mixed 50/50 with thinners, gives 10. Unless you mean pre mix? I am slightly concerned that I've used half the paint already and still have bumpers to do, which I plan to do next year...probably an aftermarket front bumper, don't know about the rear yet. I have 5 litres of clear coat, but only plan to apply this to the outside of the car, again 50/50 mix.

 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Oh, I'm using a good super flow thinners.

 

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Ok, long story short, as I got closer to the bottom of the tin of paint, I realise there was a lot of metallic sludge - basically metalic flakes in the bottom. I had mixed the paint, clearly not well enough. So I suddenly had about 2 litres of paint with enough flakes for 5 litres....I give the car it's final spray, of course a far more metallic one this time.

 

Anyway, I've been left with the following finish, and due to run issues I've had (still having) I'm wondering if I really want to take the risk of applying clear coat. Can I rub the base coat down with 1200 - 1500 and then polish with G7, or do I HAVE to apply to clear coat to get the mirrow (ish) finish? I've read somewhere that you can't rub down a single metallic base coat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 201510 yr by MasterCookieman

Its clear to me and no doubt many other members that you are making a huge effort with this.

I would like to help you by making some comments and offer advice.

However I fear it might look impolite or heavy handed if I keyboard it.

So if you text me when you are able to talk I will call you and try to help.

I have done a fair bit of painting on a decent but non profesional level

07778 411568. Anytime is good for me.

And Im happy with my phone number in public so please dont edit it out anyone.

Its clear to me and no doubt many other members that you are making a huge effort with this.

I would like to help you by making some comments and offer advice.

However I fear it might look impolite or heavy handed if I keyboard it.

So if you text me when you are able to talk I will call you and try to help.

I have done a fair bit of painting on a decent but non profesional level

07778 411568. Anytime is good for me.

And Im happy with my phone number in public so please dont edit it out anyone.

 

Cheers, I will, probabaly tomorrow. Though you do have me slightly worried that I've screwed up big style, lol.

 

I've watched plenty of videos on how to paint, it's different when you're actually doing it though, and so easy to put too much paint down.

 

I know I wish I hadn't gone with metallic as making sure it all merges together is tricky!

Your paint coverage looks ok from the pics, but do not use anything less than 2000 grit wet and dry, cellulose is not as forgiving or as thick as 2k paint. Use a rubber block with plenty of soap and water to flat out the runs, if you have to, from a bucket, but preferably use a plastic spray bottle with a soapy solution in. The soap lubricates the paper so as not to drag across the paint and dig in, marking the paint. Follow the path of the run, not across it, using plenty of water and check it regularly.

:bow: Full respect to you for doing this yourself, in a gazebo, in autumn, for the first time and not doing a too bad job of it!

 

You will need a clear coat or it will always look "home sprayed". Even a bad clear coat will look better than none IMO.

 

Crack on mate, if you don't try you don't learn or get better.

I used to do bodywork many many years ago and it's sooo much more difficult than most people first imagine!

 

That looks suspiciously like one of those colour-flip TVR colours to me... am I right...?

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with celly paint, what do you think we used before 2k came along??

 

Before 2k came along we had acrylic paints. Cellulose wasn't used on manufactured vehicles after the late 50s and before that, enamel paints. Both of which are far more durable than cellulose.

 

Cellulose is 'ok', but doesn't contain any UV stabilisers and is very prone to weathering and has low chemical resistance.

:bow: Full respect to you for doing this yourself, in a gazebo, in autumn, for the first time and not doing a too bad job of it!

 

You will need a clear coat or it will always look "home sprayed". Even a bad clear coat will look better than none IMO.

 

Crack on mate, if you don't try you don't learn or get better.

 

Thanks! I improved quite a bit in the short time spraying the base coat. I have decided I do need to do the clear coat, I'll just have to be very careful! After watching a few youtube videos I think it will make a big difference to the finish, of course on the videos they make it look so easy and never have any issues.

 

I went over to check on my Zed after work today, as the wind took a disliking to my gazebo...anyway, the paint does actually look good, though it now has a few scratched from the gazebo collapsing.