Not wishing to start another "SE is best" row but i had one of their MAXFLOW twin airfilter jobbies put onto my car back in December 2000.

 

Deciding to give my ZED some TLC i cleaned it top to toe on Saturday and took off the Z badge panel in between the headlights to clean all round it.I was expecting to be in stunned at the delights of the SE NISSAN MAXFLOW airfilter system and what did i find was....Wait for it.....Wait..... two paper cylindrical air filters pushed...YES PUSHED onto the W shaped twin pipe unit made by SE. There was no airtight seal between the filters and the plastic W pipe and to top it all off the filters were not even securely attached to the W pipe,moved,and almost fell off when i touched them!!!

 

This has definately put to rest any doubt in my mind about what a complete load of TOSS SE MAXFLOW airfilter system is.

What really made me laugh was when i took the W pipe and PAPER units with me to my local Halfords to see if i could find a suitable K&N Or Jamex replacement pop charger with the same diameter attachment as the PAPER units, only to be told by the young Halfords employee, and i Quote....

 

"they're off a TOYOTA HILUX PICKUP TRUCK aint they??!!"

 

And upon checking a new Toyota hilux airfilter against my SE MAXFLOW unit bugger me up the backside if i havn't just paid £300 for a piece of absolute dogshit from the makers of TOSS themselves....It was identical to a TOYOTA HILUX unit!!!!!!!!

 

I do,for all those SE NISSAN lovers among us, just in case anyone is interested in buying this quality piece of engineering,still have this "MAXFLOW" system in my garage and as yet is not lining the bottom of my dustbin. anyone interested....any, YES ANY sensible offer over £2.50p Secures such an item!!!

 

Now here comes the disclaimer......

********************************************

This post is entirely based on factual evidence in my posession and is not just the opinion of the originator. It bears no relation to the rest of the workmanship that SE NISSAN have and will produce in the past present or future.

********************************************

I am very angry and pissed off at having spent all this money on such a pile of WANK.

I do NOT mind spending money on my ZED if the work produced is going to be of better quality than that of a 4 year old making things out of Playdoh and in future will not be putting work their way even for servicing!!!

 

Paul

 

 

Got any pics of this amazing bit of kit

 

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Originally posted by JayPSC:

Got any pics of this amazing bit of kit

 

 

I'll see what i can do for ya....I take it by your extra rapid response that you're well interested then??!!

 

Paul

Oh dear, you should have gone for the cybercraft twin kit, more dosh at £240.00 but quality and good fitment, don't come cheap...

smithy

 

Here's a pic of the SE system ...

 

 

Originally posted by PAUL_HOWELL:

I'll see what i can do for ya....I take it by your extra rapid response that you're well interested then??!!

 

Paul

 

Well interested to see what could justify them to charge £300 for £30 worth of parts

Sounds an amazing piece of engineering lol

 

Almost as good as the amazing induction kit we made out of a K&N & a bit of old exhaust...

 

------------------

Hairsy,

 

didn't realise you had their dual intake system. What was your opinion on the quality of fitting (eg could you just push it off etc) and did ou feel it gave decent power benefit or was it fitted along with a load of other mods so you couldn't really tell?

The SE setup has always worked well for me in terms of performance. I did the JeffTT Headlight upgrade and had to take the cones and assembly off. Although the filters just push on they do fit tight.

 

Having looked at Smithy's piece of work I agree with you mark! I think it's worth spending the extra wonga on his kit, looks like real quality. Maybe you should do a deal with SE Smithy!!

 

Grant

I had the same problem as you with not a great fit. I spoke to Pete about it and he said that the supplier changed the size of the fitting slightly to a larger one. They then produced a new Y piece (you know what I mean by that!) that fitted the now larger holes but the old ones needed sealant.

 

In terms of power, I actually replaced it with a JWT (i.e. K&N). I couldn't tell the difference between the two.

 

Dave

 

P.S. Couple of extra points - there IS a greater filtration area on the SE system than any other I've seen (incl. JWT twin). Also, I think the filtration is probably better than washable element filters. It's probably horses for courses. As I say, at the end of the day I couldn't tell the difference on performance but who knows if it was actually a more effective filter ?

 

[This message has been edited by Hairsy (edited 15-05-2002).]

I have the same filter and my elements fit reasonably well but I have used some silicon for extra security. It's not like there's enough space in there for them to fall off or anything. Their reasoning for doing it this way is large filter area and cheap replacement filters. Summat like £6 ea. I think, and as someone mentioned above they are available from Halfords. No complaints really (see my power figures posted previously) but it is a fairly expensive piece of kit considering the 'prettiness factor' - but I don't care too much about that because it's hidden under the centre panel. The only improvement I would make is to use K&N elements, but I don't think there are any available that would fit, plus a pair of those would be pretty expensive for probably no gain whatsoever.

Just run a single intake at the front and and save yourself a whole load of space and trouble (and i have hks single intake check my previous power results)

 

 

 

Originally posted by 300z:

Just run a single intake at the front and and save yourself a whole load of space and trouble (and i have hks single intake check my previous power results)

 

 

I agree. I think that given the amount of power all the people here are putting out that there will be nothing to choose between the various aftermarket filters.

One point here. The filters are not properly fixed. The filters could come out - even if they seem like they won't, if they aint fixed in they could. If ANY unfiltered air gets to the turbos you could be looking at some serious damage to the compressor blades!!! Even if the filter drops out slightly surely some air could get between the element and the base...

 

Secondly, I really can't see the thinking in the design here. The idea of having 2 filters is so that you can have a filter for each bank of the engine, eliminating the T just after the MAF sensor which is known to cause flow restrictive turbulence. Why then put an extra T into the system? Also, the flow is governed by the largest restriction, which in the case of the intake is the single MAF. Therefore it doesn't matter one bit how easily 2 filters breathe if you still have the single MAF restricting the flow... Before anyone brings up the fact that 2 filters are better than one in terms of reducing the flow at the filter, it would be a far better option to simply increase the size of one filter than to have an overcomplicated design utilising 2.

 

Ahh thats better.....

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

I'd have to agree with andy on this one (for once! LOL)

Surely the best ones use a filter straight onto the pipe at each side with either 2 MAF's or a MAF on one side and the ECU set up to compensate for the doubled airflow.

??

 

once you have a good unrestrictive air filter your limitations are how much you can flow through a single MAS. You could fit a filter the size of a dustbin but the engine will still only draw in the air that it needs.

Paul

COULDN'T HAVE PUT IT BETTER MYSELF ANDY...This was exactly my point along with the fact that that the unit is a piece of shit!!!

I just cant believe that SE would use a cheap "PAPER" element in place/favour of a pair of foam units. Just totally beats me how this became a performance part,and with the bad fitment SE put my turbos at risk of getting some BAD air into the engine and doin some real damage!!!

 

All in all i'd just like to say a big thanks to SE......NOT!!!

 

I too have the single HKS unit and i have to say it looks and sounds the nuts!!

 

Thanks everyone for your input

 

Paul

Enjoying this thread !

 

Re the single MAS issues, I personally believe that a single MAS has far less restriction than the filters we are talking about. In fact, I'd place a lot of money on that. If people agree with me (or at least prepared to accept the possibility), then increased filter area is going to be a benefit.

 

Having said that, I agree with Warren (and others) that far the vast majority of us, a single filter set up is probably sufficient. There WILL be a difference with a twin set up but not noticeable through feel.

 

No offence intended in this bit ... Not wishing to sound big headed, I know a thing or two about the dynamics of air and how it moves. It is not actually true to say that a twin filter set up going through a single MAS will flow worse than a twin filter with each filter feeding a bank exclusively. This may not seem logical but it is true. If a system is designed well, it can often lead to improved flow. If this wasn't true then top racing cars would have a separate exhaust pipe for each cylinder.

 

Notwithstanding all of the above, and even though I am a firm supporter of Pete R's engineering abilities, I doubt that he has done the physical calculations and benchmark tests to ensure that the design of his intake is enhanced by the two into one setup.

 

I have personally seen with my own eyes on a rolling road, a huge improvement in performance of a car which would not run right on the JWT twin set up which was switched over to the SE twin set up.

 

Dave

oh! shit if saw this thread last week i wouldent have bought that pile of crap i now have in my engine bay, £200 does not justify what these filters are worth, the splash guard does not bolt down anywhere just stays loose in the engine bay, & now i have a wierd trumpet noise when i de-accelerate which is quite loud and annoying to say the least!!!

The spash guard does bolt down, but certain cars need a special support bracket. Call 'em - they'll know which bit you're talking about, I had the same problem.

 

Plus many cars, without a standard filter to muffle the intake, make the infamous 'goose honk' - enjoy it !

"It is not actually true to say that a twin filter set up going through a single MAS will flow worse than a twin filter with each filter feeding a bank exclusively".

 

Why is this the case surely 2 is better than 1 in this respect as you will get far more air through 2 than through 1 as the MAS will be the limiting part of the setup

 

"This may not seem logical but it is true. If a system is designed well, it can often lead to improved flow. If this wasn't true then top racing cars would have a separate exhaust pipe for each cylinder".

 

No i definately don't agree with this one as you are talking about getting gasses out of the engine rather than air flow in on a forced induction basis and the two principles are totally different!

 

Paul

 

[This message has been edited by PAUL_HOWELL (edited 20-05-2002).]

im afraid your wrong there.

The single mas is the restricting.

The factory Nissan airflow meter is very restrictive.

the mas only goes up to 5.115 volts which limits the ammount of horespower you can obtain with a sdingle airflow meter to 450bhp No matter what you do.

So you can have 6 air filters and you wont go more than that. A single air filter can flow that ammount no problem, so unless you have replaced your airflow meter, or bypassed it you wont be able to flow more than that given.

Just a quick point with the ref to exhausts - not all cylinders fire at the same time!!! Since the exhaust exits each cylinder at a different time then the flow from one cylinder can help the flow from another cylinder - if it was a big bang style engine (all fire at once) then I'm sure an exhaust for each cylinder would be prefferable....

 

I love this :d

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Originally posted by andyduff:

Just a quick point with the ref to exhausts - not all cylinders fire at the same time!!! Since the exhaust exits each cylinder at a different time then the flow from one cylinder can help the flow from another cylinder - if it was a big bang style engine (all fire at once) then I'm sure an exhaust for each cylinder would be prefferable....

 

I love this :d

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Exactly what i was trying to get at!!!

 

Paul

 

 

Doh,

 

OK instead of wasting my time researching the subject i will just say - ITS CRAP Muahahahahahhahaha

 

since some people will just come out with it anyway why should be bother - but hell since i dont learn from my own mistakes here goes my take on it:

 

That basic design issue of the JWT Dual Pop system was two fold A) increase the Air flow potential of the engine B) decrease spool up time of the Turbochargers.

 

Basically their Intake uses one straight thru pipe and One Pipe with the stock MAS on the other side.

 

 

 

You can't just put this in your Car and expect it to run you need the JWT Dual POP program or it will run like shit.

 

As i haven't taken a MAS appart i can't argue as to weather this is a severe limiting factor of the engine Airflow and since 3 people whos opinions i respect have voiced there views on it i will obstain from comment there. Altho on acutally talking to some people about it, altho i dont want to upset Haisy coz he is one of the few people on here that doesn't talk shit all the time -If Warren is correct which lets face it - he allways is - then the SE design is limited still to 5.115V - 450bhp - where as on the JWT design the MAS reading is effectively doubled on the ECU thus giving a max hp potential of 900bhp with correct Air fual Ratio - this is not taking into account any Airflow turbulance issues associated with the MAS design just the MAX reading it can supply the ECU

 

 

The other advatange of the JWT is the reduced turbo lag that comes from the elimination of the stock T peice so the SE kit keeps the T and adds another one hence - Lag could be worse but deffinatly not better.

 

So in short the possible benefit of this system is potentially imporved airflow (MAS decision still pending) over that of a Single filter as you have more intake area.

 

The downside is that you have the chance of more turbulance thus slower spool up (and fuck mine are slow enuff as it is) and also a filter that could kill engine + turbos altho i would say the chance of that happening is not too great to be fair.

 

In summation i would not recommend people that dont plan to get bigger turbos and injectors to buy the JWT Dual pop it is not worth the expende and i reckon a decent blitz intake will match that SE paper one for flow rate near enuff and offer more peice of mind to the owner.

 

------------------

Z ya

 

Nico91TT

 

 

Dont buy this game, Don't look at it , infact dont even take a fuckin shit on the worthless peice of CRAP

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Nico (edited 20-05-2002).]

Originally posted by 300z:

im afraid your wrong there.

The single mas is the restricting.

The factory Nissan airflow meter is very restrictive.

the mas only goes up to 5.115 volts which limits the ammount of horespower you can obtain with a sdingle airflow meter to 450bhp No matter what you do.

So you can have 6 air filters and you wont go more than that. A single air filter can flow that ammount no problem, so unless you have replaced your airflow meter, or bypassed it you wont be able to flow more than that given.

 

And that's exactly why i've replaced my MAS and now have MAP sensors on my Autronics!!!

 

This has been a gr8 thread and i hope it has helped at least some of us along the way.

 

Paul

 

 

A thread where we can have different views without calling each other names - we should have it framed !

 

Re Warren's point on the voltage reading of the MAS - I hadn't considered that. I've no idea what the peak reading is with the various setups but if flow reaches a point where the MAS won't pick it up any more then that will make fuelling a little challenging to get right !

 

On the comparison with exhaust, yes the differing firing times of the cylinders are a factor but there are a hell of a lot of explosions going on while any one bit of exhaust gas is passing from the start to the end of the exhaust. Therefore, I think that to look at the exhaust as totally different to the inlet is over-simpliying things.

 

I'm really not (yet) convinced that the inlet system & exhaust system are that different in their principles. Surely the JWT / Blitz inlet set up is the reverse of a 6 into 2 into 1 exhaust. The JWT twin pop is the reverse of a 6 into 2 exhaust. And the SE is the reverse of a 6 into 2 into 1 into 2 setup !

 

As for why it CAN be better to go for a single setup, it's to do with the oscillations and frequency of those oscillations within the various bits of pipework.

 

I don't claim to be able to explain the reasons why but I've heard enough to be convinced that there is an effect that comes into play (through A level physics and in studies for pilot exams where venturi effect is discussed).

 

But, as I said on this thread or another similar recent one, I doubt that anyone has ever actually done the calculations for the Z - it would be a nightmare !

 

Ultimately, the JWT twin setup can flow more air once the limit of the airflow capacity of the single MAS becomes the limiting factor.

 

But does anyone know for certain that it really IS the limiting factor ? (I certainly don't know).

 

By the way, I'm not using this to say that any of the setups is better than others. My own experience is that I can't tell the difference. Just enjoy a decent discussion between us non experts (well, I speak for myself at least).

 

What sort of inlet systems are used in F1 ? Anyone know ?

 

Dave