Hi I was wondering if anyone knew how difficult it would be to keep ABS with a bigger brake kit or get it set up correctly. I have heard of peole fitting bigger brakes then having an accident because the wheels locked up. So can ABS be kept or reset for the new setup? how? Electronic jiggery pokery or a mechanical solution?

Safety is my consideration when looking to go down a bigger brake route.

The reason i hit the wall was because of the abs. If i didnt have it i would of skidded and stopped....

 

 

:rofl::rolleyes:

stenorth, you should never drive these cars without giving them your full attention.

 

to rely on driver aids is a mistake imo, driving without them does make you more part of the driving experience.

 

if you can't hack the thought of being without abs, be my guest and continue to use it. but have a read of car mads post...........

 

I was having a bad day yest, sorry for the ranting :p

 

what i meant was not that you shouldn't take care with a 300zx, you're spot on with that, it's more that most people in an emergency won't be able to do pumping brakes effectively.

 

Thinking about it, it's still a risk if plod catch you but i'd say if you want bigger brakes and can't afford or don't want something like the stoptech kit , then removing the abs fuse is probably safer than leaving it in situ.

Also remove the abs light behind the dash :)

, it's more that most people in an emergency won't be able to do pumping brakes effectively.

 

Nobody can pump the brakes as effectively as abs. I believe it shouldn't be removed, irrelevant of driver experience. Its about safety. My cousins life was saved once in a car accident because he wasn't wearing a seat belt. He got thrown from a car in an accident. Does that mean that we should remove seatbelts from our cars? I think not. There will always be exceptions, but an exception shouldn't create a norm IMHO

I know that it seems to be an unpopular opinion but i also think that ABS for road use is a safer option than no ABS. A few years ago a friend of mine had an accident in a brand new Golf GTi. It was winter and he was driving down an icy road towards a junction. There was already a car at the junction and when he tried to slow down the ABS cut in and no matter how hard he pressed on the pedal the car wouldn't slow down in time and he rear ended the other car.

 

When he arrived in work we were all treated to the story of how the ABS had caused him to hit the car as he was trying to stop and the brakes almost didn't seem to come on. It turned out later that he was traveling far too fast and all the ABS did was give him an opportunity to retain a little bit of steering to maybe avoid a crash in these situations.

 

In a standard braking system the ABS is always going to be a far better judge of when you're losing braking than any driver. It continuously monitors the rotation of all wheels and adjusts the braking in milliseconds so it'll always be faster than you. Do you think Lewis Hamilton or any of the Formula 1 "best drivers in the world" would be as fast without the electronics in their cars?

 

If your ABS kicks in then the chances are that you've already locked a wheel without realising it, which only goes to show that you've put yourself in a position that you didn't mean to and it's now down to the ABS to sort out your mess....

 

And a small note to Dunk300zxtt. I'm bet that almost all accidents happen cause people aren't giving their full attention to their situation and the car you're driving is almost irrelevant. I know that these cars can bite you big time but there are plenty of times when it's late on a motorway and you're ploughing on and someone stops suddenly in front of you when you'd normally panic and lock up where ABS would save your life.

 

Dave

Edited January 10, 200916 yr by hairdo2001

I was having a bad day yest, sorry for the ranting :p

 

what i meant was not that you shouldn't take care with a 300zx, you're spot on with that, it's more that most people in an emergency won't be able to do pumping brakes effectively.

 

Thinking about it, it's still a risk if plod catch you but i'd say if you want bigger brakes and can't afford or don't want something like the stoptech kit , then removing the abs fuse is probably safer than leaving it in situ.

We all have bad days :p

Yes, having a badly functiong ABS system is worse than having no ABS imo.

 

Also remove the abs light behind the dash :)

Yep, that will get you through an MOT ;)

 

I know that it seems to be an unpopular opinion but i also think that ABS for road use is a safer option than no ABS. A few years ago a friend of mine had an accident in a brand new Golf GTi. It was winter and he was driving down an icy road towards a junction. There was already a car at the junction and when he tried to slow down the ABS cut in and no matter how hard he pressed on the pedal the car wouldn't slow down in time and he rear ended the other car.

