Please can anyone decribe the process, and would it be adventagous to the Z32 TT engine?

Blueprinting basically checks the engine specs and ensures they are in tollerance to what is required, say economy or performance.

 

Would it be advantageous, err

 

No brainer this one. Yes

I thought blueprinting was far more than just checking tolerances, hence my question. Surely you would check the tolerances with a standard rebuild.

Blueprintig is a proces(sp) whereby the whole engine is stripped and ALL the tolerances are checked and put to the absolute perfect state as first designed in the engine blueprint. As tooling wears out the tolerances become slacker, a good example is the honda KA20 engine found in the type R the units produced at the start of the re-tool made upto 230hp on the engine dyno whereas the ones just before often only made 195hp. most engines are rarely spot on so a blueprint would give you better economy and performance.

I thought blueprinting was far more than just checking tolerances, hence my question. Surely you would check the tolerances with a standard rebuild.

 

With a rebuild you check the tolerances of the major components like the pistons rings valves crank big ends smallends, but you only check them to be within excepted tollerances. I always thought Blue printing was about building the engine to optimum tollerances and balancing all moving components to milli grams. So all pistons and rods were exactly the same weight and the cams opened the valves to exactly the same position and duration. That all shafts and rods were balance to a 0 harmonic value.

 

A blue print engine from what i've been told is usually 15% up on efficiencey.

 

So it will be more frudal and loose less BHP through machanical contact and harmonic inertia.

 

P.S. As Gezzmarrelda above says. That is where the term comes from.

ok I am with you so far.... but would that mean you can't blueprint an engine if you used uprated pistons/conrods etc because they would be outside the scope of the original blueprint?

 

Can you only blueprint a standard engine?

ok I am with you so far.... but would that mean you can't blueprint an engine if you used uprated pistons/conrods etc because they would be outside the scope of the original blueprint?

 

Can you only blueprint a standard engine?

 

You can still have an engine blue printed with after market parts because those parts were designed on a blue print to specific tolerances.

So am i right in thinking that, in order to make the perfect blueprinted engine, you are relying on the parts you change, so for example, the big end bearing shells, to be perfectly made.

 

SO theoretically you could say by one set of shells that have been made just after retooling, and other at the end of the tools life and its just pot luck which ones you up with off your supplier???

So am i right in thinking that, in order to make the perfect blueprinted engine, you are relying on the parts you change, so for example, the big end bearing shells, to be perfectly made.

 

SO theoretically you could say by one set of shells that have been made just after retooling, and other at the end of the tools life and its just pot luck which ones you up with off your supplier???

 

 

No. A decet engine builder would be able to take into acount all teh tollerence and build the engine for optimum performance. Although ballancing is the wrong word here and refers to something completely different its easier to say ballancing all teh tollerences so they fall within the optimum tollerence of each part, but basicaly a blueprinted engine is back to the original blueprint.

 

a ballanced and blueprinted engine is effectivly the best you can get.

It is impossible to make an item to an exact measurment so the drawing (blueprint) will have certain tolerances which the item should be made to ie. flatness squarness + or - a certain amount etc. I pressume from the abov comments that all the same items in the engine, ie pistons would then be made to the same size within those tolerances.

 

As for off the shelf items you could of course get one from the start of a run and one from the end, they will be within tolerance but of course could be from one end of the tolerance to the other.

 

Hope that made sence.

 

Darrell

It is impossible to make an item to an exact measurment so the drawing (blueprint) will have certain tolerances which the item should be made to ie. flatness squarness + or - a certain amount etc. I pressume from the abov comments that all the same items in the engine, ie pistons would then be made to the same size within those tolerances.

 

As for off the shelf items you could of course get one from the start of a run and one from the end, they will be within tolerance but of course could be from one end of the tolerance to the other.

 

Hope that made sence.

 

Darrell

 

You can machine items to within microns of the optimum tolerance. Yes the mere fact we call it tollerance means exactly that there is an acceptable microscopic varience that will not greatly effect the engines operation.

