i was just reading about another zed engine that has gone bang and it got me thinking about engine conversions.....

 

Why hasnt any put an RB26 motor into a zed yet??? its nissans most bullet proof, and probably most tuneable engine, so surely its got to be favourate for a transplant into a zed.

 

I know that its set up for a 4WD transmission, but there are a fair few GTR's that have been RWD converted?

 

If anyone knows of anyone who has done/tried it, or of any reason why it cant be done feel free to enlighten me

 

cheers in advance

 

Nick

Yeh fair points, my favourite gripe is CRD or Calder Racing Developments and their so called "1200bhp" Supra that was "built by CRD" ..... ummmm no

 

Bought from japan, fitted with a motec and shoddy graphics then driven by a little badly irishman who almost lost his finger at Knockhill once by sticking it into a turbo that had just been running...... LOL

 

Yup they defo "built" that one!!

 

Id be willing to bet that if most of the cars that come over here tuned to the moon were to actually break theres noone who could fix them in this country!

 

Sorry if I missed your point I do see what your saying there and totaly agree. The uk needs better tuners, we are so so behind!

 

Look at the ozzies running rotarys in everything with wheels producing silly BHP and 1/4 mile times!! its just madness!!

So at least even though I think fitting the RB26 was pretty pointless at least it was a bit different.

 

in that whole schpiel the only thing i could find that was truely relevant to the thread was that! :mac1:

 

No offence or anything, or maybe im just tired after finishing another truely ridiculous shift, but your point of all that was?????????? :nelson:

 

At no point was i "writing off the VG30", it was simpely a case of "how come no one has tried it yet?" People have tuned up VG30's and swapped them for V8's but i couldnt understand why the RB26 had been tried. Admittedly i was only going on the apparent "rep" of the RB, which i have obviously been corrected on, but like you said, it would be something different at least

Pants point i thought really!! :S

 

The blocks themselves are renowned for being porous and sometimes overnight when parked you will wake up to a puddle of coolant beneath your car!!!

 

Oh then theres the rebuild costs............. get that remortgage sorted out now in advance guys........

 

VG30 in my opinion is a far better built engine, if people on here spent half as much ion the engine as they do on stick on bits of plastic there would be some seriously fast and reliable zeds at all these big drag and drift events all over the uk.

 

 

i can tell by this your zed hasnt gone bang yet, because i can tell you a VG30 is far from cheap to rebuild. I would say it was so far away from cheap it was as far as a far thing from farthington in farshire in a galaxy far far away (and breathe).

 

I will be the first to admit that i know sweet FA about RB lumps, but i deffinatly know VG's and how much of a royal pain in the backside they are to work on. The majority of peeps on here know how many times i had the engine out of my zed, so i know im talking from experience!

 

Like ive said previously, i love the VG and will praise it to the hills, BUT the RB recieved alot more development from nissan, nevermind the tuners, than the VG ever did. The RB is by no means a spring chicken and yet nissan used it until the very last of the R34's.

 

If the VG30, and specifically the VG30 and none of the other varients, was such a good lump, why was it not used for longer in other nissan models??

Here's an RB26 in a Z!......

 

 

Wrong type of Z though!:D....

 

i can tell by this your zed hasnt gone bang yet, because i can tell you a VG30 is far from cheap to rebuild. I would say it was so far away from cheap it was as far as a far thing from farthington in farshire in a galaxy far far away (and breathe).

 

I will be the first to admit that i know sweet FA about RB lumps, but i deffinatly know VG's and how much of a royal pain in the backside they are to work on. The majority of peeps on here know how many times i had the engine out of my zed, so i know im talking from experience!

 

Like ive said previously, i love the VG and will praise it to the hills, BUT the RB recieved alot more development from nissan, nevermind the tuners, than the VG ever did. The RB is by no means a spring chicken and yet nissan used it until the very last of the R34's.

 

If the VG30, and specifically the VG30 and none of the other varients, was such a good lump, why was it not used for longer in other nissan models??

 

No and i dont intend it to go bang either! but if it does ill whip it out and rebuild it myself, the parts are not any dearer than the parts for a CA engine out the s13 I had as ive priced them! the only difference is theres 2 more cylinders :)

 

However Petrolhead on here removed his one as it broke and simply replaced it with another one, if you know where to look you can pick up a VG engine for not alot of money in comparison to an RB !!

Your making my points for me really so i think we 'violently agree':-

 

Rich kid buys the Jun car after they are done with it and runs it. fair play buy it and ride it but deserves mag articles? Top gear? nah!

 

My whole point (badly made perhaps), was we are light years behind in terms of the freshness of our 'tuning' stories. So now someone has bought it again and re-furbed it is it better? running better times? have we added anything to the mix, donen anything new or innovative? When is the last time you picked up a mage and went wow that is genuinely new and breakthrough for this or that model. To my mind for the Z that would be that shift-at-will thing.

 

"fastest in europe......."

So what! says I.

Lets see a league table of times set by the same cars worldwide by year since the model launch. I bet we make for sorry reading and are at least 5yrs or more off the pace."

 

My challenge is can any UK tuner claim to be 'world class' and have a rep that they have forged from their own work and development??

:ets see when the new GTR hits the UK who will be the ones pushing the envelope? How many Uk tuners are doing the 350Z even though its now been around for an age? --- None, they are waiting to copy what has already been done.

 

My worry is that because of our lack of 'real tuners' we in the UK seem to be unecessarily re-learning what other people have already been, done and got the T-shirt for years ago. I cannot see how buying an ex-tuners car and re-furbing it makes it magazine article worthy. Why not just re-run the orginal jap mag coverage? Honestly I bet the JUN guys just think WTF when they thing what has happened to their 'retired' project.

 

Anyway back on topic (sorry i took us off) Agree 100% bout the RB / VG engine but believe that all of the above causes the wrong headed decision to undertake such a project.

 

Have we actually lost many of the valuable lessons learned from the past or the chance to truly innovate? I mean the homage that is given to the RB engine is largely built on its recent mythology and before that the VG mill was seen as a brilliantly more capable engine. On launch the RB was seen in the industry as a step backwards due to more cost conscious times.

 

Agree that no-one seems to spending serious wonga on a VG based tune because I bet there is no one in the UK who could take it on exactly because my assertion is that most UK tuners are 'painting-by-numbers' artists copying earlier great works.

 

"pack-up-and-go-home" said an earlier quote. I am not saying that each punters 300zx upgrade journey is not a worthwhile journey but that upgrading a 300 should by now be pretty much a 'menu based' project as it has all pretty much been done before and you just pick your spec and build your car to your likes. Now to at least bring us somewhat up to date where can I get a carbon rear diffuser to fit the stock back-end ????

 

Chris C

 

Your all asking the questions and overlooking the obvious answers. Which everyone keeps saying and yet carn't seem to see.

 

The car was state of the art when design 20 tears ago and went into production 18 years ago with the VG30DETT which is a revised version of the previous VG30DET.

 

The VG30DET is even older and used in the Z31 So in 1987 when the Z32 hit the drawing board Nissan where already tuning an old engine.

 

Someone here also said that Nissan won Le Mans with the VG engine. Well no they didn't. Steve Hillen (founder of Stillen Motorsport) won the GT catergory with heavily reworked VG. Nissan actually won Le Mans with the VH39 which is a V8 and a second rework of the earlier VH35 & the Basis for the VH45.

 

The top tuners in the world are in actual fact based in the UK and the contract tunner that did all the work on the so called Japanese world braker Jun 300zx was in fact Ford owned UK based Tuner Coswerth. Who make all the Jun internals and did all the turbo flow specs etc. The rest of the Jap tuning world follow the Jun(Coswerth) lead and it is infact the Japanese and the Yanks that haven't come up with anything new. They apply the same formula to all the cars they tune.

 

The Germans invented superchargers in the 1920's and Bentley inveted Turbo charging a few years later. Thats all the Yanks do bang bigger Turbos or Superchargers on a even bigger V8 or V10. The Bentley brothers and Merc were the people that invented balance cranks, slipper pistons etc. I remember seeing a 1930's Whites Healy Tourer. It was a 4.ltr V6 with twin overhead cams, bucket and shims over dual tension valve springs. It pulled 98bhp and could do 120mph. The japs know nothing about tuning their just good at taking other people ideas and making the kit a bit better.

 

The reason that all the Indy car engines and most of the F1 engines and bodys are made in England is because the UK has the best tuners in the world. Also most people that want to have high powered cars go and buy just that and then tune them. I have a friend who make a living by tuning and preparing Porshes for racing. 900bhp isn't Navarna for these guys it being competertive.

 

So why don't you see them at dragg strips blowing the Skylines into the weeds. Well most racing drivers or people that like to race see hurling a car down a stait as pretty pointless and not much of a test of there skill, inteligence relyability and also a test of the most important part of any tuning exercise the handling.

 

I also think that its a different mind set. If drag racing realy is your ultimate test of a performance car get a jet engine and fasten it on the roof. It'll pee all over ya skylines etc. Or buy a Katrum and bang a couple of Hyabuza engines in. That would do the same and out handle them etc

 

The Zed is a stylish clasic sports car with power and presance that can be made quick. Its a fun to drive club car and very macho in the samevein as the AC Cobra. If it ever was a super car it isn't now.

 

The reason most don't work properly is because people are trying to make it what it isn't and doing a lot of pointless "tuning" as bragging rights rather than looking at it as a refurb and upgrate or trying to run it on a shoe string and banging go faster bits on it when it's not in the best of health. How many Zed on this forum still have 11 + year old rubber pipework on their cars. It's past its sell by date going porous and splitting etc. Please poeple get the basics right first, but that what they want to do they are entittled to if that rings their bells.

 

:rant: That feels better

good point well put

What a great thread :)

Thats a Good post :) And certainly not the first time ive heard the Jun/Cosworth story mentioned either! I just wasnt sure how true it was!

Your all asking the questions and overlooking the obvious answers. Which everyone keeps saying and yet carn't seem to see.

 

The car was state of the art when design 20 tears ago and went into production 18 years ago with the VG30DETT which is a revised version of the previous VG30DET.

 

The VG30DET is even older and used in the Z31 So in 1987 when the Z32 hit the drawing board Nissan where already tuning an old engine.

 

Someone here also said that Nissan won Le Mans with the VG engine. Well no they didn't. Steve Hillen (founder of Stillen Motorsport) won the GT catergory with heavily reworked VG. Nissan actually won Le Mans with the VH39 which is a V8 and a second rework of the earlier VH35 & the Basis for the VH45.

 

The top tuners in the world are in actual fact based in the UK and the contract tunner that did all the work on the so called Japanese world braker Jun 300zx was in fact Ford owned UK based Tuner Coswerth. Who make all the Jun internals and did all the turbo flow specs etc. The rest of the Jap tuning world follow the Jun(Coswerth) lead and it is infact the Japanese and the Yanks that haven't come up with anything new. They apply the same formula to all the cars they tune.

 

The Germans invented superchargers in the 1920's and Bentley inveted Turbo charging a few years later. Thats all the Yanks do bang bigger Turbos or Superchargers on a even bigger V8 or V10. The Bentley brothers and Merc were the people that invented balance cranks, slipper pistons etc. I remember seeing a 1930's Whites Healy Tourer. It was a 4.ltr V6 with twin overhead cams, bucket and shims over dual tension valve springs. It pulled 98bhp and could do 120mph. The japs know nothing about tuning their just good at taking other people ideas and making the kit a bit better.

 

The reason that all the Indy car engines and most of the F1 engines and bodys are made in England is because the UK has the best tuners in the world. Also most people that want to have high powered cars go and buy just that and then tune them. I have a friend who make a living by tuning and preparing Porshes for racing. 900bhp isn't Navarna for these guys it being competertive.

 

So why don't you see them at dragg strips blowing the Skylines into the weeds. Well most racing drivers or people that like to race see hurling a car down a stait as pretty pointless and not much of a test of there skill, inteligence relyability and also a test of the most important part of any tuning exercise the handling.

 

I also think that its a different mind set. If drag racing realy is your ultimate test of a performance car get a jet engine and fasten it on the roof. It'll pee all over ya skylines etc. Or buy a Katrum and bang a couple of Hyabuza engines in. That would do the same and out handle them etc

 

The Zed is a stylish clasic sports car with power and presance that can be made quick. Its a fun to drive club car and very macho in the samevein as the AC Cobra. If it ever was a super car it isn't now.

 

The reason most don't work properly is because people are trying to make it what it isn't and doing a lot of pointless "tuning" as bragging rights rather than looking at it as a refurb and upgrate or trying to run it on a shoe string and banging go faster bits on it when it's not in the best of health. How many Zed on this forum still have 11 + year old rubber pipework on their cars. It's past its sell by date going porous and splitting etc. Please poeple get the basics right first, but that what they want to do they are entittled to if that rings their bells.

 

:rant: That feels better

 

I will concede and consider myself put right on the le mans engine issue but my info was that Steve Millen had very very close support from the factory as he does to this day in his US nissan franchise. I hear the argument that the UK are top tuners deep in the bowels of motorsport and we are told that we are world leaders in formula one etc but i simply do not buy it. It sounds too much like a re-contructionist "we invented it all" that every nationality likes to say. It was only when i'd travelled a bit and worked in other countries did i realise every country has a guy who invented the telephone, electric light four valve cylinder heads, supercharger etc. etc. Every nation teaches history through its own eyes. The americans have to believe that it was one of them who taught the japanese quality (deming - ingnired at home)

for them to accept obviously superior product.

 

Like you I know for a fact that Cosworth make jun autos pistons in what are niche market volumes just like Chambon of france make their big bore kit long throw crankshafts and rods etc. but dont big them up. They are mere contractors making stuff to the customers specifications. Don't kid yourself they are the major 'tuners'. The the ones doing all the development work, trial and error, investment in money etc. are JUN auto. They have their own machine shop to fabricate and modify the bits they need to help them on their quest they get it right then place orders for the kit to their spec. I submit you cannot even call your self a 'tuner' unless you are designing and developing your own bits.

 

Same story with the indy car engines and bodies assertion sounds nice but we are mere contractors who because of our size don't mind making niche market sized volumes. If us brits were playing such a big role then our companies names would be on the side of the engines and the cars. They are not. The only exception i will cede to is pro-drive on what they have done for scoobies but heres a thing. I spent some time at pro-drive last year at the time they were developing the handling package for the RX8. Let me tell you what it consists of:- Wheels designed then made by.....you know who, bilstein shocks selected from a catalogue and eibach springs and A.R. Bars selected off their website total development work in hours? oooh I'd say about 12.

 

So the japs know nothing about tuning? :shock: one word Honda. look at what they were doing with race engines in the 60's. Look at what mazda have done with the rotary engine that ****el / NSU could not. Does anyone still really believe that the japs don't have any ideas of their own? :rolleyes: If so you have clearly never worked with jap automotive guys. :bow:

 

I sat in on a meeting many years back and watched British engineers in awe of their honda 'partners' as they coached every step of the design of a great 'british' engine. The brits almost wet their pants when they then went on to show them how to make it and make money building it too.

 

There are no UK tuners that deserve that title, probably just one or two good engineers the rest are what the japanese would call 'catalogue' engineers.