 

When he arrived in work we were all treated to the story of how the ABS had caused him to hit the car as he was trying to stop and the brakes almost didn't seem to come on. It turned out later that he was traveling far too fast and all the ABS did was give him an opportunity to retain a little bit of steering to maybe avoid a crash in these situations.

 

In a standard braking system the ABS is always going to be a far better judge of when you're losing braking than any driver. It continuously monitors the rotation of all wheels and adjusts the braking in milliseconds so it'll always be faster than you. Do you think Lewis Hamilton or any of the Formula 1 "best drivers in the world" would be as fast without the electronics in their cars?

 

If your ABS kicks in then the chances are that you've already locked a wheel without realising it, which only goes to show that you've put yourself in a position that you didn't mean to and it's now down to the ABS to sort out your mess....

 

And a small note to Dunk300zxtt. I'm bet that almost all accidents happen cause people aren't giving their full attention to their situation and the car you're driving is almost irrelevant. I know that these cars can bite you big time but there are plenty of times when it's late on a motorway and you're ploughing on and someone stops suddenly in front of you when you'd normally panic and lock up where ABS would save your life.

 

Dave

 

A modern ABS system is a very good thing, just take a look at this old thread: http://www.300zx.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=119968&highlight=mercedes

 

How the hell can a van stop quicker than a sportscar? It just shows how much ABS technology has come on in the last 20 years..........

 

Dont forget our ABS system was most likely designed in 1985, does anyone have any technology from 1985 any more? TV? Computer? Telephone? Answer: NO, it's all TOTALLY outdated by todays standards!

 

IMO, upgrading brakes and having a partially working ABS system is unsafe. Both of my cars have big brake upgrades, the black car has 345mm discs & stock calipers(abs removed) and the red car has Wilwood 335mm discs & calipers but still has the ABS system intact and active. But the first time it does something strange I'm ripping the entire system out, no question.

 

Maybe you could transplant an up to date 350z ABS system into our cars? But owing to the fact they use a CAN (controlled area network) system, I think it would be quite impossible :(

 

Rob.

 

Agree !

Agree !

 

:duffer: to you!

 

At least you're on my wavelength! :bow:

:duffer: to you!

 

At least you're on my wavelength! :bow:

 

I'd agree with that, the z's brakes where designed at a time when the technology was in its infancy, it rudimentary at best.

 

It goes without saying that a modern equivalent installed on a z with the appropriate parameters would be the best solution, **** knows how long that would take tho!

I'm with you on this too, hence my ABS sitting in a bin somewhere!

Hi I was wondering if anyone knew how difficult it would be to keep ABS with a bigger brake kit or get it set up correctly. I have heard of peole fitting bigger brakes then having an accident because the wheels locked up. So can ABS be kept or reset for the new setup? how? Electronic jiggery pokery or a mechanical solution?

Safety is my consideration when looking to go down a bigger brake route.

 

Way i see it you have three options then:

 

1. Replace and refurb the original setup - useful if all you do is spirited driving on the roads - gtr R33 calipers have been shown to work with abs setup

2. Go for a cheaper upgrade "big brake" kit and pull the fuse or ditch the abs all together

3. The more expensive specific designed for kits such as stoptech etc

4. Retro fit brake system (calipers,MC, ABS pump & ECU) from a modern car

 

going back to Rob's point, even with the stoptech kit, you're still using an archaic ABS system

I'd agree with that, the z's brakes where designed at a time when the technology was in its infancy, it rudimentary at best.

 

It goes without saying that a modern equivalent installed on a z with the appropriate parameters would be the best solution, **** knows how long that would take tho!

 

sorry, missed this post

4. Retro fit brake system (calipers,MC, ABS pump & ECU) from a modern car

 

going back to Rob's point, even with the stoptech kit, you're still using an archaic ABS system

 

No worries, true i missed that out, but no one on here that wants it will be able to do it and those with the technical no how won't be bothered.

 

If you can drive a TVR without any driving aids then i can't see why you can't drive this car without it. Just more carefully than your average car.

 

the only point is that your going to have to convince plod if the worst happens lol

Edited January 10, 200916 yr by stenorth
above

For the ABS to engage on older systems, you have to hit the brakes very hard in one go. They didn't work by a gradual increase in pressure to the brake pedal. As a result all sorts of incorrect claims were levelled at the earlier ABS setups, which was mainly down to driver ignorance.

