I am doing the following and want to know 2 things. Firstly am i correct with the equipment i am going to use. And secondly EXACTLY what wires i will need to purchase.

 

I am going to be running, aftermarket 90watt RMS rear 6x4's in the original place, aftermarket original size fronts, not sure what wattage yet, but as high RMS as i can. 2x 12" Subs in the rear.

 

So what amps do i require, i am guessing i need a 4 channel amp for the 4 'original' speakers and a separate 2 channel amp for the subs, is this correct?

 

Also i need to know EXACTLY what wires i am going to need, and which side of the car to thread them down etc......

 

To put it simply i know what i want to do, but i have absolutly no knowledge of ICE installs, i've always just used what was already in a car.

 

Links will also be gratefully recieved.

 

Thanks in advance peeps :D

 

Isaac.

Hi Isaac,

 

I too am not an expert on ICE but past research has given me some insight.

 

Here's what I know that may be useful to you - I am sure the experts will be along shortly:

 

- always run the power cables on the opposite side of the car from the speaker cables (ie, run your power cables along the passenger side of the car and the speaker cables along the driver side - this minimises interference)

- always use a FARAD cap between the battery and the amps

- you're probably best off using one amp for the front, an amp for the rear and a separate amp for the subs - this will give the speakers the best possible performance

- make sure your amps, speakers and headunit provide the same "Ohm" output rating (most speakers/subs are either 2 or 4Ohm)

- make sure your headunit can cope with this many amps - ie, it has the correct number of line-outs

 

I'll see if I can dig up some more info and links tonight when I get home - I'll either PM it to you or e-mail it over.

 

Again, don't take my info for gospel but it's a place to start.

 

All the best,

 

Dan

Hi Isaac,

 

I too am not an expert on ICE but past research has given me some insight.

 

Here's what I know that may be useful to you - I am sure the experts will be along shortly:

 

- always run the power cables on the opposite side of the car from the speaker cables (ie, run your power cables along the passenger side of the car and the speaker cables along the driver side - this minimises interference)

- always use a FARAD cap between the battery and the amps

- you're probably best off using one amp for the front, an amp for the rear and a separate amp for the subs - this will give the speakers the best possible performance

- make sure your amps, speakers and headunit provide the same "Ohm" output rating (most speakers/subs are either 2 or 4Ohm)

- make sure your headunit can cope with this many amps - ie, it has the correct number of line-outs

 

I'll see if I can dig up some more info and links tonight when I get home - I'll either PM it to you or e-mail it over.

 

Again, don't take my info for gospel but it's a place to start.

 

All the best,

 

Dan

 

Dan as always you're a star mate, that made complete sense too, thank goodness.

 

With any luck i'll get lots more advise to build on that, and then i can start to get on with it :D

same as dta says make sure ur power runs down a different place from the speaker cables mine wasnt at first and gave a terrible noise from one set, moved them now its all fine. you can buy amp wiring kits from the likes of maplin that come with the inline fuse that must be fitted next to the battery, mains cables from batt to power cap, ground cable and some rca leads really just need to pick one tht is capable of supplying what you need im not really up on how you work it out as i got a guy to do mine first then when i was doing it was only altering what he had done. mine sounded better when i used a better quality speaker cable than was supplied with them but dont think its a must. i have 2 4 chanel amps running 2 subs and 2 8" components and one 2 chanel amp running my 6x9s in doors

run the power cables down the passenger side as all the access holes are there to the battery. Theres a gromet that can be removed or hole put through on the passenger inner wheel arch just take a couple of screws out of the liner an you will see it. this allows the power cables to be fed through to the top left of passenger footwell from the battery.