 

Agree 100% bout 'drab racing'

Agree 100% about Z owners 'tuning' quests

Agree 100% that to put an RB in a Z is interesting but probably a 'backward step'

 

respectfully

 

chris

I will concede and consider myself put right on the le mans engine issue but my info was that Steve Millen had very very close support from the factory as he does to this day in his US nissan franchise. I hear the argument that the UK are top tuners deep in the bowels of motorsport and we are told that we are world leaders in formula one etc but i simply do not buy it. It sounds too much like a re-contructionist "we invented it all" that every nationality likes to say. It was only when i'd travelled a bit and worked in other countries did i realise every country has a guy who invented the telephone, electric light four valve cylinder heads, supercharger etc. etc. Every nation teaches history through its own eyes. The americans have to believe that it was one of them who taught the japanese quality (deming - ingnired at home)

for them to accept obviously superior product.

 

Like you I know for a fact that Cosworth make jun autos pistons in what are niche market volumes just like Chambon of france make their big bore kit long throw crankshafts and rods etc. but dont big them up. They are mere contractors making stuff to the customers specifications. Don't kid yourself they are the major 'tuners'. The the ones doing all the development work, trial and error, investment in money etc. are JUN auto. They have their own machine shop to fabricate and modify the bits they need to help them on their quest they get it right then place orders for the kit to their spec. I submit you cannot even call your self a 'tuner' unless you are designing and developing your own bits.

 

Same story with the indy car engines and bodies assertion sounds nice but we are mere contractors who because of our size don't mind making niche market sized volumes. If us brits were playing such a big role then our companies names would be on the side of the engines and the cars. They are not. The only exception i will cede to is pro-drive on what they have done for scoobies but heres a thing. I spent some time at pro-drive last year at the time they were developing the handling package for the RX8. Let me tell you what it consists of:- Wheels designed then made by.....you know who, bilstein shocks selected from a catalogue and eibach springs and A.R. Bars selected off their website total development work in hours? oooh I'd say about 12.

 

So the japs know nothing about tuning? :shock: one word Honda. look at what they were doing with race engines in the 60's. Look at what mazda have done with the rotary engine that ****el / NSU could not. Does anyone still really believe that the japs don't have any ideas of their own? :rolleyes: If so you have clearly never worked with jap automotive guys. :bow:

 

I sat in on a meeting many years back and watched British engineers in awe of their honda 'partners' as they coached every step of the design of a great 'british' engine. The brits almost wet their pants when they then went on to show them how to make it and make money building it too.

 

There are no UK tuners that deserve that title, probably just one or two good engineers the rest are what the japanese would call 'catalogue' engineers.

 

Agree 100% bout 'drab racing'

Agree 100% about Z owners 'tuning' quests

Agree 100% that to put an RB in a Z is interesting but probably a 'backward step'

 

respectfully

 

chris

 

I suggest you actually do some proper research.

 

Tell us all what other great achievements Jun have done in the tuning world. Then look at what Coswerth have done and continue to do for many manufacturers including Rolls Royce, Bentley, Norton,Simitar(as in APC's) Vickeks as in (Chalenger 1 & 2 and the desiel engines used on Nuclear subs), Jaguar and Volvo under the Coswerth subsiduary known as RICA). Oh yes and of course I almost forgot Ford. Jun where just cutomers who ask the worlds top tuner (of then) to develop a product for them. That is what tunners do. The customer once he's paid can have who ever he like to make it, but the Tuner RD engineers are the people that are hired to do the innervation.

 

Your going to tell me that Rodney Mugen isn't English as well and that Hondas RD isn't done by his company. That the Mugen F1 engines arn't designed tested and developed in the UK buy Mugen. That any of the Mugen tunning parts used for Honda production cars are not developed by Mugen for there customer Honda.

 

Go on the fact that the Word Mazda is the japanese word meaning a shallow place to cross a river may have something to do with the fact that it is also a wholey owned, developed and invented company by its parent company FORD. That yet again the engerneering development or "tuning" for the Mazda rotory engine came from fords rights bought off Norton Motorcycles. Whos Rotory engine development was done by that niche manufacturer Coswerth angain. Yes Norton were the customer this time. Just as if I wanted a Porsche tuning in the UK I could go to dpmotorsport as a customer.

