Just to start with can we stick to combined pressure or it just gets confusing.

 

So is 20-22psi ok on stock setup?

 

Because in a few weeks that's what I'll have. I've done my research and most say that after 28psi you need to seriously start thinking about internals.

 

So I thought a 3-4 psi increase each turbo wasn't over the top. But should give me that little extra kick. And I was just wondering what other people where running.

 

Before anyone asks one of my turbos is shot and while I was changing them I thought I might as well do a few mods and get a little more power.

 

I should be getting 400bhp @ flywheel at this pressure . . . if my maths is right :tongue_smilie:

A good friend of mine is looking to buy a Zed having come from a 540bhp Nissan S14. This sums things up pretty well:

 

 

:thumbup1::thumbup1:

Its all black magic to me:biggrin: but still a very intresting thread with a hell of a lot of info comming in :thumbup1: keep it comming and keep it clean:yes:

im running GT525 turbos @18psi, giving me 424.6bhp and 449ftlb of torge, the dyno guys said its been dialed back as the dyno sheet i have from 2009 shows it @ 457.3bhp, im running slightly rich on the topend.

 

am i to believe that my turbos are not rated to the 500bhp that Z1 says they can produce? and how do i get 500bhp with out upping the boost?

 

GT525 turbos, come in 2 A/R ratios, one is .54 the other is .63

 

Anyway, take a look at Z1's claims, im sure they wouldn't claim something on there own for sale thread without someone picking up on it.

 

http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=92

 

ive also had a few people on the Zpeople facebook page, state they are running stock at 21psi and have done so for a while.

 

I have also seen NOZ's zed at santa pod with his laptop on the passenger seat, ive had a good nose around his engine bay as he said it was stock, and ive seen him running the times he has stated.

Here's a quick one from my thread here: http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?165369-Running-1-4-bar-%2821psi%29-on-stock-injectors&highlight=

 

 

We had a customer once who was running 21psi in a daily driver, bog standard engine, we checked all we could get to and nothing looked or appeared to be upgraded, the car went like a super missile and had no sign of detonation and seemed to lap up the boost No problem, I drove that particular car several times and could not work out how it was running how it did.

 

Later the owner had a small problem and posted up on here how it was running and was blasted for been incorrect and no one believed him, but we had seen it and it was real, a garage owner in Cyprus also came on here years ago and said how they had 500bhp out of a totally standard engine and no one trusted what he said, later on a trip to Cyprus I saw how it was done and its very possible.

 

Jeff TT

 

That particular zed was running a "generic" off the shelf chip as many describe them and had no other visable means of achieving the boost level it did. At the time it was a mystery and still remains so as the mapping was basically a JWT one the same as ones fitted to hundreds of zeds.

 

Having said that, I can see why many owners will be interested in your explaination of your take on things and the work you have done, I can also see why the established theories and guys involved at the sharp end as such will have doubts and reluctant to accept controversial things such as using standard head gaskets on big builds when for the big end of 20 years it been done a "different" way.

 

Long term reliability of both performance mods and the integrigity of them and of the tuner is of vital importance when wanting to prove your take on things, this is I think is your weak point at the moment as a newcomer to the forum and the open zed scene.

 

You speak of generic chips as bad things in general as they can be badly written and live mapping is the way to go, however it has not passed without notice you have a history of selling generic chips? also your very recent cessation as an ebay seller of such chips as Turbonoz was not unexpected

with the bad feed back you were receiving can you see where I am coming from? for owners to trust you and even the established tuners and builders its hard when you have these conflicting issues going on, new ways of doing things is not a bad thing if they are what they say.

 

Jeff TT

Edited January 8, 201312 yr by JeffTT
pure artistic licence with beguiling almalgamation

Eratosthenes was slated by experts for thousands of years having claimed that the earth wasn't in fact flat, as was Columbus in more recent times

 

as it transpires this pair of lunatics ^^^^^ weren't full of shit after all, make of that what you will

Eratosthenes was slated by experts for thousands of years having claimed that the earth wasn't in fact flat, as was Columbus in more recent times

 

as it transpires this pair of lunatics ^^^^^ weren't full of shit after all, make of that what you will

 

Yes both proven correct in their thinking, not quite the same importance when dealing with car tuning compared to the planets topography, however point taken.