 

HTH

The key to a good set up is supplying the amp with enough power to control the speakers, amp wiring kits come in diffrent AWG (gauges/thickness). For 2 x 12" subs the power and earth cable your using needs to be (i would say) 2AWG, this will give the amps plenty of power to control the speakers, as already said, power cable and line out cables down diffrent sides of the car (or centre console) and door speaker wires down the sides(just try to keep em seperate to eliminate whistling sounds through the speakers). for two amps you can use distribution blocks that split the power cable, so you can have 1 cable running through the car(2 AWG) then split the cable in ther boot using a distribution block, and have a 4AWG power cable to each amp. Then you can do the same with the earth cables on the amps, 2 x 4AWG earths from the amps, into a distribution block and 1 2AWG earth cable onto the car. and make sure the speaker cables you use for the doors and 6x4's are oxygen fee and as thick as you can get. sorry for the essay, and crappy explination but if you can make sense of it then it should help. and with the lineouts, you can split that signal too, shouldnt make any diffrence in quality.

2awg is a big cable to be trying to get down the car and i would say unnecesary unless you are after serious power or into stupidly loud car stereo shows

 

the difference in voltage drop between 2awg and 4 awg is fairly minimal

 

most instals will more likely be done in 8awg or 10awg per amplifier and maybe 6awg for 2 amps

 

i chose 10awg cable for both of mine as a nice size cable to work with (one is 2 amps running 12"sub, 2 6x9 and 2 6" and the other is a 6ch amp running 2 8" subs and 2 6x9 and 2 6") i'm slightly deaf, work in the PA industry and like to be able to hear my music clearly and undistorted with the roof down on the motorway

 

speaker cable wise look at either 16awg or 14awg (1.5mm or 2.5mm)

 

note: as awg number gets smaller the cable size gets bigger

 

remember to get multistranded cables as the big power cables are eisier to work with and audio (speakerwire) signals travel better down many thin wires rather than one thick one

 

make sure that if there are any stock in line ampifiers in your car you bypass them, also bypass any stock speaker wires and run new wires from the amp all teh way to the speaker

 

make sure you get a good ground connection to the chassis of the car for teh amplifier

 

make sure you fuse the power feed to the amp as close as possible to the battery, consider extra protection on the cable where it passes through metalwork

 

is a power cap needed? possibly, if your into huge amounts of bass and subbass, i havn't bothered as i like a punchy bass sound without the big booming sub sound (power cap stores energy in case your amp wants more instantaneous power on the bass beats than the car can provide) but it does look shiny :)

 

also make sure if you have any electroluminescant / neon stuff that your stereo cables are well away from the cables from the inverter to the neon (ie, my light up door sills make my stereo whistle really loudly when they are on)

 

also consider where you want to put the amps before deciding on one big or 2 smaller, under passenger seat (unless you have electric seat) is a good place if you want to hide your amps rather than show them off. depending on make youll either get a 2ch or a 4ch under there

Edited September 29, 200817 yr by ianl

WOW :eek: :eek: Cheers fellas for the great advise, please keep it coming as i want to get this right first time if possible, lol.

 

I want as much advise as possible and then i can make all my discisions and get on with it, cos i am sick of my awful sounds at the mo :(

when replacing the speakers in the front doors i would seriously consider components (ie as well as the 6" speaker in the door there is a small tweeter which fits to the top of the door card)

 

if you don't add the extra tweeter then all the top end clarity can get lost in your legs (especially if you have a passenger)

when replacing the speakers in the front doors i would seriously consider components (ie as well as the 6" speaker in the door there is a small tweeter which fits to the top of the door card)

 

if you don't add the extra tweeter then all the top end clarity can get lost in your legs (especially if you have a passenger)

 

Is alot of extra wiring or anything required Ian? I have heard a few times that tweeters are superb! How are they wired exactly??? I can't even begin to understand this stuff at this point.

 

And cheers for the help so far mate, appreciate it :)

got a vibe vp4 digital, 1200w monoblock amp you can buy off me .. as it has been sat under my bed for about 2 years

got a vibe vp4 digital, 1200w monoblock amp you can buy off me .. as it has been sat under my bed for about 2 years

 

What will it power in my set up mate? And gimme some more details if possible, PM if you want :)

Is alot of extra wiring or anything required Ian? I have heard a few times that tweeters are superb! How are they wired exactly??? I can't even begin to understand this stuff at this point.