 

Its not beating some British drum. You said there where no real british tuners and that the Japs lead the way. I'm just explaining to you that your veiw is tainted and totally untrue.

 

Besides the above there's TWR, Hart, Ilmor (make Merc F1 engines and do RD for AMD) Judd (Yammaha F1 engines and GP motor bikes) Paggett, Prosport who build and develop all aspects of the actual Subaru Race Rally cars and loads more including the firm that make the Peuget Rally cars.

 

The worlds Car manufacturers come hear for the worlds best expertise and pay billions for it. Or because we're niche manufacturers? MMMMMMM I think that is a no brainer. Comon think about what your saying.

 

Getting you arse kicked or kicking your competitions arse is worth billions to the motor industry and they will pay for the edge. Thats why they come here.

 

I carn't be arsed doing a search for the name of the Renault F1 engine manufacturer. But guess what they are an English firm as well. Only Ferrari and Toyota F1 engines arn't built in the UK, but more than 50% of their engineers and both Toyota and Ferrari's top engineers are English.

 

Steve Hillen was a works Nissan Sports car Driver, hence the link and franchise. Just the same as Andy Middlehurst in the UK and has done like Blitz HKS and Jun. They have bought in bulk under licence top tunners developments to sell as branded goods at a 30% markup. They invent and develop Nothing.

 

Since the first Patent was listed the Germans and the British account for 60+% of all patented invention.

 

Yes the japanese are much better at organising and putting into practise but we are the best at innervation because all our lives we have to make do or find a way to make the crap we've got do the job we want.

you need to get out more mark :duffer: :tongue:

 

its all that living in wales for ya :rofl: :rofl:

Your right I need to escape to the sun and Ride motorbikes for a living. Holy shit thats just the job I've been offered in southern spain + accomodation and £30K chucked in.

Your right I need to escape to the sun and Ride motorbikes for a living. Holy shit thats just the job I've been offered in southern spain + accomodation and £30K chucked in.

 

fook it mate, lets leave the families behind and both do it :dance:

 

maybe we can start up a spanish 300zx club up and argue about shite over there :tongue:

Have you got your bike licence cos there maybe another job going. I'm in 2 minds what to do.

 

It's taking fellow bikers on tours of southern spain. What a ball hache job hey :rofl: :rofl:

Ahhh gosh, you're so purdy when you're all fired up Maaaark... :p :D

On a more serious note, just to echo Duffs sentiments earlier, this thread has been a bloody good read, some great insights! And BTW, great news on the job offer mate, bet you're tempted as hell! :dance:

Ahhh gosh, you're so purdy when you're all fired up Maaaark... :p :D

On a more serious note, just to echo Duffs sentiments earlier, this thread has been a bloody good read, some great insights! And BTW, great news on the job offer mate, bet you're tempted as hell! :dance:

 

Very tempted its a dream job, just showing people around and then taking them to my favourite places for lunch and once a week taking 4 profficient riders on a track day a Jereth on 2 stroke 500cc GP bikes.

Very tempted its a dream job, just showing people around and then taking them to my favourite places for lunch and once a week taking 4 profficient riders on a track day a Jereth on 2 stroke 500cc GP bikes.

Take it!

(*thinks*...then rent your pad to me and the missus for 2 weeks in the summer while you come to check back on things in old Blighty! :D )

Take it!

(*thinks*...then rent your pad to me and the missus for 2 weeks in the summer while you come to check back on things in old Blighty! :D )

 

:D :D :D :D

do it mate, and if you do let me know ill come over to spain and show you how to ride!

Have you got your bike licence cos there maybe another job going. I'm in 2 minds what to do.

 

It's taking fellow bikers on tours of southern spain. What a ball hache job hey :rofl: :rofl:

 

If I could ride a bike I'd come with ya! LOL

How about taking them round in my Z instead ;)

 

I could bring the boat too, there's a lot of water to explore in the med! :dance: