If this is a repost i appologise.

 

I aint really sure why I am bothering but.........................

 

Has anyone got any information on this new idea of identity cards? I have heard that we will all have to have one and apparently we will have to give an eye scan and finger print scan plus something else on the register? They will be linked to our bank account and the government will be able to trace our every move, The excuse is TERRORISM??????

 

Is it a wind up or the truth. I also heard that the Anglia region is the first to have it imposed.

 

Again not sure about the source but it sounds like a pi55 take to me?

 

Thanks Vini

 

This government already wants to know too much - like the 2011 census demanding we declare income etc. Why?

Richard

 

 

Because you may not know this but the census information is sold to marketing companies for profit. The more information they can have relivent to marketing, the more companies they can sell the data too.

its our own fault ( those of us that vote ) ..we voted these f**kwits in power AGAIN !!

 

we dont have to vote for the major 3 parties .........next time vote UK independant or BNP they are no longer nazi thugs and street roaming skinhead loonies they are as concerned about such matters as imigration , slackers , law breakers , lack of family commitment to pregnant law breaking 13 year old chavettes and their peodophillic spotty track suit wearing pond life monobraincelled partners , if you are fed up of paying for others to live on your taxes without lifting a finger and free loaders coming in by the plane load for free hospital treatment and whatever else our lunatic social system feels free to hand out at the tax payers expense use the only tool in your arsenal ...either vore radical or DONT VOTE at all ........rant over .sorry

They get my vote, I think something radical needs to be done as this country is almost down the shitter now and there is no way any of the big 3 parties will do anything radical and risk loosing the votes from the "minorities"

thats all great for people who like living under total controll,the controlling forces of this country (govement,police,revenue collecting institutions) find there job a thousand times easier iff the people (us) are living under a cloak of fear and intimadation. the govement would rather pay benefits to 50 people and have controll than not know what 1 person are up to that happen not to be in the system :( ive never been in the system and dont intend to either,i dont have a credit card,i dont vote,i dont fill in any kind of form,i dont do surveys,i allways give contraditory information to the "system" when i have to so it makes there job harder to pigeon hole me :tongue: and yes i work 7 days a week ime law ibiding and dont hurt or insult anyone but i take fvking great offence when some white collar lemming knob tells me what,where,and when i can do something :mad: this country needs an uprising but it will never happen because the nation is now a shivering nervous wreck thats been brought on by constant threat of prosecution by pc,s and the worst offence of not being the same

 

ps try a experiment like i did once, dont read a newspaper,watch tv news,listen to radio news,webb news and after a couple of weeks you dont give a fvk about anything but the family and your head gets "cleansed" from propaganda, feel the sacks of burden get lifted off your shoulders :) :cool:

 

:shock:

Yes, our system leads to gladiatorial politics and trying to win votes. And we could argue the pros and cons of Mrs T all day. But I still can't see a down side to ID cards except cost and I hope we'd recoup it in the medium to long term.

 

You cant see a down side, but tell me what the UP side is. Its not going to stop terrorism. Because Police cant stop ever person on every street every day to check if they have a card. And if they are able to do that this country would be beyond a dictatorship. What happens if they dont have a card? Do they get arrested? Do they then have the right to search them?

 

But they want the Id cards to hold lots of personal information. Medical data, bank data, work, address, kin, lots of personal and what should be protected data. Data which can easily be stolen by passing it through a card reader.

I've yet to see a real situation where ID cards will cause a problem.

 

Only paranoid rants and vague comments on the political system.

 

Give me a specific scenario where having these cars will hurt decent, law abiding people?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Come on, think it through - here's an opportunity to get rid of loads of illegal immigrants. Really, where's the downside?

I've yet to see a real situation where ID cards will cause a problem.

 

Only paranoid rants and vague comments on the political system.

 

Give me a specific scenario where having these cars will hurt decent, law abiding people?

 

Come on, think it through - here's an opportunity to get rid of loads of illegal immigrants. Really, where's the downside?

 

I think you're missing the point, it won't help the the fight against terrorism, it won't get rid of illigal immigrants (they don't have any id anyway)... in fact I really dont see any point to them.

 

This would be a very big step towards a totally controlled population, and the Uk would be far from a 'free' country.

 

Also, who's going to be allowed to have access to this central database?

 

No system is 100% secure, and giving fraudsters just one target would surely make it easy for them to steal your identity / life...

 

just my two cents...

 

snx.

I think you're missing the point, it won't help the the fight against terrorism, it won't get rid of illigal immigrants (they don't have any id anyway)... in fact I really dont see any point to them.

 

This would be a very big step towards a totally controlled population, and the Uk would be far from a 'free' country.

 

Also, who's going to be allowed to have access to this central database?

 

No system is 100% secure, and giving fraudsters just one target would surely make it easy for them to steal your identity / life...

 

just my two cents...

 

snx.

 

I would say it will help get rid of illegal immigrants and help fight terrorism.

 

I can't see how it infringes on law abiding individuals in any way.

 

And I didn't think it'd be linked to banks etc so your identity would be hard to steal.

 

 

 

 

It would enable customs / the police / whoever to turn up at fruit picking places etc - whereever illegal immigrants work - check their ID cards - those that don' have them get sent back (or as a default send them to Chad if they won't say where they're from).

 

I'm sure it would help prevent terrorism but they are more sophisticated / have more resources so maybe less so - but surely it couldn't hurt?

 

 

 

 

I still can't see any specific downsides - just vauge things about freedom and big brother paranoia.

 

I'm not caliming it'd be perfect but surely it'd help. So many people complain about illegal immigrants - can you come up with a better system to get them out?

there was an interesting stat on the radio last week that there were 1500 imergrations into the uk every week, but it was OK because 1000 UK citizens a week were emigrating!

 

Yes this is true but what they do not point out is the majority of our mob

emigrating take a shit load of money with them.

 

The ones coming our way turn up with there arses hanging out

 

It would enable customs / the police / whoever to turn up at fruit picking places etc - whereever illegal immigrants work - check their ID cards - those that don' have them get sent back (or as a default send them to Chad if they won't say where they're from).

 

Isn't that what a passport should do.

And they do not do anything obout this labour becase the fruit would rot without them as our people would not work for the shite wages they pay due

to TESCO screwing the growers into the floor

I think it infringes on law abiding individuals because law abiding individuals will be required to purchase them and get treated like criminals.

 

The terrorists are already well versed in ID handling and technology, it won't make any difference them, with all the countries that already have ID cards there has yet to be a single incident in which the ID card has helped detect or prevent a terrorist incident. A few major terrorist incidents down the line and people would be required to carry them, as soon as this happens everyone with remotely dark skin will constantly be asked to produce them, it will just be another way that racsim and discrimination are forced on the population- young black males are already grossly over represented in the DNA database.

 

Do you mean that anyone with a foreign accent will be required to carry the new cards for fear of being deported? France has had ID cards for a long time and it still has MASSIVE problems with imigration. Whether the immigrants have a card or not is irrelevant, there are already plenty of ways of permanently identifiying immigrants, the problem is with finding and catching them, not finding out whether they're legal or not once they've been caught (also I think part of the immigration problem is a negligent government that wouldn't know a policy if it hit them in the face).

 

It won't actually provide ANY of the benefits the governement claim it would, the technoclogy they are going to use has already been cracked. One of the downsides is it will be like chip and pin all over again, yeah its a little more difficult to fake but when they do they'll have access to everything, your bank, your customer loyaly accounts, your driving license, your benefits ie. everything. And with all the extra proposed uses of the cards the potential for data theft and fraud will actually go up not down.