 

And cheers for the help so far mate, appreciate it :)

 

 

very little extra wiring, you still just run the one speaker wire to each door, but it connects to a small plastic box called a crossover, then you run 2 short speaker wires one to the 6" and the second to the tweeter

 

 

also worth considering is, do you really need two subbass speakers?

 

the science says that unless you can get them within one wavelength of each other (which you cant really with 2x12" in a zed) then you only add 3db to the volume when you double the number of speakers. for the human ear to think it is twice as loud you need an increase of 10db, therefore to make one subbass speaker sound twice as loud you need 8 subbass speakers.

 

i would suggest getting one good subbass speaker in a well designed box (large sized box) is far more effective than two in smaller boxes

 

 

 

the other benefit of only one is you can "bridge" the stereo amplifier to produce a more powewrful mono amplifier (very roughly speaking a bridged amp will produce 4 times the power of a single channel) there fore saving you money and space

 

at the end of the day, what we each like is different to the next person and sometimes what we like defies science. if youve got time then listen to other peopes set ups, decide what you like the sound of, ask them what they would have done different and go with that

Edited September 29, 200817 yr by ianl

Flamin eck fellas, i've just re-read everything that has been said there and i'm not going to lie, i'm a bit confused, however i now understand the basics :)

 

I just want to add, the reason i want the set-up i have said is mainly because i already have the 2 subs and the 2 rear speakers and also the ones in my doors are not far off new however i can find remember what power they are :( But i am going to take a door card off and have a look and if they are good enough, then all that will be left to purchase is the tweeters for the front, 2 amps and all new wiring.

 

I also have a plan as to where the amps will be placed as it has been asked, and the answer is, i would like to make it as easy as possible for my self, lol. The amp for the subs will be going next to the subs themselves in the boot area, however i am undecided as to where to put the amp that will power my 4 speakers, i am not particularly bothered whether it is on show or not, i just need to know the BEST location, if you know what i mean.................the easiest place to run the wires to the amp and then run the wires from the amp to the speakers, under the passenger seat sounds a winner, however what restrictions will i have on the size of it???

 

Also i know the wires have been discussed at length in the above posts, but some clarification would be great if you would indulge me :D

 

To my mind i need a power cable running from the battery with a fuse near the battery itself, and then if i decide to have 1 amp under the seat and 1 in the boot, i would need to split the power lead into 2 and have one going under the seat and one in the boot, have i got that correct????

 

I will also need to earth both amps against a suitable place on the car........is that correct?

 

I take it i will then obviously needs leads coming from my headunit to the amps? I do not understand what these leads will be tho, so really need help with this part.

 

And finally i will need brand new good quality speaker wires running from the amps to the speakers themselves. And part and parcel of that stage it using a crossover box inside the 2 doors to wire up the main speaker AND the tweeter.

 

If that makes sense what i have just said then i am half way there and i just need the clarification from you guys that know about this.

 

As already said thanks for the help so far and thanks in advance for the help you are about to give..........hopefully, lol :D

yep thats about right bud.

the leads from the radio will be rca leads that send the signal too the amps and a remote wire which turns the amp on/off when you turn the head unit on/off

 

as for location theres plenty of room under passenger seat, only takes 2 min to whip it out.

 

I'm in the middle of upgrading my system at the minute, got all the panels out of the boot because have put some sound deadening in which is worth considering? and the back seats and side panels out also the pasenger seat.

I was originally going for 2 amps 1 under seat and 1 in the boot, but I have a jbl gto 755.6 amp which I have decided to go with as this is a 6 channel amp an will suit my needs, basically front and rear speakers and a sub.

means you only have to run 1 set of power leads, Ive ran the power leads down the passenger side, rca's and remote through the centre console, speaker wires down drivers side.

Edited September 30, 200817 yr by djtomo

yep thats about right bud.

the leads from the radio will be rca leads that send the signal too the amps and a remote wire which turns the amp on/off when you turn the head unit on/off

 

as for location theres plenty of room under passenger seat, only takes 2 min to whip it out.

 

I'm in the middle of upgrading my system at the minute, got all the panels out of the boot because have put some sound deadening in which is worth considering? and the back seats and side panels out also the pasenger seat.