 

Fortunately I have never needed to really test the ABS in my Zed and its parked inside at present, but I will test it to see if this is the case also, in addition to a commitment I gave on another post about comparing the braking distance of the Zed against my other 2 vehicles, 2001 530D and a 2001 4.6is X5.

4. Retro fit brake system (calipers,MC, ABS pump & ECU) from a modern car

 

I spent hours previously searching for somebody who can customise the ABS set-ups on cars and drew a blank. If anybody finds somebody, please post it here.

Thanks,

C

For the ABS to engage on older systems, you have to hit the brakes very hard in one go. They didn't work by a gradual increase in pressure to the brake pedal. As a result all sorts of incorrect claims were levelled at the earlier ABS setups, which was mainly down to driver ignorance.

 

Fortunately I have never needed to really test the ABS in my Zed and its parked inside at present, but I will test it to see if this is the case also, in addition to a commitment I gave on another post about comparing the braking distance of the Zed against my other 2 vehicles, 2001 530D and a 2001 4.6is X5.

 

It's not directly linked to the brake pedal action from what i understand. The speed sensor are effectively sending pulses to the ecu, the spacing between these gives a time that allows the abs ecu to reference against know times through it design parameters i.e size of wheel, torque produced by braking system etc - the sampling rate wouldn't be as high as a modern alternative sensor and the tolerances that the ecu references would be alot wider. This results in any change to wheel size, caliper clamping torque (pressure applied by calipers, distance caliper is from wheel centre) even the tyres to a certain extent. The more you change the original spec the closer you are to the limits of the abs parameters.

 

above is abit crude but in essence the abs is just applying and depressing the capilers to keep the wheels within the design parameters of deceleration, the calculation it makes are based on the original setup

I spent hours previously searching for somebody who can customise the ABS set-ups on cars and drew a blank. If anybody finds somebody, please post it here.

Thanks,

C

 

Nothings impossible but the cost=benefit probably explains why it hasn't been done.

>> Maybe you could transplant an up to date 350z ABS system into our cars?

 

I don't think this can be done..

You can upgrade the ECU that was used in the latest '99 spec model Z32's.

This is updated ecu and looks like it can be plug and play for older Zeds.

Good luck finding an '99 spec ABS ecu though.

 

Another point that is often overlooked (imo) and of which I think it has great influence on the way our brakes/abs behaves, is the fact that the MBC and ABS actuator are (too) far apart.

Because the actuator is in the back of the car, a lot of unnecessary length to the brake lines (esp. for the front brakes) is added.

 

All other performance models from Nissan (and other makes) have the actuator in the engine room and near the MBC.

Hey all

 

I have read this all with interest as I noticed recently on a track day that either I had a stone in my calipers or my ABS was kicking in at the slightest touch of the pedal. I have Ksports 8 pot 350mm front and 6 pot 330mm rear.

 

I wasnt sure if the ABS was kicking in to save me or if it was confused as the cars braking seemed on a par or better than most. I'll have to stamp on them and see what happens.

 

Jaffa you said you had disabled your ABS, did you just pull the fuse?

 

As I have a racelogic unit will pulling the fuse on the ABS disable the wheel speed sensors?

 

Cheers all

Jaffa you said you had disabled your ABS, did you just pull the fuse?

 

ABS unit/pump is in the bin and new brake lines fitted direct from Master Cylinder to each caliper

Hi all

 

Have spoken to Kev Duckworth at Ksports who said the following:

 

Hi,

 

I would suggest that the brakes are not at fault, it may be a ABS fault.

You could test this by removing the ABS fuse and seeing if the brakes themselves do actually lock up (and hence the ABS kicking in) or if you get better braking when the ABS is inactive this will confirm We have many customers using that setup, and many Nissan owners also swap to the Z32 brake master cylinder to give a shorter brake pedal to make heal and toe easier on track.

 

I am of course assuming that its not just an problem with how hard you are pressing the pedal.

 

 

Kev Duckworth

Explanation by Jeff of Zedworld about ABS - how & why it works etc :

 

I think you'll find it was from the Stoptech site!

I think you'll find it was from the Stoptech site!

 

Just was posted by JeffTT on a thread and I didn't know how to link it

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_abs_bigbrakekits.shtml