You can machine items to within microns of the optimum tolerance. Yes the mere fact we call it tollerance means exactly that there is an acceptable microscopic varience that will not greatly effect the engines operation.

 

Yes you can if cost is not a problem.

 

You then get into the problem of measuring the item as well. Every time you measure something to that accuracy you may well affect the instrument youare using and the item you are measuring. It is all relative.

 

Darrell

Yes you can if cost is not a problem.

 

You then get into the problem of measuring the item as well. Every time you measure something to that accuracy you may well affect the instrument youare using and the item you are measuring. It is all relative.

 

Darrell

 

Yep but for the big boy in racing every micron of extra power reliability etc is woth all of that. Also there are good enough engineers who'll still build your engine to finer tollerances than the factory engine at affordable prices.

I love this question, For starters you cannot Blueprint a Japanese engine.

Why because Japanese manufactures do not release the original CAD "drawings" of there engines, without the original drawing you cannot reproduce the engine as drawn. Which is what Blueprinting is.

Secondly a tolerance is only the allowable variation on a Dimension.

Between design and manufacturer the engine design will go through the Tool shop, where Dimensions can be change, if the engine design is not viable for mass production, e.g. part of the design cannot be cast efficiently, a redesigned, will take place at the tool shop, this normally involves flattening any sharp or pointed surfaces. Here, surface finishes will also be changed, trust me as changes from machine or polish finish to a cast one, regular take place.

Its the tool shops job to turn a design into a financially and economical product.

 

The best you will be able to to do is stage the engine, i.e Port and polish, enlarge the inlet and exhaust valves, skim the head to increase the compression ( not necessary for turbo cars) and have the bottom end lightened and balanced.

 

If you ever get a company offering to "Blueprint" an engine ask to see the drawings the going to be working too.

I love this question, For starters you cannot Blueprint a Japanese engine.

Why because Japanese manufactures do not release the original CAD "drawings" of there engines, without the original drawing you cannot reproduce the engine as drawn. Which is what Blueprinting is.

Secondly a tolerance is only the allowable variation on a Dimension.

Between design and manufacturer the engine design will go through the Tool shop, where Dimensions can be change, if the engine design is not viable for mass production, e.g. part of the design cannot be cast efficiently, a redesigned, will take place at the tool shop, this normally involves flattening any sharp or pointed surfaces. Here, surface finishes will also be changed, trust me as changes from machine or polish finish to a cast one, regular take place.

Its the tool shops job to turn a design into a financially and economical product.

 

The best you will be able to to do is stage the engine, i.e Port and polish, enlarge the inlet and exhaust valves, skim the head to increase the compression ( not necessary for turbo cars) and have the bottom end lightened and balanced.

 

If you ever get a company offering to "Blueprint" an engine ask to see the drawings the going to be working too.

 

you obviously did not read this thread very well then. Because it has been said what blue printing actually is and I've said what a lot of people call blue printing and that you can get get an engine re-engineered to be more efficiant and closer to the Manufactures optimum tollerances. Which they do release in order that engine repairs can be carry out.

 

I agree with regard to turbo charge cars showing less advantages, but not all 300zx are Turbo charged.

 

Your open statement isn't correct either because Honda release blueprints of their engines to the English tunning firm Mugan who do most of Hondas R&D work. You can also buy a Mugan Blueprint version of many Honda lumps.

you obviously did not read this thread very well then. Because it has been said what blue printing actually is and I've said what a lot of people call blue printing and that you can get get an engine re-engineered to be more efficiant and closer to the Manufactures optimum tollerances. Which they do release in order that engine repairs can be carry out.

 

QUOTE]

 

Actually Mark, I did read the previous posts, But I do :-

A. Know exactly what a Blueprint is. Its the back copy or a Draftsman's design drawing, Its so called because it's blue and works in a similar way to carbon paper .

 

B. Know the difference between a tolerance and a dimension, most engineers do.

 

C. I did my apprenticeship in an automotive engineering shop, Where for many a year, built blueprinted Ford Pinto's, Essex's and various other manufacturers engines for customers, using the original drawings.