I was originally going for 2 amps 1 under seat and 1 in the boot, but I have a jbl gto 755.6 amp which I have decided to go with as this is a 6 channel amp an will suit my needs, basically front and rear speakers and a sub.

means you only have to run 1 set of power leads, Ive ran the power leads down the passenger side, rca's and remote through the centre console, speaker wires down drivers side.

 

Interesting..............

 

So i can just use 1x 6 Channel amp then??? Which will cut down on the wires but still do the same job, yes?

 

Also can you possible tell me the EXACT wires that go from the headunit to the amps, please?

 

Also what do i need on the back of the headunit, as it just so happens my current one has started going dodgy, so i'm probably going to buy a new one anyway which means i need to pick out one with the correct inputs and outputs............:)

 

Thanks again for the help and any furher help will be gratefully appreciated :)

 

I know it sounds as though i'm going over things, but when i get a question that has a straight forward answer i can check it off in my brain as i then fully understand it, if you know what i mean, lol :wack: I'm really only short of a couple of answers now, whether 1 amp would be better, what EXACT wires come from the headunit and also what connections i NEED on the back of a headunit. :)

Can I ask what head unit your going for? Cos in all honesty unless your spending £500+ on and amp SOLEY for the mid/tweeter range you will most likely end up with a worse quality sound than you will from the head unit direct to the speakers.

Most head units these days are MORE than capable of running high power to the speakers without any need for amplification.

 

99% of the so called "Really good" sound systems I've heard have been ruined by people amping up mid/tweeter needlessly and using bad methods and not looking into what kind of "Sound" the amps they are using will provide.

 

If I were you I would get the speakers in going direct to head unit, get the subs and related amp sorted out (Forget using a CAP your not running anywhere near enough power to warrant one), and see how it sounds.

 

If you feel its missing something after this has been tweaked about, think about what it’s missing and go in search of the right components that will add that missing piece/sound. You can’t just go buy any old amp and think it will do. Same goes for the speakers!

 

It’s like buying a car, if you want a fast one that handles well you don’t buy a rover 820! Research, and choose what you need to fulfil your requirements.

Also run new power wiring for the head unit. Most people dont think or bother about it and have a great setup ruined by the head unit not powered well enough.

Can I ask what head unit your going for? Cos in all honesty unless your spending £500+ on and amp SOLEY for the mid/tweeter range you will most likely end up with a worse quality sound than you will from the head unit direct to the speakers.

Most head units these days are MORE than capable of running high power to the speakers without any need for amplification.

 

99% of the so called "Really good" sound systems I've heard have been ruined by people amping up mid/tweeter needlessly and using bad methods and not looking into what kind of "Sound" the amps they are using will provide.

 

If I were you I would get the speakers in going direct to head unit, get the subs and related amp sorted out (Forget using a CAP your not running anywhere near enough power to warrant one), and see how it sounds.

 

If you feel its missing something after this has been tweaked about, think about what it’s missing and go in search of the right components that will add that missing piece/sound. You can’t just go buy any old amp and think it will do. Same goes for the speakers!

 

It’s like buying a car, if you want a fast one that handles well you don’t buy a rover 820! Research, and choose what you need to fulfil your requirements.

 

Also run new power wiring for the head unit. Most people dont think or bother about it and have a great setup ruined by the head unit not powered well enough.

 

Thanks for the advice Nick (i think its Nick, apologies if not, lol) i have understood what you have said mate, and i have taken it on board, i will certainly take my time thinking about everything especially what equipment etc.....

 

Also it sounds like a good idea to start with, to go striaght from the headunit to the speakers, the only reason i did'nt really want to 'try' that was because i need to take out all the trim in the boot to replace the speakers and therefore i wanted to replace the wiring etc... at the same time to save me alot of hassle in the long run........

 

I hope that makes sense, lol :)

the cables from the head unit to the amp are just like you use on home stereos to connect cd player to amplifier, a pair of phono to phono cables (also known as RCA) the only difference is there is an extra wire stuck to them to switch on the amplifier when you switch on the headunit.