 

Jeff TT

 

Having said that, I can see why many owners will be interested in your explaination of your take on things and the work you have done, I can also see why the established theories and guys involved at the sharp end as such will have doubts and reluctant to accept controversial things such as using standard head gaskets on big builds when for the big end of 20 years it been done a "different" way.

 

Jeff TT

 

Greg Dupree runs over 700 brake on standard gaskets but I'm sure your aware of this :D

JeffTT, my negative feedback is free for all to see. As are the 12600 positive feedbacks. Unlike others, I will always use the trading name Turbonoz. There will be no hiding for me :) That happened a few months back when I frankly took too much on and customer service was lacking. Something that can happen to anyone, and is very regrettable. A large percentage of those were for items not received, one thing I can state is that everything was dispatched. The Golf GTi chips, well they are brilliant. However, there are 2 very different chips that do not work in the same Digifant ECU. Unfortunately, without sufficient customer care, problems do not get rectified in the world of mail order ECU tuning. I hold my hands up to that. You truly have no idea regarding the number of differrent permutations of Bosch ECUs and compatible chips. However, it has nothing to do with my abilities when it comes to mapping a car, or the proof of which I post on here.

 

Thanks for derailing this thread so expertly, though. This is the second personal attack from you, keep 'em coming, I say! Although last time your posts were deleted having wrongfully accused me of back-door trading, almost destroying the thread for your own gain. I hope this time it will stay in the open forum. I don't want this to descend into into a personal slanging match, that would be a shame, but is it true your "+70bhp ECU" upgrades are nothing but JWT chips shamelessly copied/stolen. I have proof, but as it involves other parties, I shan't be divulging further. If I delve deep enough, could I not find some very scathing reviews of Zedworld hiding in your closet? I don't really see the point, you do what you do, I do what I do. I am simply posting my own findings, which are backed up by other people's experiences elsewhere in the world. I haven't taken a personal line in this once, simply posted what can be achieved and backed up by evidence. I am far from just a Zed mapper, it is simply a car I own with huge untapped potential due to the UK tuning scene being restricted by generic tunes and fear of a broken ringland. We're so far behind the Supras, it's unforgivable. I am a NISSAN man to the very core, I truly believe there is another way :thumbup1:

 

I guess me extolling the virtues of proper ECU tuning is not good for the "+70bhp upgrade ECU" business, even though it would mean many more faster & reliable Zeds. Interesting, because I have made more money from generic chips than from mapping over the past 10 years. Anyone can run my 390bhp map and pull the same figures for themselves. Is 13 months long enough for it to be proven? Maybe you want to strike a deal, and sell that map as your own instead of the decade-old JWT effort? I'm sure we can work something out...

 

I have never slated generic chips, they work perfectly within reason. Would you like to post some positive feedback of mine please? By the way, Jay Green won the Semi-Pro BDC class 2012 running a generic tune (280bhp on the dyno) I made for his 2.0L SR20DET-engined S13. He is now a Pro driver:

 

 

Anyway, if anyone has any concerns or queries regarding my approach and results, and even my past, like I said: My car is available for all to see, pop down and have a chat. If I'm not at Santa Pod or the dyno, I am on here and Facebook 24/7.

 

:thumbup:

 

Apologies if the above makes for uninteresting reading, I hate forum confrontation, but sometimes it's inevitable.

 

Kind regards,

TURBONOZ

 

Edit:

 

P.S. I just want to big myself up some more, as what I do, and more importantly my customers, are not based on this forum so I am at a distinct disadvantage when someone such as ZEDworld takes an interest. I have THOUSANDS of happy customers all over the world, obviously not just for chips, but all sorts of car-related & engineering-related items. Manual boost controllers, injector rebuild kits, performance ECUs, rebuilt injectors, O-rings & ball bearings, come see me :lol: :lol:

Edited January 5, 201312 yr by Noz

Cheers for the info :) the data logger is an ECUtalk display/interface for consult ect ect :) so am I to assume the chip I'm running is shite and running the injectors too hard?? Certainly doesn't look too rich at the back end, sadly tho I can't confirm the integrity of the chip as it was fitted before I bought the car :(

No.

 

It was component failure or improper mapping that destroyed your ring lands. Sorry to say, probably could have been avoided. Your data logger? SAFC2? Consult?

 

Here is some proof, which I have already posted, showing 21psi "on a boot to the floor run":

 

 

Let me break it down:

 

Red line = RPM

Green line = MAF voltage

Blue line = Injection duty cycle

Pink line = AFR

 

As is plain to see, duty cycle at 94% at an RPM of 5937 with an AFR of 11.89:1. I picked the highest duty cycle from the log to highlight. The MAF voltage of 4.574v is indicative of the power I was running. Z32 MAFs have a voltage output range of 0-5v. I will leave it up to you to work out how much power I was running. The reason duty cycle remains relatively constant is due to the fact boost tails off as revs rise.

 

Last time I left it at that, but this time I'll go a bit further into it. The 94% is actually higher than the true duty cycle. This is because I have reduced the injection multiplier by 6.25% in order to be able to have a lean cruise condition (16:1) without O2 feedback. By doing this, fueling across the board is reduced, yet it will still be reporting the original duty cycle. In order to maintain the original AFR throughout the rest of the map, fueling was subsequently increased everywhere apart from low load areas. This results in a reported duty cycle HIGHER than the true physical duty cycle experienced by the injectors.

 

In short, duty cycle was probably 90%.

 

Hope that helps :)

 

P.S. When you get tired of no power and driving in fear of broken ringlands, you know where to find me :lol: :lol:

ooooooooo some ones had a pap pap :)

(runs and hides behind monitor lol )

im running GT525 turbos @18psi, giving me 424.6bhp and 449ftlb of torge, the dyno guys said its been dialed back as the dyno sheet i have from 2009 shows it @ 457.3bhp, im running slightly rich on the topend.

 

am i to believe that my turbos are not rated to the 500bhp that Z1 says they can produce? and how do i get 500bhp with out upping the boost?

 

GT525 turbos, come in 2 A/R ratios, one is .54 the other is .63

 

Anyway, take a look at Z1's claims, im sure they wouldn't claim something on there own for sale thread without someone picking up on it.

 

http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=92

 

ive also had a few people on the Zpeople facebook page, state they are running stock at 21psi and have done so for a while.

 

I have also seen NOZ's zed at santa pod with his laptop on the passenger seat, ive had a good nose around his engine bay as he said it was stock, and ive seen him running the times he has stated.

 

 

They quote 430RWHP without race gas, which will be around 500bhp, US figures. Rest of the world say 400RWHP & ~465bhp operating within their efficiency range. So it's probably spot on, but not at 18 psi.

 

The only thing I can't fathom is that they quote it as havng a 35lb/min compressor wheel. The GT28RS flows exactly that amount at 18psi on the choke line. 525s are apparently T28 CHRAs in the stock machined housings, so I have no idea how they can claim that, but I'm not privvy to the spec of the inducers/exducers, so I just don't know. A GT2554R .80A/R flows around 17.5lb/min at 18psi, so maybe they have just put it into Zed twin turbo context. Using typical figures for a turbocharged petrol engine (BSFC=0.4) with an AFR of 11.5, you need around 38lb/min to create 500bhp, so this again almost backs up their claims. I'm just intrigued to know how they have a 35lb/min compressor wheel.

 

Member rustysills could be running GT525s, his car produced ~420bhp @ 16psi and was a bit of a monster.

