This is a long read, so get a drink and get comfy! lol

 

Just wanted peoples opinions on what's to be expected by a "specialist" 300ZX garage these days. The story.................

 

After 5 years of having so called bodyshops (not the guys at Custom Exotics who have been the only people I've met who have pride in their work), I decided to make one last attempt at getting my Z back on the road or it would be broken/scrapped. Before getting it back into the guys at Custom Exotics to have some panels sorted and let the interior trimmer do his bit, I decided to make sure it was mechanically and structurally sound. There's not that many garages that I thought I could trust so I thought I would make the 200 odd mile round journey from London to a "specialist". So on the 8th March with my Z on the back of a trailer I headed up to this "specialist". I told them there was no rush and they were happy with that as obviously no one had any idea if anything was wrong as it hasn't been driven for 5 years. I wanted the major service done, so belts, oil/fuel filters, water pump, thermostat etc. I supplied most of the parts which were all OEM. I also wanted a full inspection carried out so I'd know that my car was mechanically/structurally sound before spending any other money on it.

 

So about 2 weeks later, I called them to get an update only to be told that they had just finished and everything was fine on my car. He actually commented that he couldn't believe that my car hadn't been driven for 5 years as apart from the timing belt needing doing and the bottom radiator support bracket which had rust, there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. Needless to say I was over the moon!! I told him my friend who helped me get my Z on the trailer was still away in Spain and should be back the following week so I couldn't pick it up till then, he said no problem as long as the bill was settled up which it was when they called me back with the final amount. Unfortunately, I couldn't pick up my Z for about 3 weeks from that phone call as my mate was delayed getting back from Spain, then I ended up in Moorfields Eye Hospital and then I couldn't get a trailer from any local hire place. I kept the garage informed at each step and it was never an issue (or at least they never told me it was).

 

So on the 18th April, I hooked up the hired trailer again and headed back up to collect my Z. All was fine, no cross words, no issues and we stood around chatting about Z's and cars for a while. My car seamed to run perfectly smooth and we got it up on the trailer and left. I honestly thought I had completed the first step to getting my car back on the road................................

 

I noticed the first problem as soon as we were removing the car off the trailer at the bodyshop. There was a small dent in the passenger sideskirt which I am 100% certain was not there as I washed the car just before taking it to this "specialist". I called them the very next day and they emailed me back asking for pictures which I sent. Personally I believe the damage was done by a lift arm but obviously I cannot prove this. They had no idea about the damage and as my car was in the bodyshop anyway, the guys at Custom Exotics said they would do a smart repair on it and not to worry. I wasn't happy it was damaged but it was nothing major, more annoying than anything else.

 

 

 

Now we start on the real issues. I went up to the bodyshop on the 24th April to start doing a few bits. I opened up the bonnet to discover the right hand radiator bracket flapping about, just being held on by a self tapping screw. I was stunned as I can't believe this garage had snapped a bolt and just "bodged" a repair on something so simple to get to and fix. I took some pictures and emailed them to the garage with a subject heading of " Very disappointed" and simply asking for them to explain this.

 

 

 

 

 

This was the response headed "metal age changes explained" with the following which looks like it's just been copy and pasted from the web:

 

Hi Vijay,

 

By the look of the picture that is the right hand radiator hold bracket as fitted to the twin turbo model, it looks like the original fixing has snapped when by been over tightened or more likely when been undone as they do occasionally seize in place, the reason I think they do this is the under side of the panel has a large amount of air pass over it when driving and often this can be very damp air and causes rust to form on the bolt thread that protrudes through the welded nut.

 

 

 

So what is rust ?

When the open-air oxidation of iron takes place, rust is the oxide that forms. While the chemical composition of rust (Fe2O3.nH2O) means nothing to the average homeowner, it is the resulting hydrated iron oxide that gets all of the attention [1]. Rusting is the general term used to describe the corrosion of iron and its alloys, such as steel.

 

The process of rust involves the way various materials react with oxygen, which results in the chemical compound of rust. When iron combines with oxygen, iron oxide forms. Since iron oxide is larger in size than iron, the oxidation process causes it to “puff up” and sometimes flake. When a great amount of rust accumulates, the buildup may create a powerful force that can actually separate adjacent parts.