 

if you plan to use amps as you have been discussing then you need to make sure the headunit has "line out" sockets for front and rear (ie 4 phono sockets hanging out the back of the headunit. i would also be tempted to get a headunit whith seperate tone controls (bass and treble) or EQ (fancy tone control) for front and rear speakers

 

i also kind of agree with takemetothepub that for a lot of people a modern head unit can be quite capable of powering front speakers (its what i've done in one of my cars) so i would be tempted to get a amp to run rear and sub

you can always add a front amp latter if you want

 

 

on the subject of amps, a subbass needs lots more power than the rest of the speakers (bigger driver to move etc) so i wouldnt advise a 6ch amp where all 6 channels are the same power, as i mentioned before it is quite usual to bridge 2 amp channels into a sub so i would use a 6 ch amp to run 2 front, 2 rear and ONE sub. or a 4ch amp to run 2 rear and ONE sub

 

so if you want to run 2 subs you may need to buy a big 2ch sub amp and smaller amps for the rears and or fronts.

 

remember power is not a measure of how good something is or necesarily how loud it is. use your ears

Thanks for the advice Nick (i think its Nick, apologies if not, lol)

 

Yup I'm Nick ;)

the cables from the head unit to the amp are just like you use on home stereos to connect cd player to amplifier, a pair of phono to phono cables (also known as RCA) the only difference is there is an extra wire stuck to them to switch on the amplifier when you switch on the headunit.

 

if you plan to use amps as you have been discussing then you need to make sure the headunit has "line out" sockets for front and rear (ie 4 phono sockets hanging out the back of the headunit. i would also be tempted to get a headunit whith seperate tone controls (bass and treble) or EQ (fancy tone control) for front and rear speakers

 

i also kind of agree with takemetothepub that for a lot of people a modern head unit can be quite capable of powering front speakers (its what i've done in one of my cars) so i would be tempted to get a amp to run rear and sub

you can always add a front amp latter if you want

 

 

on the subject of amps, a subbass needs lots more power than the rest of the speakers (bigger driver to move etc) so i wouldnt advise a 6ch amp where all 6 channels are the same power, as i mentioned before it is quite usual to bridge 2 amp channels into a sub so i would use a 6 ch amp to run 2 front, 2 rear and ONE sub. or a 4ch amp to run 2 rear and ONE sub

 

so if you want to run 2 subs you may need to buy a big 2ch sub amp and smaller amps for the rears and or fronts.

 

remember power is not a measure of how good something is or necesarily how loud it is. use your ears

 

The amp I mentioned has a dedicated sub channel (jbl gto 755.6) which is perfect for my needs:)

The amp I mentioned has a dedicated sub channel (jbl gto 755.6) which is perfect for my needs:)

 

ah, i've got an older 6ch jbl gto which hasn't

Right i think i've got my head round just about everything now :)

 

So a big thanks to all of you :D :duffer:

 

I suppose my last question is, can i get a good headunit with all the inputs and outputs for decent money, as i ain't exactly minted at the mo :( Would £150 get me what i need or am i under budgeting???

 

Thanks again.

 

Oh and also do any of you know a good online source for the stuff i require, thanks.

 

I suppose my last question is, can i get a good headunit with all the inputs and outputs for decent money, as i ain't exactly minted at the mo :( Would £150 get me what i need or am i under budgeting???

 

Thanks again.

 

Oh and also do any of you know a good online source for the stuff i require, thanks.

 

New Kenwoods will all have front and rear RCA outs, and IMHO one of the nices all round sounds for the money. http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/kenwood-kdcbt8141u-p-7049.html?cadid=3ti7kd755d383smuq7caifmf36

 

 

http://www.caraudiodirect.com

New Kenwoods will all have front and rear RCA outs, and IMHO one of the nices all round sounds for the money. http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/kenwood-kdcbt8141u-p-7049.html?cadid=3ti7kd755d383smuq7caifmf36

 

 

http://www.caraudiodirect.com

 

Thanks once again Nick, appreciate it mate :D :duffer: