Zed came home on a truck last night

 

 

 

For those that missed my other thread, it's probably all related

 

http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?176878-Problems-Problems-Problems

 

I think I haven't bled it properly after changing the water pipe the other night, so last night whilst on a spirited drive I once again lost all the water, only this time it was smoking like a chimney, people 5 cars back were getting it through the windows, thick white smoke.

 

My temp gauge never got in the red, infact I think it may of even been higher during Sunday's incident, although that could of been due to the speed I was going and the wind keeping it cold.

 

Anyway pulled over, and switched it off, wisps of smoke coming from the top of the engine itself, opened the rad cap expecting the worse, and low and behold, no water to be seen.

 

I was prepared though so had a few litres in the car just incase, started pouring it in and it wasn't getting very far before it was bubbling back out the rad cap. eventually some was starting to stay in, but worried that it wasn't circulating, decided to start it up, and it sounded rough as a badgers arse, didn't sound like it was running on all 6 at all.

 

So quickly knocked it off, and just slowly continued feeding it water.

 

I rang the AA and organised someone to come out and have a look, so while we waited we had plenty of time to let it cool. The water we were getting in seemed to be holding, the pipe that had been fitted looked bone dry, so the water didn't leak out the back, it appeared to have come from the front, possibly the rad cap itself, or the overflow, it looked as though it had hit the fan, and sprayed across the water pipes behind it, they're still stained a nice brown now.

 

After it cooled a good bit I started it again to circle some water and try and access the damage, And surprisingly it sounded fine, just as normal, the smoke out the back was a little more than normal, and there was a lot of water coming out, it was spraying on the floor. but other than that it seemed ok.

 

The water in the rad cap was looking a little shiny in the torch light, possible oil contamination, but can't be sure, it could just be some k-seal from previous years, the water's never looked clean in there.

 

Anyway, the recovery bloke came and agreed that it was probably best it wasn't driven home so he agreed to put it on the back of his truck.

 

My AA policy covered me for 10 mile recovery, and I was around 22miles away, but by the grace of God the admin office seemed to think I was only 7.5 miles from home so they gave the bloke the ok to take me all the way home.

 

(AA policy the best £40 I've ever spent)

 

I've had a look at the car when I finished work to try and start to asses the damage, Between me and my friends last night, we came up with a few possible scenarios,

 

Head gasket gone, would explain all the steam out the exhaust, and the possible oil in the radiator.

 

Turbo's starved of water so seals burnt out, also explain all the steam.

 

I've checked the intercooler hoses for signs of oil or water and the two into the butterfly valves were bone dry, bone dry last night, and bone dry after I ran it for a bit earlier on. there is a white powdery residue on the roof of them, but no idea how long that's been there, or if its related,

 

The bottom hose seems to have a greasy residue on there, but not covered in it, not sure if that's worrying or not.

 

When I ran it earlier it sounded fine as normal, and the smoke out the back didn't seem any more excessive than any other cold start.

 

However I have found what appears to be a fuel leak from a hose/pipe under the plenum at the front.

 

 

Not sure if it is fuel, it does smell like it, a little hard to get a finger in though. guessing this would of been caused from excessive heat.

 

I've taken a video again.

 

 

Shows it a lot better, can actually see the drips, looks like a good bit is coming out.

 

 

As for the Turbo smoke, For the last few weeks it has been pointed out to me that the fumes have been getting progressively worse, white smoke coming out, some people have said not to worry it's just condensation, when It has been noticed it seems to be after I've just washed the car so some water will have been sprayed up the exhaust (not intentionally though). So not sure weather this is a sign of the turbo's been on there way out or not.

 

 

Anyway after all that waffle can anybody help? some ways to try and diagnose problems? or just ways to rule out others?

 

I don't have too much confidence in me and my friends changing a head gasket or a rebuild for that matter, especially just after the timing belt's been done. Not that I don't think they're capable, a few of them are full time mechanics, it's just due to it been done on my drive, and the probability of something been overlooked or missed.

 

As for professional help, not sure how much Jeff would be willing to take on and Jimmer is miles away so I can only assume that between transporting the car to either one and then diagnostics, parts and labour I can only guess I'd be looking to part with a couple of grand.

 

So as much as it saddens me to say it, I may actually be better off cutting my losses, selling up or breaking it, getting rid of my daily drive and buying an S15.