 

 

 

So back to the picture the upshot of the damp air passing over the exposed part of the tread causes a reaction within the metal of the bolt and this reduces the structural strength to a point it can become difficult to undo and can fail ( snap), as the area below the original fixing is double skinned and is not flat the an alternative fixing looks to have been made using a self tapping screw.

 

Hope that has explained that for you.

 

Regards

 

Now to me that was just a sarcastic and rude answer. I understand that bolts will rust and shear but surely any "specialist" worth anything would have drilled it out and tapped it and not just put a self tapping screw through the bodywork? I called the owner of the garage to ask about his reply and said to him how can I trust any of his work if he would happily do this to someone's car - what would he do if there was a bolt with bad access that had sheared???? Well at that point he swore at me and proceeded to hang up. I was absolutely shocked as I had not at any point been rude to him in any way! I called straight back and his wife answered and said he cannot speak to me as he's busy and he said I should put anything I want to say in an email - great customer services!!!!!

 

My Email:

 

To say I'm stunned that you just swore, hung up on me and then when I called straight back you were busy and told me to send you an email is an understatement!!

 

I've contacted you as soon as I found a problem with something I'm sure no one would be happy with. I accept bolts can snap but to just bodge a repair like that is just not right! I've always thought you were professional and never had a bad thing to say about you so to just drill though a bracket and bodywork and put a self tapping screw though, that is loose and allows the bracket to flap, is just not right. Would you be happy if someone did that to your car??

 

Can you please respond to me as I feel that it's not right that you just hung up on me and treated me in this manner.

 

Can I also have a replacement bracket sent to me and I will fix it properly.

 

His response:

 

Despite this business been my passion I have sweated blood and tears for for 12 years + to create a simple issue with a fixing that I was still wondering about when we spoke resulted in you personally attacking my work whole ethic, to even suggest for one moment that any other part of the work was questionable because of the broken bracket bolt was simply outrageous and if you consider for one moment how insulting you were been then you will understand the answer you got.

 

It is always regrettable when any issue arises and even more so when it escalates, I do regret ending the phone call in the manner I did but it was a moment of unclarity.

 

(A replacement bracket and bolt will be sent to your preferred address ( please advise) )

 

 

Was I being insulting to question anyones work if they repaired bolts with easy access in this way? As I said to him, what would he do with a bolt with bad access which lets face it, with a 300ZX engine bay you rarely have good access to anything. To me it's a matter of professionalism and doing the right thing!

not exactly proffesional though is it. If I knew I did that to somones car, I certainly wouldn't be trying to take the p**s out of them when they noticed it

In my opinion there is too much discussion about the tone of the messages/complaint etc. The key point is was the work carried out to a reasonable level? If not Vijay is within his right to bring it to their attention and ask for an explanation/refund as appropriate.

 

We must remember that this exchange of words is between a customer and business, not forum members and therefore regardless of tone a level of professionalism is expected of the business. Part of running a business is dealing with customers and complaints.

 

I have been impressed with Jeff's knowledge and business, having used their services myself in the past. I have to say that I would not be happy with the bracket repair on my car.

Teas still in the micro lol

Your missing the point mate, professional or not had you very first email been different, then your reply would have been different and thus set the tone for all future communication.

How can you call it unprofessional after what you sent them....

I always look at the very 1st point cos it nearly always paves the way ahead, sozz

Oopps got a bing, gotta go

smithy

Sorry Smithy, but we obviously see a different view on customer/business relationships. You have absolutely no idea how gutted I was to find the skirt damage and then the radiator bracket. When I email the garage, it was pure disappointment that they had repaired my car like that. I had nothing more to say than ask for an explanation. I've had 5 years of seeing my car off the road because of various experts and this garage knew that. I can honeslty say if it wasn't for the guys at Custom Exotics, my car would be broken and being sold for bits by now.

 

Enjoy your dinner :)

Teas still in the micro lol

Your missing the point mate, professional or not had you very first email been different, then your reply would have been different and thus set the tone for all future communication.

How can you call it unprofessional after what you sent them....

I always look at the very 1st point cos it nearly always paves the way ahead, sozz

Oopps got a bing, gotta go

smithy

 

He did say that he that he rang them back not emailed and they then emailed him, not my idea of customer relations sorry

I thought I was careful removing all names and for the life of me still can't see it in the post. If any moderator can see the name, would you mind removing it for me.

 

I'm just really disappointed in the manner of the garage in no attempt to offer an apology and I still believe the inspection fee should be refunded as it was not fully carried out!

 

The point of me paying out over £600 for a proper service was to get the car back on the road. I still have problems with a misfire and the scaping noise behind the cam belt covers - what am I supposed to do about that, pay another mechanic??

 

Name removed at your request Vijay and hope you guys can sort it out.

Thanks Gary.

 

I hope so too. I just would like an explantion from the garage and the inspection fee refunded. I still don't think that's much to ask at all considering I have to fix the bracket, the misfire and also resolve the scraping behind the cambelt cover.

If i've read this right you took a UK model in that you knew had rust issues at the front end. As the car was bodykitted it made it more difficult to see the rust on the sills, as far as I'm aware MOT requirements are not allowed to poke holes in rust so its hard to say if it would have passed or not.

 

The specialist, thinking the bodywork had recently been done quite reasonably but incorrectly decided not to check the sills/bodywork for corosion.

 

The intial complaint was childish, as was the response to some extent however I can understand why the specialist would repond in such a way, they offered to replace damaged parts (which no one can proove either way of how it was) FOC after some tooing and fro'ing. Now I would never expect a garage specialist or otherwise to retap a hole and put a new bolt in if a fixing were to break, unless you were paing £150+ an hour - there isnt enough days in the week to start messing about doing that.

 

In this case I do think the specialist should refund the cost, if anything to shut the OP up.

 

However i do feel the OP is annoyed at the state of the car and looking for somone to blame just to cheer them selves up, this is of course my honest opinion.

 

Overall both of you, you win some you loose some in order to save face the specialist should issue the refund and an apology, the OP should take on board the lessons of communicating properly and giving people a break from time to time, people are only human they do make mistakes.

 

ps how on earth can the specialist rectify and issue with the cambelt scraping if you hadnt mentioned it to them before pouring out the story on here?

If i've read this right you took a UK model in that you knew had rust issues at the front end. As the car was bodykitted it made it more difficult to see the rust on the sills, as far as I'm aware MOT requirements are not allowed to poke holes in rust so its hard to say if it would have passed or not.

 

The specialist, thinking the bodywork had recently been done quite reasonably but incorrectly decided not to check the sills/bodywork for corosion.

 

The intial complaint was childish, as was the response to some extent however I can understand why the specialist would repond in such a way, they offered to replace damaged parts (which no one can proove either way of how it was) FOC after some tooing and fro'ing. Now I would never expect a garage specialist or otherwise to retap a hole and put a new bolt in if a fixing were to break, unless you were paing £150+ an hour - there isnt enough days in the week to start messing about doing that.

 

In this case I do think the specialist should refund the cost, if anything to shut the OP up.

 

However i do feel the OP is annoyed at the state of the car and looking for somone to blame just to cheer them selves up, this is of course my honest opinion.

 

Overall both of you, you win some you loose some in order to save face the specialist should issue the refund and an apology, the OP should take on board the lessons of communicating properly and giving people a break from time to time, people are only human they do make mistakes.

 

ps how on earth can the specialist rectify and issue with the cambelt scraping if you hadnt mentioned it to them before pouring out the story on here?

 

bit harsh there bud, the original complaint was about the screw used to secure the radiator bracket. a simple phone call to say there was a snapped bolt and how to proceed would of surficed and also cured this issue of putting a new hole in the vehicle.

 

Im sure had someone used a self tapping screw to fix something thats snapped on your own car, you would not be best pleased about it.

 

300zx's are not just cars to their owners, they are prised possessions.

Yes it is a UK car. The rust that I knew about is under the radiator and is a known problem where Nissan for some reason put a peice of sponge which holds water and causes rust. This has absolutely nothing to do with the state of sills. The bodykit cover the sides but the bottom of the sills is completely open and visible - so in my mind there is no excuse why this should be missed on an inspection. I have absolutely no idea why the garage thought the bodywork had just been done as he knew it had sat on my drive for 2 years.

 

I don't believe it was childish but that is obviously your opinion. It was not rude and in my opinion, any professional would have replied in a civil way and asked what the issue was.

 

Are you honestly saying that while working on your car, any garage should not fix a broken bolt that was damaged while they were attempting to remove it? I'm sorry, but I just don't believe that but again, it is your opinion.

 

You could not be more wrong about me trying to blame the garage. I paid what they asked for a job and in my opinion, something has not been repaired properly and and inspection has not been fully carried out. How on earth is that blaming the garage for the state of my car???

 

I completely agree mistakes are made, I keep saying that! It's how people resolve them that I care about!

 

I don't expect him to resolve the cambelt scraping, I have no asked the garage to. I stated I have to sort that out as I'm sure the garage would rather never see me or my car again.

bit harsh there bud, the original complaint was about the screw used to secure the radiator bracket. a simple phone call to say there was a snapped bolt and how to proceed would of surficed and also cured this issue of putting a new hole in the vehicle.

 

Im sure had someone used a self tapping screw to fix something thats snapped on your own car, you would not be best pleased about it.

 

300zx's are not just cars to their owners, they are prised possessions.

 

I'm glad someone understands why I'm annoyed at whats happened to my Z. It cost me a lot of money and I've owned it for 15 years and still love them. All I asked for is a proper job to get it back on the road - nothing else!

So glad I'm getting out of the zed scene these cars are nothing but trouble and not one garage in the land takes the same pride in other peoples cars as they would their own!! If they did they wouldnt be in business very long!!

I agree with both sides

 

As a zed owner i would be well pissed off with a screw through the bracket. I was pissed off when they wrote their name all over my new petrol filter in marker pen, thought it looked shite. From previous experience i would have expected a call to say sorry broke it, what sort of fix would you like.

 

As someone who runs a business, 1. You asked for a free bracket and you got one, i see this as requirements met. 2. Your first email about the bracket at no point explains that you tthink the specialist did the bodge or that you feel it is unaceptable, if i got an email like that just asking me to explain a picture without context then i would either give the requested explanation or reply in a sarcastic manner. I'm not going to even suggest which one you got as it clearly could be either

 

As for what to expect. From previous experience with both my zeds and recently sending my other car to a specialist, i think most owners expect too much from an inspection or health check. They expect the car to be perfect with trouble free times ahead. I was certainly very disapointed in my recent (non zed) health check.

So i feel that loose conections after a trailer ride cant be blamed on a garage and isnt something that i now feel would be picked up on a health check unless faulty on the day. However blocked targa drains and missing sills i would be disapointed werent found, especially as you were told it was in excelent condition. I guess you have had an admision that this was an oversight, not much use to you, but then again what can the garage do at this stage other than apologise.

 

As smithy says its the abilaty to misread the origonal comunication that has led to unfortunate escalation. Same problem where on a forum people can take offence when none was intended

Oh, and having been"disapointed" to various degrees , or suspected I should be "disapointed" by a lot of traders on here over the years i feel your pain.

If i've read this right you took a UK model in that you knew had rust issues at the front end. As the car was bodykitted it made it more difficult to see the rust on the sills, as far as I'm aware MOT requirements are not allowed to poke holes in rust so its hard to say if it would have passed or not.

 

The specialist, thinking the bodywork had recently been done quite reasonably but incorrectly decided not to check the sills/bodywork for corosion.

 

The intial complaint was childish, as was the response to some extent however I can understand why the specialist would repond in such a way, they offered to replace damaged parts (which no one can proove either way of how it was) FOC after some tooing and fro'ing. Now I would never expect a garage specialist or otherwise to retap a hole and put a new bolt in if a fixing were to break, unless you were paing £150+ an hour - there isnt enough days in the week to start messing about doing that.

 

In this case I do think the specialist should refund the cost, if anything to shut the OP up.

 

However i do feel the OP is annoyed at the state of the car and looking for somone to blame just to cheer them selves up, this is of course my honest opinion.Overall both of you, you win some you loose some in order to save face the specialist should issue the refund and an apology, the OP should take on board the lessons of communicating properly and giving people a break from time to time, people are only human they do make mistakes.

 

ps how on earth can the specialist rectify and issue with the cambelt scraping if you hadnt mentioned it to them before pouring out the story on here?

 

cant understand your thinking in this thread Chris:confused1: comments like that makes me think your looking to the future with your servicing needs:thumbdown:

I honeslty think the picture of the radiator bracket hanging by a screw was self explanatory and they would obviously know what I meant as they did it :(

 

OK I can accept that a loose connection can happen even though the car has just been put on and off a trailer but the sills I still cannot accept and why I want the refund.

 

That's why I rang Jeff for an explanation after the initial email obviously went wrong. He took offense to me saying I question what would happen to a bolt that was inaccessible and then hung up.

 

Jeff, I would just like you to explain a few things as you obviously know about this post.

 

1. Why the radiator bracket was repaired in such a way.

2. Why will you not refund the inspection fee as quite obviously, a major fault with the rusted sills was missed.

 

I feel that is not much to ask at all.

 

Vijay

This is a very sad affair.............

 

My 300 has been in a specialists hands; and turned out like a bag of shite!!!, but with others, ended in first class!!! But, If I had the experience Vijay had, I would be a little pissed to say the least. There are some 300 mechanics out there who are trustworthy and totally reliable....... And there are some who are not!!!! And will all know who they are!?!?!

 

I trust Zedworld as a reputable company and would take my 300 to them always.......... But I would not take it to other 300 specialists on this forum, and we all know why........... If I had the experience Vijay has had, I would not be happy........

 

Alz.

Edited May 29, 201213 yr by AlanZ

if you take the screw out you will be able to see if its a fresh drill in the cross member as ive been in engineering for alot of years you can tell if its fresh or not, even if its been sitting for a month,,my uk zed has been to the not mentioned specialist and i got first class service and still runs like the day it left the factory but i do understand your frustration

Wow, that was such a long read.

 

ZX-TT - I'm really happy with the guy I normally use down in Manchester. He's brilliant and always happy to help. To be quite Frank, I think he's the best around and takes food care of my car. I had a really small problem which I mentioned and straight away he said if I get it back to him he would sort it for me... And he did. Just saying lol.

 

 

 

In regards to this issue, I work in a customer relations team for one of the countries largest insurers, not that it matters like but I deal with complaints all day.

 

I think the whole communication thing here is a big issue, that's for both parties here.

I think ultimately jeff has submitted to the fact they missed the sills and possibly the bolt/bracket.

I don't think jeff can now turn round and say well we housed your car as he should have made it clear there could be costs here, as he didn't then I dont feel he can consider charging for it.

 

I kind of think you should agree to split the fee 50/50 to put an end to this, as this will save potential negative press against jeff and his business. ultimately the business doesn't need it as it may make people think twice about using it which could cost more in the long run. You had the cost of the service and any other work you might have done. I can see why vijay is upset as he feels that such big things like the sills shouldn't have been missed.

 

Had jeff noticed the sills, they'd have still been in the same state and there would still be the cost to repair. I feel if jeff was to offer you a 50/50 refund on the checks you should consider acceptin this and no more to be said.

 

This is just my 2p worth. I just think it'd be good if you could come to an amicable agreement

I think in this instance jeff has shown poor service and I know everyone here would say the same had it been their car this was done too. I know it must be getting harder to make a living off just zeds but it's no excuse for letting standards slip.

I have to say despite who is at fault here this thread should never had allowed to see the light of day

Why not? If both sides are happy for it to be here. Gives each side a chance to reflect and get other opinions. And ultimately as a zed owner I like that fact I can hear about service of garages I might use, whether good or bad. Doesn't removing the thread leave us in the dark. If this thread helps both parties come to a conclusion then I think it's good. Maybe when its done move to a members area or something?

we have let the thread run as initially (apart from a mistake that was rectified) he never actually mentioned who it was. jeff replied.

 

we were then in a strange predicament. as long as the thread doesnt go into a slagging match, i see no reason to close it unless one of the 2 parties involved asks.

 

Please remember although this is one persons unhappy out come, there have been a whole load of those who are satisfied with work undertaken, i for one still get information from said party and i trust it, would this thread change my mind from taking my zed there (if i didn't do my own work) no it wouldn't.

 

Everyone has a bad day. understandably sometimes things get out of hand between people.

Problem is Vijay is not a subscribed member but he's only too happy to use this forum as tool of unrest because of his bad experience. This needs to be settled off the forum in my opinion.

Once the situation has been resolved or as and when both parties mutually agree that further resolution is unachievable, that would be the time to close this thread.

Whether the issues raised could have been dealt with in other ways or whether they should have been aired in public is neither here nor there now, as they have been aired and people are now aware of the dispute. To that end, in order to dispel any possible conspiracy theories or accusations of biase (in my opinion) the thread has to run its course. Anything other would not help either party I feel and could be detremental to future Zedworld business.

 

 

...and if all else fails

 

 

 

 

no but on a serious note, I hope both parties can resolve this unfortunate dispute.