 

You won't get 500bhp without upping the boost, the only way to maximise power & torque on any engine is to map each car individually on a dyno, measuring torque output. It's a science. You can start looking at water/meth injection to drop the intake temps and allow you to run more timing. I don't think water inj is used much on Zeds, but elsewhere it's common.

I've read all this thread and am I missing something? All Noz has done is post up what his mods are what he's achieved through his mapping and also backed it up with proof which not many people can do,

 

Then all of a sudden some non believers post up critisising him for no reason what so ever, and it's not the first time,

 

Some people just can't accept that he's achieved good power at 21psi on standard turbos, maybe because there unable to achieve the same,

 

Everyone tunes,build drives there cars differently what he's posted his very informative people should be congratulating him on his efforts not slating him

 

Alot of people just go on what they've read on the net most are just horror stories or people no knowing what there on about

 

I say good on you mate great to see what CAN be done

Noz is correct in what he says in one sentence bad mapping kills engines not 21psi of boost

 

Any more pics of them girls ? :)

I've read all this thread and am I missing something? All Noz has done is post up what his mods are what he's achieved through his mapping and also backed it up with proof which not many people can do,

 

Then all of a sudden some non believers post up critisising him for no reason what so ever, and it's not the first time,

 

Some people just can't accept that he's achieved good power at 21psi on standard turbos, maybe because there unable to achieve the same,

 

Everyone tunes,build drives there cars differently what he's posted his very informative people should be congratulating him on his efforts not slating him

 

Alot of people just go on what they've read on the net most are just horror stories or people no knowing what there on about

 

I say good on you mate great to see what CAN be done

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDkQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DIyova2qrsaA&ei=4WLoUKqiM9GR0QX4goHAAw&usg=AFQjCNEAO2Xzn41jQNOJaPVoSIM_YJEYMQ&sig2=V_Ket8xSigZKDuPIZQ2GSg&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.d2k

Cheers for the info :) the data logger is an ECUtalk display/interface for consult ect ect :) so am I to assume the chip I'm running is shite and running the injectors too hard?? Certainly doesn't look too rich at the back end, sadly tho I can't confirm the integrity of the chip as it was fitted before I bought the car :(

 

No problem, here to help. The injectors won't be at 100% duty, it would be horrendously rich unless the engine was consuming enough air for around 430bhp. If you can tell me your spec (PM if you wish), I'll have a better idea of what could be going on.

 

Everything is dependent on the chip programming. The ONLY way to ensure your car is running safely is to monitor the two most important aspects: AFR & timing/knock. Prior to this, you can have your chip analysed and compared against stock and an optimum generic tune, but that will not guarantee the car itself is running safely.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDkQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DIyova2qrsaA&ei=4WLoUKqiM9GR0QX4goHAAw&usg=AFQjCNEAO2Xzn41jQNOJaPVoSIM_YJEYMQ&sig2=V_Ket8xSigZKDuPIZQ2GSg&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.d2k

 

Lol oook??

im actually loving this tread, having had many a conversation with my American z owning friends. ive always had an open mind as to the actual potential of our engines.

 

I think the biggest issue with UK cars is they are cheap to buy, usually have minimal mods to increase the power, but people skimp on the maintenance as they do not realise the running costs involved, they then drive them into ground and sell them either smoking, rusted to hell or have major work that needs doing to them, decent zeds are actually hard to come by in the UK. they then get a bad reputation of being unreliable and not very strong engines when its actually down to how they have been treated.

 

As i said, ive seen Noz's car at pod, ive had a good nose about, it is indeed stock.

 

But boy is it quick, ive seen his engine map, not that i understood it, but he was mapping on the stand and taking it down the strip at pod, i have to say im following this with interest and its nice to know what and how or even when noz will actually (if) blow his engine.

 

I also asked my my GT525 turbos, as it would be handy to know if i can indeed give them more boost. though at the moment i need to change the clutch as its started to slip when boost hits - oops.

I agree maintaining is quite often overlooked, or not done often enough as is using cheap parts,

 

I'm enjoying the useful info, mapping is one area I know very little about,

 

I've used one of Noz chips on my s13 and it was cracking ran great

 

I think the biggest issue with UK cars is they are cheap to buy, usually have minimal mods to increase the power, but people skimp on the maintenance as they do not realise the running costs involved, they then drive them into ground and sell them either smoking, rusted to hell or have major work that needs doing to them

 

 

 

I'd agree with that statement

 

and on a side note, I wonder what the thread ratio is on this forum of "Look at my massive new turbo's that I've just imported" compared to "I spent the money replacing my fuel filter and cleaning my spark plugs as part of my general maintenance plan"........not half as exciting or interesting I suppose

im quite interested in how the hike in boost will effect longevity? both of the engine and turbos? going onto rusty sills car producing around 400bhp, and your car being stock apart from a filter change what would you expect to be gaining from the standard mods, decat etc etc on stock tubs. its all very interesting and I suppose the only way to know how things will work out will be long term. I think most of us would welcome you to turn up to something like jae with a rolling road and really explain and show first hand what is achievable.

my second question is this, if the z32 has been knocking about now for 20 odd years how comes no one else has mainstreamed the idea od running beyond 16psi, whats changed or is new to push things through (im not questioning your results or intellect btw) what are you bringing to the table that's pushing the boat forward.

I'd agree with that statement

 

and on a side note, I wonder what the thread ratio is on this forum of "Look at my massive new turbo's that I've just imported" compared to "I spent the money replacing my fuel filter and cleaning my spark plugs as part of my general maintenance plan"........not half as exciting or interesting I suppose

 

 

 

very fair point the amount of zeds running around with bling 18s on them and budjet tyres. more gauges than the dash has room for, but the oils not been changed in 2 years. then the tubs fall apart and theyre asking why has my engine shit the bed? because you prioritised having shite mods over having a car that ran properly to start with. that's why my body work has stayed standard cos ive spent so much money servicing everything unseen :( its boring and looks like ive done nothing but hopefully it will last.

Just the basics really, Apexi Induction, japspeed decat / cobra stainless system and the ecu chip. due to my EGR valve developing a small boost leak at just over a bar I thought it pointless to fit another EBC until I'd deleted the EGR,which my lazy ass has yet to do :) I fix cars during the week so really can't be arsed with mine at the weekend, poor soul doesn't get enough loving :)

No problem, here to help. The injectors won't be at 100% duty, it would be horrendously rich unless the engine was consuming enough air for around 430bhp. If you can tell me your spec (PM if you wish), I'll have a better idea of what could be going on.

 

Everything is dependent on the chip programming. The ONLY way to ensure your car is running safely is to monitor the two most important aspects: AFR & timing/knock. Prior to this, you can have your chip analysed and compared against stock and an optimum generic tune, but that will not guarantee the car itself is running safely.

I'm on my phone at the moment, so will address any posts when I get back home.

 

The reason I'm posting is because having fitted a fmic, dual short intakes and done lots of deletes, without adjusting the boost controller from the previous level of 21psi, I hit this level at part throttle before letting off at 1.5 bar.... Boost will be reduced back down to 21psi, of course! The car is an absolute weapon now, so will get it on the dyno, see what it's making and how much difference can be attributed to the new modifications.

 

Happy Zedding!

im quite interested in how the hike in boost will effect longevity? both of the engine and turbos? going onto rusty sills car producing around 400bhp, and your car being stock apart from a filter change what would you expect to be gaining from the standard mods, decat etc etc on stock tubs. its all very interesting and I suppose the only way to know how things will work out will be long term. I think most of us would welcome you to turn up to something like jae with a rolling road and really explain and show first hand what is achievable.

my second question is this, if the z32 has been knocking about now for 20 odd years how comes no one else has mainstreamed the idea od running beyond 16psi, whats changed or is new to push things through (im not questioning your results or intellect btw) what are you bringing to the table that's pushing the boat forward.

 

426.3bhp and running sweet at the moment.