 

And the information manufacturer's release are ware tolerances not original manufacturing dimensions with tolerances.

Because yourself and others, misuse the words Blueprinting and tolerance does not make your explanation correct.

Your explanation of re-engineering an engine to produce a more efficient thus more powerful engine is actually closer the correct definition for proper engine staging.

 

I don't wish to get into an argument with you, but please don't tell me how to do my trade.

 

As far as Mugen go, the have very strong links with Honda, in fact the do the Motorsport tuning for Honda in europe.

 

Rather than getting into a slagging match feel free to P.M. if you wish more information on Blueprinting and building a staged engine, not just adding on parts like chips, manifolds etc.

you obviously did not read this thread very well then. Because it has been said what blue printing actually is and I've said what a lot of people call blue printing and that you can get get an engine re-engineered to be more efficiant and closer to the Manufactures optimum tollerances. Which they do release in order that engine repairs can be carry out.

 

QUOTE]

 

Actually Mark, I did read the previous posts, But I do :-

A. Know exactly what a Blueprint is. Its the back copy or a Draftsman's design drawing, Its so called because it's blue and works in a similar way to carbon paper .

 

B. Know the difference between a tolerance and a dimension, most engineers do.

 

C. I did my apprenticeship in an automotive engineering shop, Where for many a year, built blueprinted Ford Pinto's, Essex's and various other manufacturers engines for customers, using the original drawings.

 

And the information manufacturer's release are ware tolerances not original manufacturing dimensions with tolerances.

Because yourself and others, misuse the words Blueprinting and tolerance does not make your explanation correct.

Your explanation of re-engineering an engine to produce a more efficient thus more powerful engine is actually closer the correct definition for proper engine staging.

 

I don't wish to get into an argument with you, but please don't tell me how to do my trade.

 

As far as Mugen go, the have very strong links with Honda, in fact the do the Motorsport tuning for Honda in europe.

 

Rather than getting into a slagging match feel free to P.M. if you wish more information on Blueprinting and building a staged engine, not just adding on parts like chips, manifolds etc.

 

Sorry to say it but you really have not read this thread properly and everything that you have just said is already stated there in the thread. Start with the first post from Gezzmarrelda and subsequent replies. Also it is a long time since Blue prints have been used. however you will also find that the term Blue Print has over the years through useage accrued a legal definition as the "Master Copy" and it is more in these terms that tuners talk. I am old enough to remember using Blue prints as a technical illustrator to translate into technical illustrations in the pre CAD and MAC days.

 

Actually it would appear that plenty of people on this thread know the difference between a tolerance and a dimension, and many more people other than engineers do.

 

I don't wish to get into an argument with you, ..

Class opening gambit of an argument or vailed threat of shut it or else

but please don't tell me how to do my trade..

Where has anyone on this thread done so?

 

Then you freely admit that your statement of No Japanese Blueprints being releast to the UK was a silly remark but try to justify it be saying

 

As far as Mugen go, the have very strong links with Honda, in fact the do the Motorsport tuning for Honda in europe.

 

All I will say is it would be prudent and intelegent to not make groundless assumptions before offering what I will loosely call advice. Thanks Dad

 

Please read and comprehend what people are saying before posting condersending snide remarks. This is a cub where people of all different ages, levels of inteligence, viewpoints and opinions meet and chuck stuff about. People dicuss stuff give avdice and hypothersize. People even take the p1ss but in an toung in cheek way. Any one can slagg people off it is hardly friendly or in the nature of what the club is about.

Fight fight fight! :rofl:

Fight fight fight! :rofl:

dont egg them on there'll be a war :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Rrrrrrrrroundddd ooonnnneeeeee....... :D

Rrrrrrrrroundddd ooonnnneeeeee....... :D

you forgot DING DING :rofl:

Thought I'd leave that one to you :D

cheers mate you've dragged me into it now :rofl:

I thought you were the one walking round with the board? :D

i can if you want i aint wearin a bikini for anyone :rofl:

we need "eye of the tiger" playing in the back ground of this thread!!!