 

I know that's not what everyone will be wanting to hear, and before the vultures start circling no decision's will be made until problems have been diagnosed.

 

For all I know the fuel leak may be the only thing wrong with it and I may still get to enjoy the summer in it.

 

Atleast it didn't set on fire though, every cloud eh...

those bolts only bolt the throttle body to the plenum dont they? if your looking for a fuel leak, why not pull the plenum and check the fuel rail??

 

from the staining of the water pipes it looks like the flan blew it over the engine. id be looking for a leak forward of the engine, such as rad hoses, rad itself. why not pressure test the coolant system?

The front water pipes have to come off as well I'm afraid.

 

How do I get them off? I thought they were just part of the block, does that mean the fan and belts too?

 

Am I going to have to remove the timing belt?

 

those bolts only bolt the throttle body to the plenum dont they? if your looking for a fuel leak, why not pull the plenum and check the fuel rail??

 

from the staining of the water pipes it looks like the flan blew it over the engine. id be looking for a leak forward of the engine, such as rad hoses, rad itself. why not pressure test the coolant system?

 

The fuel leak is on the rubber hose at the front between the fuel rail, Have a watch of the video, you'll see it pissing out.

 

Not quite sure how I'd pressure the coolant system, would I have to get an adaptor for the radiator cap?

Edited May 25, 201411 yr by lil Stevie

thats an epic fuel leak!! why not unbolt the plenum, and lift it away and you will see the pipe joining the 2 fuel rails. if you haven't deleted the throttle body cooling it will be annoying to lift away. but then you may have to change your gaskets if you damage them as they are practically paper.

 

As for the coolant system there is a tool such as.. http://www.bennetts.com/cooling-system-tools/sealey-tools-vs006-radiator-pressure-test-kit-440618-80991-167679.php

 

obviously there is a cheaper kits as i just found it on Google but id expect a few garages to have this stuff.

Here is a pic with the plenum removed

 

http://s95014253.onlinehome.us/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_16504/plenum~pull~harness2.jpg

 

The lime green shows the little hose which joins the 2 rails.

 

The picture is taken from the below website which happens to be Robo's plenum pull instructions

 

http://s95014253.onlinehome.us/63104/16304.html

I'll have a look into the pressure test, but one thing at a time. And as you said, the fuel leak is epic, so that is priority one.

 

I figured the plenum pull would be a big job, and didn't really wanna go to the effort of taking it off to fix a fuel leak, which would then allow me to run it to try and determine if the head gasket has gone, because then that would be plenum off, back on and then off again to change the gasket, so seemed like I would be creating work for myself.

 

Although I should of known, none of this was going to be straight foreword.

plenum off first time is always annoying once its off you can clean stuff up and delete a lot of useless things which makes it a 20 min job later on....as for the head gasket replacement, the plenum removal will be the least of your worries.

 

one thing at a time, and take your time. if your not confident, take it to someone who is, it may cost you but its their problem then.

I have done the plenum pull a few times now and it gets easier every time as it become second nature.....lol

I took everyones advice and removed and binned all the pipework under the plenum..... all rubber hose connectors and metal pipes.... this get rid of loads of joins and pipes you can't get to......

I re-routed the vacuum pipes and also got rid of the EGR valve with a kit from Luke at Z centre, I got my plenum water bypass silicone hoses at the same time........

The water pipes unbolt with some Allen heads and a bolt. 2 on the top pipe 3 on the lower. Your going to need to drain the coolant down and get some instant gasket as well. The back plate for the timing belt will still be in your way though...pull the plenum it's not that bad and you can delete and replace arces of coolant lines in the process.

 

Why not do a cold compression test on the block before fixing the leak? At least you will know if it's proper fubar. The fuel relay needs to be removed to do the compression test so you won't have a fuel leak during this process. Hell you might even take the plugs out to find a cylinder with water in it.

those bolts only bolt the throttle body to the plenum dont they? if your looking for a fuel leak, why not pull the plenum and check the fuel rail??

 

from the staining of the water pipes it looks like the flan blew it over the engine. id be looking for a leak forward of the engine, such as rad hoses, rad itself. why not pressure test the coolant system?

 

This^

 

You will be able to see where your leaking from and if it looses pressure without veiwable leaking it's likely loosing it to a cylinder, which if you've got the plugs out you will be able to tell.

My mate's going to bring me home a compression tester sometime next week, so hopefully get that done regardless of me getting any closer to the fuel leak.

 

I agree with what's been said of the coolant leak, that obviously came from the front, I think it could of been due to air lock.

 

I was hoping that will become clear eventually.

 

I'll have a read up of the plenum pull and see about that. My worry is though that this was all caused from me fiddling about and disturbing things while trying to find a boost leak, if I pull the plenum it'll probably never work again.

Anybody know why there aren't any photo's on this write up anymore?

 

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=technical&msg_id=880107

Anybody know why there aren't any photo's on this write up anymore?

 

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=technical&msg_id=880107

 

Would it not be better to try a cold compression test first to see if that shows anything before removing the plenum? You disconnect the fuel fuse anyway so not much fuel loss. Not sure how accurate doing it on a cold engine is but im sure others will know. I have a compression tester if you need to borrow it too.

 

http://www.twinturbo.net/net/viewmsg.aspx?forum=technical&msg_id=868155

That's exactly what I said in post 34. It will be less accurate but if it's totally fubar it will tell you very quickly.

Yeah wasn't planning on pulling the plenum just yet, just reading through the how-to's for when the time comes.

 

But the compression tester would be handy for tomorrow Paul if it's not too much trouble...

Yeah you can call round for it and Rebecca will be in. Im at work 7-2 then going to Newcastle rvi to visit someone so won't be back till late. Just shot us a pm and ill send you my address.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

That's exactly what I said in post 34. It will be less accurate but if it's totally fubar it will tell you very quickly.

 

Lol didn't see that post doh!

 

Yeah what he said.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

So thanks to Paul, gave it a compression test. results are as follows

 

stone cold engine

 

From front of car

 

right bank

 

cylinder1 :- 125-130 psi

2:- 120-125

3:- 125-130

 

Left bank

 

1:- 140

2:- 90

3:- 125

 

Then with a little bit of oil in

 

Right bank

 

1:- 210

2:- 240

3:- 130

 

Left bank

 

1:- 160

2:- 140

3:- 230

 

I may of forgot to push the throttle in on some of them, but that's what we've got. Would I be right in saying the head gasket looks like it's ok, although they're are probably some piston ring issues?

 

Never had a compression test done in the four years I've owned the car so not sure if any issues will be related to the fiasco of the other night or if they've just always been like that.

All the plugs look ok, although one was a little loose and had some carbon around the seating base. other than that all looks ok really.

 

Gunna crack on with the fuel leak anyway se how far we get.

just to reiterate though the engine hasn't been ran since Thursday night when I took the video of the fuel leak.

they are low results. you should be looking for minimum of 140psi on a 20yo engine. do you have a cyl leak tester??

 

They are stone cold tests don't forget mikey.

Still will be a touch lower and is less accurate but yeah I agree it's that 90 psi one that concerns me, esp in relation to the 140 psi next to it...

I think it's time to pressure test the coolant system and see if that cylinder gets wet, sound like a plan?

There's a coolant leak as well so hopefully two birds and all. I know you do the same as me bean fix the fuel leak and coolant leak then fire it up and see what happens...but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to someone else for their car.

Edited May 26, 201411 yr by Stephen
Disclaimer

Well could have access to a cylinder leak test and a coolant pressure test hopefully sometime this week, so will give them both a go.

 

We were working from Groovers post in this thread

 

http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?164744-compression-test&highlight=compression+test

 

He said lower limit should be around 128, and as I said engine was stone cold so we thought the 125-130 readings were reasonable, but yeah that 90 one is concerning, however with some oil in it, it did shoot up to 140. but I was also worried about the 100psi jump on some of them with oil in, could that indicate ring problems?

 

 

It still sounded ok when it was running last, no knocking or anything, but not sure what it would be like when it was up to temp.

 

I do like your thoughts on getting the fuel leak sorted and firing it up. my mate shares the same view, just get that done, do the leak tests on the cylinder and cooling and then see what it runs like.

I still remain opertmistic that there's a chance you simply cooked the engine last time and this hose split after that causing all the electrics to get wet and it run like crap. I don't fully believe that but it's an option, little steps mate.

Well the only time it sounded bad was when we fired it up to try and circulate the water when it was as hot as the sun. After it cooled down after that everything seemed to be running OK.

 

As for bleeding the cooking system. I know this is a little late, but where's the bleed nipple?

And you need to jack the front up as high as possible with the heater on full temperature, just keep topping it up till the bubbles stop and it's full of water.