I am going to get my tracking done this afternoon after installing the new adjustable tension rods and fiddling about with the height of the coilovers. There is a garage near me that i have used before with the Hunter Laser 4 wheel tracking equipment. The trouble is that when I have been to have my tracking done before they always seem to say the little caveat of, “we can only return the settings to standard”.

 

I am not sure what exactly this means when the suspension is not the same as standard (bigger alloys, lowered suspension, adjustable camber and adjustable tension rods for the castor) as will they put the settings as they would be if it rolled out the factory with the standard stuff and thus mean the wheels will actually be well out with the aftermarket stuff? Or do they just return the actual deflections of the actual wheels back to standard (ie dead straight, 0° camber, toe, castor) and wont be able to add neg camber if I asked for it? Obviously I want the second option or getting the tracking done will be completely pointless so is going to get is done a pointless exercise?

 

The other question is with this limitation of “only returning to standard” affect the items that they will actually adjust? I guess the computer system will show them where the adjustment bolts are located but if I have adjustable camber arms and adjustable tension rods it would be far more effective to adjust them wouldn’t it?

I am going to get my tracking done this afternoon after installing the new adjustable tension rods and fiddling about with the height of the coilovers. There is a garage near me that i have used before with the Hunter Laser 4 wheel tracking equipment. The trouble is that when I have been to have my tracking done before they always seem to say the little caveat of, “we can only return the settings to standard”.

 

I am not sure what exactly this means when the suspension is not the same as standard (bigger alloys, lowered suspension, adjustable camber and adjustable tension rods for the castor) as will they put the settings as they would be if it rolled out the factory with the standard stuff and thus mean the wheels will actually be well out with the aftermarket stuff? Or do they just return the actual deflections of the actual wheels back to standard (ie dead straight, 0° camber, toe, castor) and wont be able to add neg camber if I asked for it? Obviously I want the second option or getting the tracking done will be completely pointless so is going to get is done a pointless exercise?

 

The other question is with this limitation of “only returning to standard” affect the items that they will actually adjust? I guess the computer system will show them where the adjustment bolts are located but if I have adjustable camber arms and adjustable tension rods it would be far more effective to adjust them wouldn’t it?

 

 

Hi Tom,

 

I really wouldn't bother going to that garage if I were you. Try and find a Motorsport outfit which is used to setting up cars for track use. You may be able to find one online or in the phonebook under "race alignment" etc.

 

I have had the same problem over here - got a customer car with everything adjustable under the sun, had to take it to a specialist outfit to get the job done properly. Car handles like a dream now.

 

Also, whilst you're at it get them to do a corner weight test and get the adjustments done. Did this to mine a fair few months ago and it made a heck of a difference to the handling just by adding various weights to the corners to bring the car back to it's original weight distribution.

 

Good luck mate!

 

Dan

thanks danny. I ended up going to a different local place to get it done. Same old story with this being london. Had all the equipment with the Hunter Laser system but a young polish guy running it who didnt grasp much english and the head honcho a older cockney guy who did want cars blocking up his ramps and wasnt prepared to take time doing anything other than "get it within the parameters"......god i hate going to london garages!

 

I have got the print out but cant scan it until work on monday.

 

The rear toe looks ok and it is now running -1.19degrees and -1.38degrees camber at the rear.

at the front -1.30degrees and -1.42 degrees camber and toe is fine. They changed the castor with the adj tension rods when i showed them but they could only get it to +5.41degrees and +5.20degrees castor. this was with the adj rods extended as far as they could but they didnt seem wound out that far. maybe 2 inchs. Is this expected on our cars?

 

Will these settings cause me any problems? i am quite worried about inner tread scrub as that happened before on the old suspension settings, old wheels, non-adj tension rods.

thanks danny. I ended up going to a different local place to get it done. Same old story with this being london. Had all the equipment with the Hunter Laser system but a young polish guy running it who didnt grasp much english and the head honcho a older cockney guy who did want cars blocking up his ramps and wasnt prepared to take time doing anything other than "get it within the parameters"......god i hate going to london garages!

 

I have got the print out but cant scan it until work on monday.

 

The rear toe looks ok and it is now running -1.19degrees and -1.38degrees camber at the rear.

at the front -1.30degrees and -1.42 degrees camber and toe is fine. They changed the castor with the adj tension rods when i showed them but they could only get it to +5.41degrees and +5.20degrees castor. this was with the adj rods extended as far as they could but they didnt seem wound out that far. maybe 2 inchs. Is this expected on our cars?

 

Will these settings cause me any problems? i am quite worried about inner tread scrub as that happened before on the old suspension settings, old wheels, non-adj tension rods.

 

I'm afraid suspension setups is one of the things I'm working on getting to grips with (now that I sell the parts). So, for the sake of not giving you wrong information I will defer comment on the above values to someone who knows what they are talking about. Sorry Tom - just don't want to get it wrong where it concerns something as important as the suspension.

 

Can anyone else help Tom out please?

 

Regards,

 

Dan

Hi mate.

 

I took mine to this guy.

 

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/

 

Set it all up and it was running great. Have since had coilovers fitted so need to take it back. He really seems to know his stuff and spent an age trying to get mine right.

 

Hope you get it sorted the way you want.

 

Darrell

Hi mate.

 

I took mine to this guy.

 

http://www.wheels-inmotion.co.uk/

 

Set it all up and it was running great. Have since had coilovers fitted so need to take it back. He really seems to know his stuff and spent an age trying to get mine right.

 

Hope you get it sorted the way you want.

 

Darrell

 

I can highly recommend Wheels In Motion - they are very highly thought of amongst my Honda NSX, S2000 and Mazda MX5/RX8 customers. Haven't used them myself yet but will be taking the Mrs' MX5 over later next month for a complete suspension workout!