 

The fact that Tony wants peoples iris and fingerprint scans to go on these things just says it all about how much the government knows what its talking about- retinal scan technology doesn't work on 1 in 5 people!!

I'm not saying it'll be perfect, but it surely has to make it harder for illegal immigrants and maybe terrorists too.

 

I'd be happy to be stopped and asked to show my card to the police at any time. I'm not doing anything wrong and I wouldn't see it as being picked on or singled out for any reason. I don't see why any law abiding citized would have a problem with this.

 

Can anyone who doesn't want these cards think of a better way of reducing the problems?

Other than the terrorist threat the Authorities know who and where most

of the illiegal immigrants are, they also know who most of the smack head thieving scum in the streets are. Its just they do not have the power, resources or the fooking inclination to do anything about it.

 

 

 

:rolleyes: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6123534.stm :rolleyes:

My point is it doesn't make it any harder at all for the immigrants and terrorists. It would make no difference whatsoever to terrorism (a lot of terrorists are able to commit offences using perfectly legitimate tourist visas). It would make no difference at all to our immigration problems, who the immigrants are is not in question at all- they are already fingerprinted for identification, the problem comes in locating them once they enter illegally/jump their visa. ID cards haven't made ANY difference to the immigration and terrorism problems that other countries have, they will make no difference here.

 

I would definately have a problem with being stopped and asked to produce my ID as I'm not doing anything wrong, I don't plan on doing anything wrong and there would be no possible reason for the policeman to need to know who I am, I wonder how he would react if I demanded to see his ID in return (and if I were some dodgy character/terrorist I would just show him my fake card, btw. 2/3 terrorists actually use they're real identity, the other 1/3 just use fakes). I also think that every black/veiled/even slightly coloured person would have a big problem as they would be bombarded with requests for their ID.

 

Any way other than implementing ID cards could be argued as a better way of reducing the problems as implementing the cards will cost a ridiculous amount of money (20 billion) they could have actually gone toward reducing the problems instead of a useless panacea.

How about improving border security in this country? giving border countrol more than the 9% of resources they need to police our borders. Increasing the budget of the immigration and nationality directorate by a factor of 10 and giving them remotely effective powers to deport people for one (although the govenrment have been so negliegent on policy that nothing short of closing the borders will work now). Currently the IND has only a tiny fraction of the number of officers they need to find and deport the illegals (I don't know the exact figure but its pretty low).

How about removing the police targets that have crippled policing in this country? How about bringing in new sentencing powers that would actually allow the public to have some faith in the justice system?

How about increasing the number of police patrols that has been falling year after year?

How about not following the US into evey war they decide to declare because they need a bit of oil and something to distract their population from a failing economy? Our countries recent actions have cemented a new generation of terrorists that we'll be getting flack from 20 years from now.

 

Oh god I think I'm going into rant mode, someone throw a bucket of water over me.

Ok, that sounds quite reasonable.

 

If all that's true (and I've no reason to suggest it isn't) ID cards could well be a bad idea.

 

Much more convincing than the 'big brother' 'taking our freedom' thing IMHO.

Did no one read my post? No? Easier to fly into rampant jingoism? Ok, look...the proposed ID cards are not going to happen overnight. In fact the proposed scheme, as it stands now, is circling the drain (read the many reports...1st one was leaked to the Times months ago).

However. Are ID cards eventually going to be implemented? Yes. But not through the system we're currently railing against. The IPS (formerly the Passport Service) have been brewing plans for a similar ID scheme for the past few years and once the governments ID scheme is dead and buried, this will still be going strong. Classic mis-direction. As they used to say in The Prisoner "By hook or by crook..."

The last I saw on the subject was on Channel Four news about a month ago where the officials behind the moves admitted they probably didn't have the funds to implement either the iris or finger print identification. Instead they said they'd be using "image recognition technology"....which is government speak for "a photo". Which we already have. Okaaaaay.... :headvswal

 

I've seen recent technology where a grid can be formed using key points on the face - eyes, mouth, nose, cheekbones etc.

