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you may or may not have read about me quitting my current job and trying to get into I.T. - mainly software development with C/VB.NET, ASP/PHP etc.

 

i have a (7 year old) degree in Software Engineering, boat loads of programming experience, but nothing commercial - and thats what employers need to hear. anyway, enough of the background, down to the point:

 

someone my parents know has suggested I go to a 'boot camp' where you get 2/3 week intensive training and end up with MCSE certification. however, looking at the site it just appears to be server/network management and nothing much to do with software development.

 

http://www.vibrantbootcamp.co.uk/microsoft/mcse_boot_camp.htm

http://www.trainingcamp.co.uk/uk/mcse2003.asp

 

is it worth me spending £5k on this course? are these microsoft certificates any good? are they better than my degree? are there any better options?

 

ive only got 2 weeks and then im jobless :headvswal

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Its best to gear yourself as a total solution provider like my mate is. So you need web front end, java, php, .net middle end and SQL backend skills. MCSE's is for IT plumbers like me but if your doing devlopment go for a MSCD which is for devlopers. I hate academic work, as soon as i pick up a text book i fall asleep and i never really been able to afford a 'boot camp'. But im more managerial nowadays.

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Waste of money, IMO. Just spend some time/money advertising yourself.

Also, have you considered Contracting? I never did but I've been at my current place for 19 months now and it's all good. You'd be surprised how bad PC knowledge is even at aerospace companies.

 

Good luck, mate.

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Waste of money, IMO. Just spend some time/money advertising yourself.

Also, have you considered Contracting? I never did but I've been at my current place for 19 months now and it's all good. You'd be surprised how bad PC knowledge is even at aerospace companies.

 

Good luck, mate.

 

 

Its not a waste of money. Have a look at most IT engineer jobs, and they are mostly asking for MCSE. You will probably learn very little from the actual courses of you are already an engineer, but it is a piece of paper which shows proof you know it.

It is an international recognised qualification.

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But £5k? They should give them away in packets of cornflakes.

 

 

5k is for all the courses.

 

The exams cost £80-£120 each and you need 5 certain ones.

 

Other alternative is to go to university and pay £4000 a year for something which means feck all in the real world.

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Waste of money, IMO. Just spend some time/money advertising yourself.

Also, have you considered Contracting? I never did but I've been at my current place for 19 months now and it's all good. You'd be surprised how bad PC knowledge is even at aerospace companies.

 

Good luck, mate.

i did contacting and ther is alot of spanners out there pc knowledge huh i could not beleave how some got there jobs at the end of the day ur out in the field if u cant sort it 1 call for support 24 7 easy plug and play 5 grand dont wase your money :D

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mmm, there are a lot of people with MCSE's that are awfull comptuer techies. It depends on the employer. Large corporates will like MCSE's and people with little experience they can mould fit in a certain shaped hole so to speak so they can be controlled easily. Whereas other employers will go for experience first.

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Guest AngusGlover

Personally I will not employ an IT engineer that has done his MCSE at a Boot Camp. Given the choice of experience over qualifications, I will go with experience.

 

The MCSE is not as valuable as it used to be because so many people have got them.

 

Someone said it is an international recognised qualification, this is true but so is GCSE Arithmetic!!!!

 

If you have a degree in Software Engineering, there are lots of companies out there looking, but don't expect a great salary to start with.

 

Get your CV done, get it out on ALL of the job sites, get networking and put yourself about a bit. In IT nowadays, it is more about who you know, not what you know. I am a contractor doing IT Manager and IT Consultant roles and when I employ engineers etc as contractors, I always keep in touch with the good ones and will call them if I need someone.

 

HTH

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5k is for all the courses.

 

The exams cost £80-£120 each and you need 5 certain ones.

 

Other alternative is to go to university and pay £4000 a year for something which means feck all in the real world.

I bought all of the MCSE courseware DVDs from Ebay for about £15. Seller has since been shut down ;)

 

Steve :)

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Personally I will not employ an IT engineer that has done his MCSE at a Boot Camp. Given the choice of experience over qualifications, I will go with experience.

 

 

I agree in part with that. There are too many people who just do the intensive course or just revise the exam questions. But either way you are really just taking the word of the person that they have that experience.

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Guest AngusGlover

Not really, that is why we have the ability to ask for references on the CV. I also ask very detailed tech questions and make them do a test during the interview.

 

You cannot fake all that....

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Not really, that is why we have the ability to ask for references on the CV. I also ask very detailed tech questions and make them do a test during the interview.

 

You cannot fake all that....

 

CVs can be false. References are often friends, or employer who may want to get rid of the worker and give a good reference.

There are websites with the most common IT questions asked with answers.

 

Maybe you are the exception to the trend.?

 

All I know that I worked my arse off at my old job and I was very good at it, and never got rewarded with experience on setting up servers etc. Their excuse I dont have experience with setting up servers and Im not qualified.

While external people walked in to 2nd line, because they had a MCSE.

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Guest AngusGlover

Interviewing people is a skill that comes through experience. I use it to probe and I quickly know if someone is bullshitting. The test is devised by myself.

 

Not only do I want to know your technical knowledge but I also want to know what you are like as a person becasue when recruiting for a role it is just as important that the person fits into the team.

 

When using references, I follow these up myself and send out only to work addresses. I do not send out reference letters to home addresses.

 

CV's can be false but I will find that out very quickly at the interview...

 

You are not allowed to give a bad reference. All you can do is say that they worked for you. You cannot say that hey were completely useless because it is very subjective.

 

One thing I do say if the person was particularly crap is:

 

"Anyone that can get SRRAE to work for them, is indeed fortunate!!!".....

 

(Just using your name as example dude..)

 

That does the trick...

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you may or may not have read about me quitting my current job and trying to get into I.T. - mainly software development with C/VB.NET, ASP/PHP etc.

 

i have a (7 year old) degree in Software Engineering, boat loads of programming experience, but nothing commercial - and thats what employers need to hear. anyway, enough of the background, down to the point:

 

someone my parents know has suggested I go to a 'boot camp' where you get 2/3 week intensive training and end up with MCSE certification. however, looking at the site it just appears to be server/network management and nothing much to do with software development.

 

http://www.vibrantbootcamp.co.uk/microsoft/mcse_boot_camp.htm

http://www.trainingcamp.co.uk/uk/mcse2003.asp

 

is it worth me spending £5k on this course? are these microsoft certificates any good? are they better than my degree? are there any better options?

 

ive only got 2 weeks and then im jobless :headvswal

 

If I was in your position and wanted to do the backend programming side of things rather than the IT plumbing I would try to get some freelance work, you will be suprised what you can get on the internet.

 

Once you get some real world examples of your work to show potential employers it will help considerably.

 

Chris

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MCSE is more geared towards server and networking technologies. Not sure what to recommend for programming stuff bud...

 

Steve :)

 

You want MSCD, not MCSE.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsd/default.asp

 

Also, i've already got programming eperience, i wouldn't bother with qualifications / training for c# etc. I'd concentrate on the SQL / database side of things.

 

My MCP qualification in SQL is more useful than the fact that i can code in c# or vb.net etc.

 

snx.

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You want MSCD, not MCSE.

 

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/mcsd/default.asp

 

Also, i've already got programming eperience, i wouldn't bother with qualifications / training for c# etc. I'd concentrate on the SQL / database side of things.

 

My MCP qualification in SQL is more useful than the fact that i can code in c# or vb.net etc.

 

snx.

 

Exactly! Oracle DBA/SQL/SAP are the future. And database stuff is a piece of cake to anyone who can actually program.

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