here in bournemouth theyre throwing there toys out the pram. over the plans to increase tuition fees. good stand up for what you believe in, here in england we let the goverment bully us about far too much. they argue that there not getting much time in the classroom for there money as it is, and increasing tution fees will make it impossible for poor families to go. now heres some counter points.

firstly the majority are not hardworking and not interested in working they are there because they couldnt decide what else to do and didnt want to get a job. so they went to uni got away from mum and dad and took up media. they then plan to not earn x amount for x amount of years to avoid paying back what they owe. great, so basically they get to spend a few hours a week sat down not turn theyre work in on time because theyre too busy socialising and watching crap tv, and then were left to pay the tab off. at which point they moan. grow up seriously.

so now theres police working overtime costing money them rioting and trashing stuff costing us money and the money they will spend on beer this afternoon once there bored is also the taxpayers, and you will never get it back. both sides need to take a long hard look. students need to grow up and be a little more career focused, youve had 18 years of free education time to start paying, or investing in your future more accuratly. the goverment needs to legistate better about who gets what and what they back, if they had jobs which is totally feasable for most to work full or longer weeks parttime, and stopped burning cash in the pub and spent a bit more free time studying not leaving it to the last minute. they would be in far less of a finanicial state. if a mother or two can raise her kids study at night and work full time im damn sure an 18 year old lad can force himself to do a bit more than watch jermery kyle all day.

if you want to be a professional, doctor, dentist whatever and you have the grades then its your right to go but it should be manditory that the right people are getting these oppertunities not people who are sort of interested because they cant think of anything else. and that they are working hard, more learning and earning less pissing it up the wall.

i watch my friends that have recently graduated or are graduating and i wanna slap em. there is no point training for a job that doesnt exist, and equally there is no point spending all taht cash and time to do nothing with it. common sense has gone out the window! and are we gonna protest because we disagree, no where too busy working to fund there day off!

So if education should be free is the tax system going to pay for me to redo my Gas Safe for the next 5 years then, £2400.00 ??

 

Quote:- In fact, I've never been to hospital - so why the fook should I pay for all you tossers who keep hurting yourselves and getting sick. Fook off to some other country you fooking accident prone bunch of weazing, sneazing toss bags..

 

Most of that cost comes from the NI contibution and beleve me you will get your moneys worth out of the NHS in the long term.

Edited November 25, 201015 yr by gruntpa64
put in quote

Sorry - I thought this was a thread about boats and planes:winkiss:

i wasnt having a pop at people who what to better themselves everyone has the right to that. however from my expeniences with the people i know who have gone to uni teh majority are there because they really dont know what else to do. its an easy option in there minds. i was in the same boat, but rather than do a corse get in loads of debt to get a second rate degree or worse that gets me no where. I opted to get a job, many people including my college tutour looked down on me fior this because i wasnt going the accepted correct route. everyone taht goes to college seems to go on and do a degree these days, and if they dont get the results they planned they change the corse becuase there desperate to go to uni, as its presented as the only option. To my mind though university should be about people improving their lives and yes tahts going to be expensive, but life is. Thats why we work hard to earn things. the fact taht someone without a job can stand there shouting about how much more there fees will be when theyre not goning to be using the opertunity theve been given is stupid and frankly quite childish. working on the basis taht fees are currently 3k per term a four year corse is gonna put you in 48,000 debt through tution fees. with the planned rise of upto 3 times this your looking at close to 150,000. this will only be the top unis requesting this fee though. the whiole system needs reforming. the hike is crazy but so is the actions of SOME(as a few have pointed out) students. both sides need to get there act together, and reform the situation. i personally would like to see students doing more of a apprenticship style corse witha workplacement and lectures. 3 hours work a week does not contistue as full time. and does not make you exempt from working a full job. this would make the students better off finaically ensure the right people were getting the places, and that people are studying for jobs that exist, not token degrees for degrees sake. dont even get me started on the great unwashed that live off benifits and fiddling. and i actually believe that the health care system as it stands is also a joke the people taht work those jobs work so hard too hard, get paid too little and the system is too open to exploitation. if we all had to pay a nomial charge for heath insurnce dirsectly and without it you get nothing it would solve alot of problems. this country is becoming a joke

this country is becoming a joke

 

I think you will find that started in 2001 as i remember coming home back from Germany on leave and noticing differences within the country that made me think that it was not going the right way

Just bored students, FACT

 

I say get the water cannons out next time they riot

So if education should be free is the tax system going to pay for me to redo my Gas Safe for the next 5 years then, £2400.00 ??

 

Quote:- In fact, I've never been to hospital - so why the fook should I pay for all you tossers who keep hurting yourselves and getting sick. Fook off to some other country you fooking accident prone bunch of weazing, sneazing toss bags..

 

Most of that cost comes from the NI contibution and beleve me you will get your moneys worth out of the NHS in the long term.

 

Sorry gruntpa - you missed my point - I don't think that at all. I was using it as an example of people not wanting to contribute towards something they think they don't get any return from. As it happens I have been to hospital and actually think the NHS do a pretty good job.

 

HAve a re-read and see if it makes anymore sense now...

 

Cheers bud

Im a student , doing a 4yr Masters Degree in Mechanical/Motorsport Engineering . I will have over 30k in Student loans to payback apon completion - Uni is not free, not cheap and certainly not an easy option for people doing a highend degree.

 

I have seen some obscure degree's listed, but its certaintly not "most students" , my course is one of the hardest to get on to and hardest to complete, but with the highest earning potential upon completion.

 

For me this was a major life changing decision to take at the age of 30, to better my future career, you cant take up a career as a "proper" engineer without a full engineering degree.

 

Im sure there are some who go to Uni to avoid work or just go for the social aspect, but they soon drop out or get kicked out when they cant keep up.

 

But these fee increases would add up to £20k across the degree on top of the current costs, and thats no small change !

Edited November 25, 201015 yr by Yowser

Im a student , doing a 4yr Masters Degree in Mechanical/Motorsport Engineering . I will have over 30k in Student loans to payback apon completion - Uni is not free, not cheap and certainly not an easy option for people doing a highend degree.

 

I have seen some obscure degree's listed, but its certaintly not "most students" , my course is one of the hardest to get on to and hardest to complete, but with the highest earning potential upon completion.

 

For me this was a major life changing decision to take at the age of 30, to better my future career, you cant take up a career as a "proper" engineer without a full engineering degree.

 

Im sure there are some who go to Uni to avoid work or just go for the social aspect, but they soon drop out or get kicked out when they cant keep up.

 

But these fee increases would add up to £20k across the degree on top of the current costs, and thats no small change !

 

what field do you hope to go into Dave??

As you may be able to tell from the rest of this post, I am more than pissed off with the situation we find ourselves in as a nation. Students have a right to protest but there are far more structural issues here. Over the past 10 years or so it seems like any old person can find their way onto a state subsidised course, yes education should be for all but should a degree? This has led to education post 16 being attractive for dossers who can get a few more years of fun out of life whilst someone else picks up the tab. There will always be people that live of daddy and mummy, there always has been but the problem with the system we have now is more than that. If they want to doss it is their choice and should be their loss, at present there seems little consequence though as people can find themselves easily on benefits after dossing about at university for a few years.

What is needed is a focus. People should be doing courses that lead to real jobs and the whole country, government and economy including the private sector need to get their acts together to tackle this one given the mess we are in now. That way there would be businesses with a supply of quality people that meet their needs, more motivation and pathways to progress. Hopefully less courses available to dossers as there would be no real progression into a real job etc. just upping fees is not the solution as some people from poorer backgrounds will become excluded when they could have performed equally as well or better then one of their more well off counterparts. This country has had it wrong for so long.

I deal with delagations from around the world including China and when their students go on a course it is with a clear purpose and motivation in mind, it is often backed by a private sector business and it works. Now we dont want to be like china but we do need to get a focus. Give young people a chance to succeed instead of offering them up more meaningless crap that will not cut it in the real world and help people to make something of themselves. If people dont want to help themselves out when they are presented with the opportunity they they should not get any reward.

I am not particularly disagreeing with any view on this forum but I think that the problems are just part of a far bigger one that needs cracking including the state of our welfare state and public sector. The fact is nobody has all the answers, the politicians certainly dont, so everyone needs to pull together to work this through, sadly I feel many wont.

Too many people only look out for themselves these days and could not give a toss about other people regardless of faith, wealth etc, this is the way we have become as a nation. I see this every day. There are some cracking people out there both young and old, however they are an ever reducing percentage of the population.

Lets face it we are in a right old mess that none of us made, we need economic growth, we need more jobs a state system that is fit for its purpose and a country that will then create more opportunity for more people. Everyone that works hard should benefit be they employed, self employed etc. No effort no reward simple as that. If people try then they should get help. Freeloaders not welcome. Well more like freeloading will not be possible if we had our act together as there would be nothing for them to claim. Now would that not be a big motivation to do something with the gift of life and for families to work together. Thats my 2p worth.

Toys have gone out the pram now. HAHAHA

 

Vote passed in England student fees to go up.

 

VERY good decision in my opinion.

As you may be able to tell from the rest of this post, I am more than pissed off with the situation we find ourselves in as a nation. Students have a right to protest but there are far more structural issues here. Over the past 10 years or so it seems like any old person can find their way onto a state subsidised course, yes education should be for all but should a degree? This has led to education post 16 being attractive for dossers who can get a few more years of fun out of life whilst someone else picks up the tab. There will always be people that live of daddy and mummy, there always has been but the problem with the system we have now is more than that. If they want to doss it is their choice and should be their loss, at present there seems little consequence though as people can find themselves easily on benefits after dossing about at university for a few years.

What is needed is a focus. People should be doing courses that lead to real jobs and the whole country, government and economy including the private sector need to get their acts together to tackle this one given the mess we are in now. That way there would be businesses with a supply of quality people that meet their needs, more motivation and pathways to progress. Hopefully less courses available to dossers as there would be no real progression into a real job etc. just upping fees is not the solution as some people from poorer backgrounds will become excluded when they could have performed equally as well or better then one of their more well off counterparts. This country has had it wrong for so long.

I deal with delagations from around the world including China and when their students go on a course it is with a clear purpose and motivation in mind, it is often backed by a private sector business and it works. Now we dont want to be like china but we do need to get a focus. Give young people a chance to succeed instead of offering them up more meaningless crap that will not cut it in the real world and help people to make something of themselves. If people dont want to help themselves out when they are presented with the opportunity they they should not get any reward.

I am not particularly disagreeing with any view on this forum but I think that the problems are just part of a far bigger one that needs cracking including the state of our welfare state and public sector. The fact is nobody has all the answers, the politicians certainly dont, so everyone needs to pull together to work this through, sadly I feel many wont.

Too many people only look out for themselves these days and could not give a toss about other people regardless of faith, wealth etc, this is the way we have become as a nation. I see this every day. There are some cracking people out there both young and old, however they are an ever reducing percentage of the population.

Lets face it we are in a right old mess that none of us made, we need economic growth, we need more jobs a state system that is fit for its purpose and a country that will then create more opportunity for more people. Everyone that works hard should benefit be they employed, self employed etc. No effort no reward simple as that. If people try then they should get help. Freeloaders not welcome. Well more like freeloading will not be possible if we had our act together as there would be nothing for them to claim. Now would that not be a big motivation to do something with the gift of life and for families to work together. Thats my 2p worth.

 

Sounds spot on to me mate........:sorcerer:

 

And as for the protesting; I have nothing against peaceful protest. It is everyone's democratic right in a free society - however there is no excuse for the protests to end in violence and mindless destruction of someone elses property. Fact.

 

Anyone participating in or inciting such violent behaviour should and must be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Whether in the case of the student protests referred to herein; or the more "radical" (you know what I mean) protests we have come to see in recent years.

 

Allowing such wanton violence and destruction will not gain protesters the support of the masses (which they crave - or need - for their goals to be fulfilled) and may ultimately lead to anarchy. It's not the way of a civilized society.

 

Richard:cool3:

As you may be able to tell from the rest of this post, I am more than pissed off with the situation we find ourselves in as a nation. Students have a right to protest but there are far more structural issues here. Over the past 10 years or so it seems like any old person can find their way onto a state subsidised course, yes education should be for all but should a degree? This has led to education post 16 being attractive for dossers who can get a few more years of fun out of life whilst someone else picks up the tab. There will always be people that live of daddy and mummy, there always has been but the problem with the system we have now is more than that. If they want to doss it is their choice and should be their loss, at present there seems little consequence though as people can find themselves easily on benefits after dossing about at university for a few years.

What is needed is a focus. People should be doing courses that lead to real jobs and the whole country, government and economy including the private sector need to get their acts together to tackle this one given the mess we are in now. That way there would be businesses with a supply of quality people that meet their needs, more motivation and pathways to progress. Hopefully less courses available to dossers as there would be no real progression into a real job etc. just upping fees is not the solution as some people from poorer backgrounds will become excluded when they could have performed equally as well or better then one of their more well off counterparts. This country has had it wrong for so long.

I deal with delagations from around the world including China and when their students go on a course it is with a clear purpose and motivation in mind, it is often backed by a private sector business and it works. Now we dont want to be like china but we do need to get a focus. Give young people a chance to succeed instead of offering them up more meaningless crap that will not cut it in the real world and help people to make something of themselves. If people dont want to help themselves out when they are presented with the opportunity they they should not get any reward.

I am not particularly disagreeing with any view on this forum but I think that the problems are just part of a far bigger one that needs cracking including the state of our welfare state and public sector. The fact is nobody has all the answers, the politicians certainly dont, so everyone needs to pull together to work this through, sadly I feel many wont.

Too many people only look out for themselves these days and could not give a toss about other people regardless of faith, wealth etc, this is the way we have become as a nation. I see this every day. There are some cracking people out there both young and old, however they are an ever reducing percentage of the population.

Lets face it we are in a right old mess that none of us made, we need economic growth, we need more jobs a state system that is fit for its purpose and a country that will then create more opportunity for more people. Everyone that works hard should benefit be they employed, self employed etc. No effort no reward simple as that. If people try then they should get help. Freeloaders not welcome. Well more like freeloading will not be possible if we had our act together as there would be nothing for them to claim. Now would that not be a big motivation to do something with the gift of life and for families to work together. Thats my 2p worth.

 

that's a great, well thought out considered response, totally agree