Thought I should move this from the 'Journal' forum and update where the project is at. Wish I was at Coventry with everyone, but these things always take longer than anticipated, lol

 

20/01/2013

Having had the car for a few years now I have finally given in to the urge for more power.

 

The original engine in the car runs superbly only 66k miles with a proven Dyno run @ 357bhp, with boost jets and a uprated chip & air filter. Not bad at all for a 300ZX, but I was bitten by the bug and was set on going for more bhp and reliability, (I know why fiddle with it if it ain't broke). But having been lucky enough to have many nice high powered cars in recent years I wanted to keep the Zed long term and the engine is the first part of the project so it need's to be a good strong/reliable build.

 

After looking at various options of buying a part built engine form the US I decide to also keep my eyes peeled for the poteintial of purchasing an uncompleted project rebuild.

 

Back in March/April 2012 an ebay listing caught my eye regarding a nearly completed forged engine rebuild. The only problem with it was that the rebuild wasn't exactly completed by the most reputable of Zed engine builders known within the Zed world. In fact the seller had been caught up in horrific events where parts when missing, work was never finished and finally the garage was broken into and his engine was stolen. Retrieved from a nearby field 24 hours after going "missing". see here for a bit more http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showth...light=s+mochan

After talking with the seller for sometime we struck a deal and I waited for the day when the pallet with the engine would arrive.

 

It came with forged internals, Wiseco pistons, Eagle rods, ACL Duralite white metal bearings ARP main con rods and head bolts, Tomie 260 degree camshafts with solid lifters & harder springs, SARD 850cc injectors with a Border fuel rails/ new Turbo's, s/steel manifolds, new oil pump, heads polished, exhausts ports and valves shimed & lapped.

 

Didn't look all that great mind when it finally arrived to be honest, and I still had my doubts as to whether I had done the right thing in buying this.

 

 

 

After stripping down the engine as far I was prepared to take it anyway,

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't going to attempt to go much further, so I thought it would be best to get this done properly!

 

So a call was made to Jim @ PowerZed to arrange a date to get everything to him in order for him to work his magic.

Just looked at my messages, it looks like I'm not subbed so cannot reply. Thanks for getting in touch

 

Its sad to see us Guys aren't the only ones with issues. All I can do it say if you don't want to contribute the thread, message groover privately as I understand why you don't want to put anything on here.

while trying not to get involved.

 

Then don't.

When my HG went the first time round there were lots of promises made, by both parties concerned. About who would pay what and contribute time/labour to the rebuild. Once the engine was rebuilt and after many months of waiting/text/phone calls I wasn't getting anywhere. I was only asking for a date to get my car re-mapped. (in 1 month, 2 months, 3months time, so I could book a day off) We are all busy people with lots going in our work and home, so saying I'm busy or just ignoring you simply isn't good enough in my book.

 

I think that when you have your own business (and I have had by the way for 11years), the way in which you respond to issues and problems says a lot about the company and those who run it! Morals, I think is the word I'm looking for here. The engine builder and myself put our hands into our pockets and sorted out what we all agreed at the start, the mapper walked away from everything he promised that the offset.

Draw your own conclusions guys.

 

I'm sure there will be another side to the story :whistling: but without going into all the nitty gritty these are the simple facts.

 

Anyway my car made 626bhp, with the (un-mapable Selin Translator,) there were issues along the way last night, but all were eventually overcome. I was at tuners for 16hrs and left at 2:00am this morning. Just encase you're wondering, this was for a set price, no matter how long it took it was going to be done right.

 

The car is now a pleasure to drive, and that's exactly what I intend to do from now on. I cant wait to get the car to Jimmers sometime soon so he can have a go as well, I'm sure it will put a big grin on his face as it did mine on the drive home last night.

 

If anyone wants anymore details just PM me.

 

I've never said the Selin is "unmappable", that is ridiculous. I've mapped lots of cars with the Selin. I have also mapped a car to 621bhp with smaller GT28RS turbos and a single intake, as well as a road-going drift Zed to 613bhp on GTX2860s, so there are various ways to make that kind of power.

 

With regards to remapping your car, it was difficult to sort a suitable date where all 3 of us were free. Then you decided to take it elsewhere. I didn't walk away from the situation, I had travelled all the way down to Bristol to map your car when the issue had happened originally, due to a fuel supply issue from running a standard pump. Previous session cut short due to FPR issues. Incorrect components were used, I wasn't involved with that side of things. The agreement IIRC was there to be no cost for that session or a future session. I regularly have cars on my dyno for many hours where needed, also for a set price.

 

It has still taken 12 months for your car to be mapped (clutch issues, various other issues according to this thread), so I cannot see how the timescale has been due to myself.

Mmm... so tempted to get into this one! but must resist !

 

When more than one individual has similar bad experiences with the same trader who ever it is will always end up in flame wars, I know had enough of my own in the dark days, but the issue here is there is sooo much more going on, much that is known about and much that is not.

 

Of course any trader will want to defend his business be it a full garage with mass of customers, equipment and back up finances or as we have here the complete opposite!

 

General readers who have no idea what is going on will be left feeling confused, personally I am amazed its taken this long to get aired and rather than be looking at the owners who are speaking out as if making personal digs I congratulate them for bringing it to the attention of others....finally.

 

Jeff

Mmm... so tempted to get into this one! but must resist !

 

When more than one individual has similar bad experiences with the same trader who ever it is will always end up in flame wars, I know had enough of my own in the dark days, but the issue here is there is sooo much more going on, much that is known about and much that is not.

 

Of course any trader will want to defend his business be it a full garage with mass of customers, equipment and back up finances or as we have here the complete opposite!

 

General readers who have no idea what is going on will be left feeling confused, personally I am amazed its taken this long to get aired and rather than be looking at the owners who are speaking out as if making personal digs I congratulate them for bringing it to the attention of others....finally.

 

Jeff

 

 

What are you talking about, exactly?

Does anyone know how many did loose there engines?

Does anyone know how many did loose there engines?

 

On the dyno? Exactly NONE.

 

Apart from than big end bearing failure, I've never had any engine fail whilst mapping, other than Howard's. This ran dangerously lean within the space of a couple seconds, and as I wasn't driving the vehicle, it wasn't possible to catch it in time. To reiterate, it ran lean due to the standard 25 year old fuel pump that had not been renewed. In conjunction with 850cc injectors and larger fuel rail, they can struggle at 500bhp, let alone 600+.

 

Cars failing weeks/months/years down the line due to faulty components (most likely 25yr old fuel pumps), I'm not sure. The FPECU I have highlighted previously is one. Paul Benson's car was very close when it ran lean at TOTB (IIRC) - failing stock pump. Smoking cars with oil ingestion lowering the octane of the fuel, there's 3 I am aware of. You'll typically get ringland failure on 5 & 6.

 

My own car as well. I had piston #3 ringlands fail with a perfect vertical line. Started smoking before I pushed 570bhp through it. No detonation, just the limits of 130k mile cast pistons trying to deal with the pressures & temperature associated in the combustion chamber at 1.7 bar and 95bhp per cylinder. I thought it would be #5 as that was lowest compression originally, but in the end #3 piston was the weakest. To add to this, I was pushing 24° timing at the red line with standard manifolds. Still making power at stupid timing values. I know exactly what the VG can, and can't take.

 

In general for the VG:

AFRs at high load are kept to mid 11s for road cars, low 11s for drift & track cars or cars that have not been well looked after.

Timing values are lower than MBT (maximum brake torque) throughout the rev range (this has additional benefits as well as a sutable safety margin), so nowhere near the plateau where detonation can occur.

Cylinders 5 & 6 are always taken into consideration due to turbo placement and heat build up. The cars are mapped around these shortcomings.

 

Like I say, I have every single map and accompanying log files for each car. The 621bhp Zed I have mentioned did 50 full-bore logged dyno runs whilst investigating an issue. 20 map iterations.

I've never said the Selin is "unmappable", that is ridiculous. I've mapped lots of cars with the Selin. I have also mapped a car to 621bhp with smaller GT28RS turbos and a single intake, as well as a road-going drift Zed to 613bhp on GTX2860s, so there are various ways to make that kind of power.

 

With regards to remapping your car, it was difficult to sort a suitable date where all 3 of us were free. Then you decided to take it elsewhere. I didn't walk away from the situation, I had travelled all the way down to Bristol to map your car when the issue had happened originally, due to a fuel supply issue from running a standard pump. Previous session cut short due to FPR issues. Incorrect components were used, I wasn't involved with that side of things. The agreement IIRC was there to be no cost for that session or a future session. I regularly have cars on my dyno for many hours where needed, also for a set price.

 

It has still taken 12 months for your car to be mapped (clutch issues, various other issues according to this thread), so I cannot see how the timescale has been due to myself.

 

 

 

Yes and as you never bothered to give me any dates for this session, you in turn walked away from what you promised at the offset.

 

I would still be waiting for that 'free' session, which IIRC would not be free as you didn't have (or still don't?) your own dyno, so I would still have had to pay the going rate per hour for Dyno hire. Hence why I took it else where at a fixed rate, and a better understanding of tuning.

Plus and this is the main reason, you didn't seem to have a plan to address the Selin/stalling issues, (which I know was not just my car, but other members that you were tunning) and I could easily see me spending £65-75 per hour whilst you attempted to sort the problem. I know very well that you chased the issues blindly, with these cars, and the owners spent alot of money buying new parts, that had no positive effect on the issues.

 

When I first spoke to my current mapper, he said straight away what the possible causes could be and how he would address them, and the costs involved, as well as what options were available to me. At the end of the day I felt that you were out of your depth tbh. and didn't inspire any confidence in me, especially when I started to look elsewhere.

Incorrect components were used, I wasn't involved with that side of things[/i] as a professional don't you think that you could have mentioned that the parts used could be uprated? after all a £120 fuel pump is chicken feed in the scheme of things given the cost of other components in an engine build.

With regards to remapping your car, it was difficult to sort a suitable date where all 3 of us were free Funny how after weeks of chasing you for a date you suddenly wanted Jimmer there as well, to "sign off" on everything, I'm mean wtf? just in case it went pear shaped there would be someone else to blame, perhaps?

On the dyno? Exactly NONE.

 

This ran dangerously lean within the space of a couple seconds, and as I wasn't driving the vehicle, it wasn't possible to catch it in time. To reiterate, it ran lean due to the standard 25 year old fuel pump that had not been renewed. In conjunction with 850cc injectors and larger fuel rail, they can struggle at 500bhp, let alone 600+.

 

 

Look it wasn't Noels fault, he wasn't driving it, ......................................he was only mapping it! looking at the AFR's data etc, which has nothing to do with the car running lean :thumbdown:

Yes and as you never bothered to give me any dates for this session, you in turn walked away from what you promised at the offset.

 

I would still be waiting for that 'free' session, which IIRC would not be free as you didn't have (or still don't?) your own dyno, so I would still have had to pay the going rate per hour for Dyno hire. Hence why I took it else where at a fixed rate, and a better understanding of tuning.

Plus and this is the main reason, you didn't seem to have a plan to address the Selin/stalling issues, (which I know was not just my car, but other members that you were tunning) and I could easily see me spending £65-75 per hour whilst you attempted to sort the problem. I know very well that you chased the issues blindly, with these cars, and the owners spent alot of money buying new parts, that had no positive effect on the issues.

 

When I first spoke to my current mapper, he said straight away what the possible causes could be and how he would address them, and the costs involved, as well as what options were available to me. At the end of the day I felt that you were out of your depth tbh. and didn't inspire any confidence in me, especially when I started to look elsewhere.

 

Incorrect components were used, I wasn't involved with that side of things as a professional don't you think that you could have mentioned that the parts used could be uprated? after all a £120 fuel pump is chicken feed in the scheme of things given the cost of other components in an engine build.

 

With regards to remapping your car, it was difficult to sort a suitable date where all 3 of us were free Funny how after weeks of chasing you for a date you suddenly wanted Jimmer there as well, to "sign off" on everything, I'm mean wtf? just in case it went pear shaped there would be someone else to blame, perhaps?

 

I didn't build the car. Component choice and advice was nothing to do with me. I had zero input into that.

 

I requested Jimmer to be there in case of any issues, so they could be rectified. Simple. Exactly the same with the aforementioned 621bhp car. Major lean-running issue as the tank went below half-full after a full day on the dyno.

 

Look it wasn't Noels fault, he wasn't driving it, ......................................he was only mapping it! looking at the AFR's data etc, which has nothing to do with the car running lean

 

??

 

You have the data logs. The car ran lean incredibly quickly, hence it couldn't be caught in time. From the previous log, the injector pulsewidth was exactly the same value (set in the mapping process), yet it was providing a suitable AFR of mid 11. Again, simple. No point in twisting the meaning of my words. Yes, I was monitoring data, no I was not able to have the accelerator immediately released in time.

Edited May 4, 20169 yr by Noz

Good to see the 300Zx community has lost none of its spark. I post here very rarely but have seen the same arguments arise over the years.

Common causes to these flame wars seem to be around different and often unrealistic expectations, owners cutting corners, poor communication by traders and owners. Also owners wanting to get things done on the cheap or being in a rush for big power.

All I can say is that I have learned the hard way. Many years ago I was warned off from JeffTT's business when I knew a lot less about these cars, that was my mistake listening to a minority! It cost me in the end. Generally I will say that traders that specialise in Z's on here know that its their reputation at risk so want to do a good job but need to be paid the right price to do a proper job with these cars. Cutting corners will only end up in tears. It is even more complicated in the case of who is responsible for what when you have engines being built and then cars sent to a tuner. The engine builder may make other recommendations that are not taken onboard by the owner. Everyone would take a belt and braces approach with the benefit of hindsight but plenty of people cut corners and then look to blame someone else.

Generally if a honest business makes a mistake they put their hands up and make good even at their own cost. People understand that in the end business returns and it will pay off. Mistakes can happen that's life. Its unfortunate when issues don't get addressed but its not always the traders fault. This is peoples bread and butter, their livelihood, remember that when posting negatives. The traders will be all too aware of it I assure you.

As for the thankfully few con merchants that pop up every few years "supposed experts" the word soon gets round if they are any good or not. Personally I would not take the risk anymore with a Z and only go to guys known in the community. I am not interested in specifics of different disputes etc that is no help. You have some great cars, look after them. I might be on the market for another soon.. :)

Yes and as you never bothered to give me any dates for this session, you in turn walked away from what you promised at the offset.

 

I would still be waiting for that 'free' session, which IIRC would not be free as you didn't have (or still don't?) your own dyno, so I would still have had to pay the going rate per hour for Dyno hire. Hence why I took it else where at a fixed rate, and a better understanding of tuning.

Plus and this is the main reason, you didn't seem to have a plan to address the Selin/stalling issues, (which I know was not just my car, but other members that you were tunning) and I could easily see me spending £65-75 per hour whilst you attempted to sort the problem. I know very well that you chased the issues blindly, with these cars, and the owners spent alot of money buying new parts, that had no positive effect on the issues.

 

 

I have my own dyno, have had for some time.

 

As I have already said, the Selin issues were being investigated and I was travelling down to Bristol each time to do so. Speaking to SZ and using a map provided that was proven in the States, the issue was still apparent. This was done to prove a point. It wasn't a case of chasing the issues blindly, you don't "know very well", I'm afraid, only what someone else has told you. The owner didn't spend a lot on new parts, and subsequently the car was written off before further testing was completed.

 

I didn't, and still don't have time to investigate an issue with a component sold by someone else when similar power can be made without the component. Especially after discussing things with a vendor in the States unfortunately went nowhere. It's possible to run a dual intake without the Selin and a secondary MAF on the stock ECU, at any rate.

 

Read:

 

http://forums.nicoclub.com/variable-idle-when-warm-linked-to-maf-selin-translator-t586800.html

 

 

Thanks I've just about replaced and checked almost everything else. I'm about to take it to the dealer and have them do a computer diagnostic to see if there was something I missed. Yesterday I tried testing the TPS and resetting the throttle bodies with the TPS. SZ said they never have problems out of the translators unless it was the earlier models & those were affected by HID lights.

Mine was not an earlier model and I did not have HIDs. Not that I'm discounting SZ, but this is something I encountered and Jim admitted that it was a certain batch. I'm still betting my $ on it

 

So, no. It wasn't in my interest to continue investigating the Selin. But I still did in order to get to the bottom of the issue.

Yes, it can be "mapped around", but isn't that frowned upon? Maping around issues....

Edited May 4, 20169 yr by Noz

I have my own dyno, have had for some time.

 

 

Would that be this ?

 

Yes, during the moving in process.

 

Also seen here:

 

I'm having some Tee shirts made!

Does anyone want one?

:whistling:

I'm having some Tee shirts made!

Does anyone want one?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]96794[/ATTACH]

:whistling:

 

no thanks i dont like football.

i dont like football.

 

This x 1 million.

This x 1 million.

But you like handbags though right?

Only if they have a brick inside them.

Only if they have a brick inside them.

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Hi

 

I will comment as my name has been mentioned.

 

I can not really comment on what has happened to other people only my own experience. I had a full rebuild by Jimmer and mapping by Noel a few years ago. First issue I had was at TOTB 3 - 4 months after rebuild and mapping. I do not know what the reason for the problem was but the spark plug in cylinder 5 had melted by what we put down to det. I did not hear det and after replacing the plug the car seemed ok again. I done a compression test and that one cylinder was down on what the others where but still within the correct specs. The only cause I thought it could be was a intermittent fuel pump problem as I recall it was buzzing every now and then. Before I replaced the fuel pump I took it down to Noel who fit me in short notice to test the AFR. Car tested within range, infact I believe it was slightly more rich than originally mapped. Over the course of last year and this year I have not had the money motivation or time to investigate further or even use the car much, mainly due to moving house new baby etc... I will be ironing out a few faults hopefully this year and if necessary go from there. With Jimmer being so far away it is a bit of a nightmare getting things checked etc although he has always had time for me on facebook etc. Same for Noel tbh.

 

Who is responsible for advice on whether the fuel pump should have been replaced? Myself, Engine builder or mapper? Obviously it could have been mentioned by builder or mapper but tbh its probably down to my lack of judgement/knowledge, and where do you stop? The FPECU is also know to have issues with these cars so maybe that should be bypassed to just incase the list could go on and on.

 

Without money, time motivation to diagnose what exactly has happened and reasons for these on my car I can not point any blame to anyone as it would be pure speculation.

 

The only issues ive had with Noel is his time keeping, but im sure he would be the first to admit this.

 

I will update on my findings as and when they happen.

 

Regards

Ok there let me put a view point for consideration, there is an all too common thread with big engine builds and that is reliability, I strongly avoided this where I could during my time in the 300zx arena, there is so many factors going on here and far from been the least is the unrealistic figures owners want to attain and to this end the owner`s / customer does have a role to play in the blame game now I know that might seem harsh but please read on before judging.

 

With added pressure from pub talk figures, various forum's and Facebook "bragging" / "mine is better than yours" the real picture has become twisted ever so slightly, not so long ago we were would talk of how lucky we all were to be driving near 300 bhp cars that not only would kick the ass of most other cars on the road but would do it in its stride. Add to this the sheer drive-ability Nissan engineer's had spent countless hours perfecting along with a well balanced chassis and a host of then advanced electronics was a near automotive miracle in the late Eighties. Yet...... we / you and tuners think they all knew better!

 

So where has this demand for more power come from? well films, meets , and magazines, this is not a new thing been going on for years and all models have been tuned to within a hairs breath of failure, I have to ask though Why?, why take a perfectly good engine and thrash the arse out of it on a rolling road?? it proves nothing, rolling road results are at best not accurate way of knowing how a car will drive on the road and at worse total fabrication ! figures get manipulated by RR operators and if you think that does not happen then you may need to wake up to what is going on.

 

I have been in the unique position to have driven almost every type of zed in the UK and every level of tune, from auto non turbo standard right up to a serious imported race track version twin turbo`s that was mental, just mental !!

 

So given the wide range of zeds I have extensively driven over the past 20 years there have been some that really made a real mark on me in their superb drive and power delivery with near standard service and reliability and right up to the afore mentioned mental cars that are like pedigree poodles that need attention and fettling after every run out, then of course there is the myriad of zeds that have been rolling road \ tuned that have been provided with 500 / 600 bhp power run charts that basically run like crap on the road despite the readouts on the RR.

 

This is were the biggest figure you can get rather than drive-ability is the issue, what happens is the true focus of the car is lost, you end up with a high boosting zed that has massive power mid range and high revs but can be dragged off the lights to 60 mph by a well healed hot hatch back, this is not progress guys this is going backwards!! the US scene provides us with a mass of inspiration and a whole load of B.shit too, they operate on a different level than the UK, near new zeds were bought by teenagers with bags of cash to throw at it continually until such time they come to their senses and go buy a standard 500 bhp car not a 300 bhp been forced to run 500 bhp.

 

 

So back to the tuner main thread point, tuners have varied technical knowledge and highly varied facilities and kit, black smoking on high boost / revs seems to be a common factor and maybe a safety thing, or just bad mapping, black smoke is unburnt fuel as we all know.... this I have seen on every map done by the tuner in question that I have come across, this seems at odds with efficiency and sure leads to other issues, lets be honest here, you do not see many AMG mercs black smoking down the motorway do we?

 

So back to Paulzx, can I ask if you got a detailed receipt for the work? did you pay cash or by card ( guessing cash ) reason I ask is many, many do not get receipts of any kind and this is your recourse, any mapper worth his salt will not walk away from a bad map and will get it right until its correct and not at your cost, if you have paid once that is it, but then the difference between a boni-fida trader and well ..................not.

 

We always displayed our Insurance, Vat registration and Fire Certificates in the reception area, we were also subject to random visits by health and safety to ensure we were complaint in every way. Add to this our dedication to paper work with worksheets and detailed invoicing all backed up on the office hard drive data base.

 

So if you thinking of letting your pride and joy go to a tuner who ever it is do your own homework, check them out, see if they have insurance, see if the are fiscally sound ( many are not ) and see if they actually know what they are doing. But most of all stay real and stay safe, we had a customer who regular ran his zed at the pod and saw off 1000 bhp skylines and the like, he had a mild boost upgrade and a stock car with automatic box, used to drive the other guys mad !!

 

Enjoy what is now a classic bit of automotive history and please resist the temptation to blow them up, rebuilds are fine and dandy and sometimes a necessity but keep it close to standard power and I can guarantee your will love it more, either that or just go and buy a BMW M6 like I did 500 bhp / 200 mph out of the box, drive-ability to die for and massive power all in a sub £20k car, then again the US guys are happily tuning them to mad figures and guess what? yes they break!!

 

Jeff

Edited May 6, 20169 yr by JeffTT

Perfectly said Jeff

 

you don't "know very well", I'm afraid, only what someone else has told you. The owner didn't spend a lot on new parts, and subsequently the car was written off before further testing was completed.

 

QUOTE]

 

Wrong - I have spoken with this person directly several times, and in my book New Maf, IACV (Idle Air Control Valve), Pipe work and sensors aren't cheap parts.

 

 

Correct the car was written off, but only once the Selin and your map had been replaced with a standalone ECU setup. The owner had become disillusioned with you failing to sort/find the issue & 'blindly' asking him to change out perfectly good parts for new Nissan items, whilst charging him for all of your speculative investigation work........ Jim on the other hand, didn't charge the guy a penny whilst fitting all of these items, as I'm sure he felt sorry for him.

True !