 

Regards,

 

Dan

I took mine to an ATS place, (I know them otherwise I would have been more carefull) thay have a fully computerised set up that allows them to input wheel size, mine are 19", and then when the various parts are correctly set the computer flashes green.

 

So most of the human error is removed.

if you were down this way i would have highly recommended chrischurch tyres they set mine up perfectly.!! quick too.

yeah hellraiser i asked you about christchurch tyres in a pm. i will keep an eye on how the wear goes and the handling then maybe take it up to hemel or xchurch.

 

danny, are you or smithy aware of any cases where the powertrix adjustable rods werent able to be adjusted long enough to give zero castor?

The cars Geometry calibration is dependant on the intended use.

 

Appreciate there is a vast difference between domestic-track-drift-trials calibrations.

 

Next question is the driver.....What is he expecting from the car?

 

Are we looking for tyre preservation or pure domestic handling to compliment the modifications.

 

If we were to calibrate a modified car for domestic fast-road then it's wise to corner weight the vehicle and determine the dynamic index, then ascertain the suspensions natural frequency.... For most drivers 1.8Hz ps or 1.8 driver inputs per second to drive the car comfortably is desired.

 

As for the actual calibration positions.......There isn't any?

 

The modified domestic car will need a assumed calibration fingerprint that will allow the driver to feel the dynamic chassis... The feedback from the driver determines the final calibration positions assuming tyre preservation is not the only goal.

 

Point to remember, Geometry is a modifier used to interact with the suspension maintaining the tyres footprint.

 

A vehicle like the WRX has next to no Geometry to maintain handling even in the most extreme situations...whereas a car like the Omega has a huge Geometric requirement.

 

I hope this helps

Tony

ge·om·e·try /dʒiˈɒmɪtri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jee-om-i-tree] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural ‑tries. 1. the branch of mathematics that deals with the deduction of the properties, measurement, and relationships of points, lines, angles, and figures in space from their defining conditions by means of certain assumed properties of space.

 

So, my question, how can a car suspension have NO GEOMETRY????? Not sure if you are talking sense or not. :-)

The cars Geometry calibration is dependant on the intended use.

 

Appreciate there is a vast difference between domestic-track-drift-trials calibrations.

 

Next question is the driver.....What is he expecting from the car?

 

Are we looking for tyre preservation or pure domestic handling to compliment the modifications.

 

If we were to calibrate a modified car for domestic fast-road then it's wise to corner weight the vehicle and determine the dynamic index, then ascertain the suspensions natural frequency.... For most drivers 1.8Hz ps or 1.8 driver inputs per second to drive the car comfortably is desired.

 

As for the actual calibration positions.......There isn't any?

 

The modified domestic car will need a assumed calibration fingerprint that will allow the driver to feel the dynamic chassis... The feedback from the driver determines the final calibration positions assuming tyre preservation is not the only goal.

 

Point to remember, Geometry is a modifier used to interact with the suspension maintaining the tyres footprint.

 

A vehicle like the WRX has next to no Geometry to maintain handling even in the most extreme situations...whereas a car like the Omega has a huge Geometric requirement.

 

I hope this helps

Tony

 

 

Wow you guys really seem to know your stuff! I guess as a greedy person i would want good road handling without excessive tyre wear. I will see how the current setting feel and how the tyres wear.

what i am most concerned about is extreme inner edge scrub which i have experienced on older tyres before the new settings. I have now uploaded the settings below. Will these settings cause me these problems and is the +5degree toe at the front an issue?

Quote> Giant Slayer

 

The front camber positions will definitely wear the inners..... Did they give you any reason why the camber was left so negative?

 

Also the castor is low... Was you asked to fill the fuel tank prior to the calibration.

ooh, got the same aligner iv got :)

 

set my front camber at -1 deg dead, seems to be a good amount & doesnt scrub at all

 

caster is waaaaay out, should be around 10 deg mark! - looks like they have not set up your tension rods properly - did you fit them or did they??

no for the fuel tank. Like i said in the first post they were a typical london garage in that they want you in and out as quick as possible. That is why they only adjusted the front camber "within the parameters" rather than getting it to dead zero like i wanted.

 

For the castor i installed the tension rods myself and tried to set them to the length of the rods that were already on there. For the castor they extended the tension rods as long as possible to get the above readings (i.e. pushing the wheels towards the rear) I think that was reducing the castor towards zero but +5 is as low as they could get. can someone tell me weather the longer the tension rod the higher the castor above 0 or is it the other way round? Is +10degrees the ideal for the castor?

10 deg is about 1 deg or so more than stock (for my car) & gives a nice feel when turning in, IIRC spec is 9 deg to 10 deg 30 min

All the measured angles are fuel dependant on the 300ZX. So unless you had 100% (as required) on the day the measurements are worthless.

But if thats the case you had better always have the same amount of fuel in the car, ie fill up every 20 miles or so, never put on weight yourself etc etc.

 

Otherwise your settings will be, as you put it, worthless. ???????

Interesting all this and a bit esoteric!!

Castor just affects response and feel, hardly noticable unless you do direct comparisons, car for car etc. and as you say changes on loading braking etc.

Slight toe out gives better better stability in a straight line and and the expense of turn in response.

Neg camber gives better tyre contact on cornering and general handling response at the possible expense of wear on inners edge. some tyres compensate for this by having a harder edge compound such as Falkens.

So you pays your money and takes your choice.

I like NEG camber; running 2.5 degrees front and rear on Falkens without too much scrub on inners. also lowered so really corners well, I think anyway.