 

Each person's is distinctive and may even be unique. It's been used to make convictions in court. This could be what they mean, not just a photo.

I've seen recent technology where a grid can be formed using key points on the face - eyes, mouth, nose, cheekbones etc.

 

Each person's is distinctive and may even be unique. It's been used to make convictions in court. This could be what they mean, not just a photo.

When John Snow said "so you mean a photo?" and the official replied "er...yes", it seemed fairly conclusive to me. ;) No mention was made of facial scanning tech.

 

Personally I think they're nobbling us via other nefarious means...from the Gospel of Danny:

 

"I don't advise a haircut, man. All hairdressers are in the employment of the government. Hair are your aerials. They pick up signals from the cosmos and transmit them directly into the brain. This is the reason bald-headed men are uptight."

 

Scary stuff indeed.

 

:D ;)

Ok, that sounds quite reasonable.

 

If all that's true (and I've no reason to suggest it isn't) ID cards could well be a bad idea.

 

Much more convincing than the 'big brother' 'taking our freedom' thing IMHO.

 

This is the first time I've ever debated something with someone on the net and not ended up wanting to strangle them ;) (edit: just in case that could be in any way misconstrued- it means I like your style) Although I have to admit I am one of the anti-big brother loonies, its whats led me to follow this ID card shenanigans from the beginning.

 

You are correct about the facial recognition stuff, I personally think its a much better way of detecting/identifying people/terrorists (barring any misidentifications and head shootings). as it can be done from a distance and the information can be readily shared between countries, it can also be done separate from population data gathering and doesnt require us all to be fingerprinted and sampled (although you could argue that a # function applied to your face is the same thing).

 

Re: the failure of the ID card scheme, all signs point to it failing but I wouldn't put it past Tony and his Cronies to blindly and poorly rush through something that they particularly want to (like a war). But you're right about the passports being a backup for the ID scheme- they always were, and its a European requirement for them to go biometric soon so it looks like we're stuck with them, the difference being that it won't be and eventually imprisonable offence to not have a passport.

 

You are correct about the facial recognition stuff, I personally think its a much better way of detecting/identifying people/terrorists

 

they will all start wearing veils and get around that one.

I think you're missing the point, it won't help the the fight against terrorism, it won't get rid of illigal immigrants (they don't have any id anyway)... in fact I really dont see any point to them.

 

This would be a very big step towards a totally controlled population, and the Uk would be far from a 'free' country.

 

Also, who's going to be allowed to have access to this central database?

 

No system is 100% secure, and giving fraudsters just one target would surely make it easy for them to steal your identity / life...

 

just my two cents...

 

snx.

:bow: :bow:

I've seen recent technology where a grid can be formed using key points on the face - eyes, mouth, nose, cheekbones etc.

 

Each person's is distinctive and may even be unique. It's been used to make convictions in court. This could be what they mean, not just a photo.

oh well i dont mind that then,iff they scanned my facial features they would have me down as living in chester zoo :p

whats the difference to now anyway????

 

i was pulled over for talking on the mobile phone - ok ok i know

i produced my driving licence but was still given a producer for "failing to provide insurance and mot documents when asked by a police officer" wtf i didint realise it was an offence!!! :slap:

 

Regards,

 

alex

This is the first time I've ever debated something with someone on the net and not ended up wanting to strangle them ;) (edit: just in case that could be in any way misconstrued- it means I like your style) Although I have to admit I am one of the anti-big brother loonies, its whats led me to follow this ID card shenanigans from the beginning.

 

 

Thank you!

 

If someone comes up with a resonable argument I'm prepared to change my point of view. That's rare in internet 'debates' where most people just state their case, state it louder then swear at each other when they don't agree.

 

 

Can you really believe 'they' want to track us etc? Surely there's no-one who is that bothered or has enough to gain to make it worth while.