Just having a browse through some specs for some fast new metal and comparing them to the zed.

 

Right, the zed is getting on a bit in years although its performance is still considered good compared to current fast cars. But I wonder how long this will last?

 

IE, when the M3 originally came out in E30 guise, it came with a 2.2 16v 195bhp engine being replaced with a 235bhp 2.5

 

Then it was considered almost a semi super car....the Astra VXR has more power now which is a decent 'hot hatch', something that was given to the rather 'slow' MK1 Golf GTi. So is the old M3 still that good?

 

Looking on a bit further, the current M3 has around 350bhp. The new one I'll suspect having close to 400bhp (and darn right hideous)....but is the M3 considered a super car or is it considered a GT? The Zed originally was classed as Japan's first supercar, but now it's considered a GT?

 

The new Saab V6 turbo / Vectra VXR share a new 3.2 V6 turbo unit producing 250bhp. Although still short of the zed, as with a lot of things Vauxhall, tuning accessories will have it close to 300bhp fairly easily and relatively quicly.

 

Does the Zed just then become an old Japanise coupe? I'd like to think that cars also hold status and thus, newer more powerful 'lesser' cars will not have this status.

 

..........just thoughts for the day........

Oi :mad: i used to own mk3 supras, and they aint that bad granted there no 300zx but they are still the best value for money if your looking for something fast good looking and semi reliable. :bow:

 

I had 2 mk3 Supras before my 300zx. Sure the Mk3 Soop was a good car and can still hold its own with many current so-called sports cars, I loved the performance and grip.......

 

.....until I bought my ZX (stock-ish UK spec auto). In all respects it is way superior to the Mk3 Supra. It is much faster, handles better, sounds sweeter and has not really dated. In fact even the Mk4 Soop looks dated compared to a ZX (Mk4 Soop is still a great car though).

 

As for the supercar comparison, the 300zx was indeed billed as Japan's first supercar because at the time no other Japanese car was quick enough to need limiting to 155mph and as a drivers car it was unsurpassed, save for very expensive Italian or German exotica......

 

Also at the time the Porsche 928gt, although still acknowledged as the granddaddy of all GT cars, was classed in the supercar league. The 300zx stuffed Porsche's best testers in the 330bhp 928GT round the Nurburgring :tongue:

 

I do not think the 300zx is a true supercar by any means, that is reserved for things like the Bugatti Veyron, McLaren F1, Jag XJ220, Diablo, Ferarri F50 etc. However a more accurate description would be "Junior Supercar" A status also attributable to the Mk4 Supra, Skyline, NSX, Pork 928gt/s Boxter-S and 944T, Jag XKR, Aston DB7, Maseratti 3200 etc etc.

 

Richard :)

I had 2 mk3 Supras before my 300zx. Sure the Mk3 Soop was a good car and can still hold its own with many current so-called sports cars, I loved the performance and grip.......

 

.....until I bought my ZX (stock-ish UK spec auto). In all respects it is way superior to the Mk3 Supra. It is much faster, handles better, sounds sweeter and has not really dated. In fact even the Mk4 Soop looks dated compared to a ZX (Mk4 Soop is still a great car though).

 

As for the supercar comparison, the 300zx was indeed billed as Japan's first supercar because at the time no other Japanese car was quick enough to need limiting to 155mph and as a drivers car it was unsurpassed, save for very expensive Italian or German exotica......

 

Also at the time the Porsche 928gt, although still acknowledged as the granddaddy of all GT cars, was classed in the supercar league. The 300zx stuffed Porsche's best testers in the 330bhp 928GT round the Nurburgring :tongue:

 

I do not think the 300zx is a true supercar by any means, that is reserved for things like the Bugatti Veyron, McLaren F1, Jag XJ220, Diablo, Ferarri F50 etc. However a more accurate description would be "Junior Supercar" A status also attributable to the Mk4 Supra, Skyline, NSX, Pork 928gt/s Boxter-S and 944T, Jag XKR, Aston DB7, Maseratti 3200 etc etc.

 

Richard :)

 

:bow: :bow:

 

Best response to a question I've ever seen on here. :duffer:

I'd go with the Wikipedia definition. Apart from being an interesting read, I think it's right that the term supercar should only be applied to real exotica with truly out of band performance. Personally I'm of the school of thought that says if it won't do 200 mph it's not a supercar. The acceleration is obviously also important. So, any votes as to how long it will be before the Bugatti Veyron is no longer classifiable as a supercar? I reckon about 20 years.

It's just that Nissan did a good job and built a good GT to justify the extra outlay, and so they should, considering that the MK3 Supra was 5 years old when the Z32 was launched.

 

Like the 300ZX was 4 year old when the Mk4 supra came along. And the Z31 was 2 years old when the MK3 Supra came along.

 

Supercars are known for using technical new ideas when the come out which the filter to other cars in the market. Remember the 300ZX had New Processes used to allow a sleek bonnet without Pop up lights, this filtered down to the lesser cars a few yar later like the lamoborghini Diablo. Its had the HICAS 4WS System, Sophisticated Multi Link Suspension, Novel Twin Orifice Power Steering System, Direct Ignition.

 

I agree its really a GT, but its not even comparable to the MK3 Supra.

IMO any FWD car with more than 220hp is just silly and a pretender to be a supercar. Zee germans have produced quite a few saloon cars with RWD which are really really fast. Such as recent BMW M5's and Mercedes AMG cars. I would call them supercars.

I have always liked Bentley Turbo R's :)

Oi :mad: i used to own mk3 supras, and they aint that bad granted there no 300zx but they are still the best value for money if your looking for something fast good looking and semi reliable. :bow:

:p i was being honest,maybe to honest,as said the cars were introduced at differant times the mk3 supra was developed to compete with the old 300zx z31,when the 300zx z32 came out toyota introduced the mk 4 supra so its all competition,i just think the mk 3 supra is like the z31 has dated badly

MK3 Supra is tons better than the Z31 IMHO. Not considered either, but the Supra is tons better looking than the Z31

Like the 300ZX was 4 year old when the Mk4 supra came along. And the Z31 was 2 years old when the MK3 Supra came along.

 

I agree its really a GT, but its not even comparable to the MK3 Supra.

 

 

To be honest, there's not much to separate the MK3 to the Z32. Top of the line, fully loaded options on both cars, not much to separate the two. Styling is a matter of opinion. The MK3 Supra is conservative GT, the ZX is more aggressive and appears "faster". In this day and age, you will see more ZX's in good condition than you will find MK3 Supras in good condition. Most people's "opinions" here are skewed by their experience with a 1988 E plate sh!tter, and then compare it to their own clean ZX.

 

Just because it has 50 horsepower more, the cars do not become incomparable. That's just brand/badge ignorance.

 

 

 

Supercars are known for using technical new ideas when the come out which the filter to other cars in the market. Remember the 300ZX had New Processes used to allow a sleek bonnet without Pop up lights, this filtered down to the lesser cars a few yar later like the lamoborghini Diablo. Its had the HICAS 4WS System, Sophisticated Multi Link Suspension, Novel Twin Orifice Power Steering System, Direct Ignition.

 

That's just your personal definition of a supercar. I have asked people earlier in this thread to analyse the themes and trends among all supercars past and present. When a car maker decides to design and build a supercar, there is enough evidence out there that they try to stick close to the common themes, and then expand on other areas to give their product distriction and competitiveness. They don't limit themselves to a heavy steel monocoque chassis, stick in a V6, 2 turbos, offer 5 speed AND auto tranny options and sell it for just 40 grand. That's no formula for a supercar.

 

 

You mention new technologies. That's just one aspect that is often introduced in supercars, but its not exclusive in that genre of car. I can list dozens of cars of different genres that introduced new useful and non-useful technologies, and none of them are at all performance cars, let alone the Supercar elite.

Anh, where would you end comparisons. Yes, at the end of the day they are both RWD turbo charged 6 cylinders coupes, but one is far more supriour than the other and 50bhp is a fair bit for the time.

Anh, where would you end comparisons. Yes, at the end of the day they are both RWD turbo charged 6 cylinders coupes, but one is far more supriour than the other and 50bhp is a fair bit for the time.

 

The only thing in my opinion that is "superior" in the ZX is the interior trim and styling. I like the design of the rear lamps too, much more imagination and flair than the crappy euro lights we got on the MK3.

 

As for horsepower, not a problem, Toyota kept the standard boost to 6 psi, vs 9 psi with Nissan. The real issue is the straight-6 engine is old, and is not very tolerant to faulty or old worn parts so its difficult to keep it reliable without changing to new parts and regular maintenence.

I'd add the engine and handling to that as well.

I'd add the engine and handling to that as well.

 

Handling? Well that's down to personal preference.

 

Engine wise, what makes the VG30DETT superior?

Engine wise, what makes the VG30DETT superior?

 

You've already stated it in your previous post.

You've already stated it in your previous post.

 

Stock boost doesn't determine what engine is superior.

 

And I doubt a 15 year old VG30DETT is care-free, I'm pretty sure the "reliable ones" still running had plenty of parts changed over through the years.

Well...and this is in my opinion. As 'standard' the 300 is quicker, to me, it feels more refined and much smoother than the MK3 Supra. The whole package is just far nicer. But again, that's my opinion.

Guys your arguing over what end of the same stick is better.

 

Ahn there are "supercars" or exotics that need a complete list of things changing every 1000 miles or so, so you argument as to a sup vs a Z maintenaces is off topic.

 

Is the Z a supercar or just a very good GT?

 

Acording to press articles, yes it is.

 

So if the main criteria of a car being called one by the media is achieved it is in fact a supercar.

 

On performance, hell mines a 1989, and in its standard form blew away anything that wasnt super unique.

 

 

But I have the end of all queries.

 

A supercar is defined a supercar by the oppinion of a schoolboy.

And my car stops them dead in their tracks.

 

here endeth the lesson.

You just know when a car is a supercar! There shouldnt be a definition.

As shown in Top Gear the schoolboy fave supercar by a huge way was the Lamborghini Countach 5000S. And i would agree, the most sensational supercar ever. And its figures are not to different from a ZX TT. The Veyron does not excite me really. It is not raw like say the McLaren F1 is. If the Veyron wants real kudos points then stick it in the Le Mans 24 hours and see if it lasts more than 50 laps :tongue:

But I have the end of all queries.

 

A supercar is defined a supercar by the oppinion of a schoolboy.

And my car stops them dead in their tracks.

 

here endeth the lesson.

 

:bow: :bow: :bow: :duffer:

This is a very interesting debate..... :rolleyes: :tongue:

 

Seriously though, I think I made my views clear in an earlier post.

 

However I would like to add one thing - we are all pretty much in agreement that most Ferraris, Lambos etc are true supercars. But when a mainstream manufacturer like Nissan or Toyota can develop a coupe with such sensational looks, cutting edge technology (for the time, before anyone starts :rolleyes: ) and the performance to make Italy's and Germany's finest get off their complacent arses and notice, especially at the price the 300zx and Supra were offered for; then that makes for a pretty special car too :bow:

 

As a petrol head I obviously have several books dedicated to the supercar, mostly bought for me as presents back in the early to mid 90's before I even thought about buying a 300zx.......

 

Titles include "Top Marques" "Dream Cars" and "The Fastest Cars From Around The World" to name but a few. There pages are graced by very expensive Italian and German exotica, however one car from a mainstream manufacturer makes it into all 3 aforementioned titles along with most of the others in my library. The 300ZX Z32 :bow:

 

Sure the Ford Cosworth makes it into 1 and the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton into another and the Honda NSX in 2 titles. But the ZX apears in several. This bears testament to the impact the 300ZX had on the motoring press at launch :)

 

Richard :dance:

Guys your arguing over what end of the same stick is better.

 

Ahn there are "supercars" or exotics that need a complete list of things changing every 1000 miles or so, so you argument as to a sup vs a Z maintenaces is off topic.

 

It is off topic, but I do a good job in talking about what defines a Supercar, and how the 300zx isnt, I recommend you have a read on those posts.

 

 

So if the main criteria of a car being called one by the media is achieved it is in fact a supercar.

 

 

WRONG. It is clear you skimmed past my posts and portions of my posts that focused on the supercar genre.

 

 

 

 

 

But I have the end of all queries.

 

A supercar is defined a supercar by the oppinion of a schoolboy.

And my car stops them dead in their tracks.

 

here endeth the lesson.

 

That is very retarded. I have heard kids rate Vauxhall Novas with big exhausts and bodykits as "ferrari killing" supercars, that doesn't re-define the genre and classic combination of design and engineering elements that MANUFACTURERS WHO BUILD REAL SUPERCARS always base their product around.

Lol the forum would not be complete without an Anh on board lol :bow: :tongue:

That is very retarded. I have heard kids rate Vauxhall Novas with big exhausts and bodykits as "ferrari killing" supercars, that doesn't re-define the genre and classic combination of design and engineering elements that MANUFACTURERS WHO BUILD REAL SUPERCARS always base their product around.

 

aghh but i doubt a nova or fiesta would beat a SUPERCAR point is your coming on to a board that breaths 300s,and many people on here have stuffed some serious exotica if you like to call it that

 

people that drive cars like novas etc who clain they have big power are known as chavs :smash:

It is off topic, but I do a good job in talking about what defines a Supercar, and how the 300zx isnt, I recommend you have a read on those posts.

 

 

you also do a very fine job of talking nothing but shite every time you appear, i remember your first post on this forum, and decided then you were going to be as interesting as crown paints chief paint drier watcher, i must admit i was wrong, your not AS interesting, why would we be interested in anything you say? you have never had a ZX, your never going to have one, so your posting on here because?????????

you also do a very fine job of talking nothing but shite every time you appear, i remember your first post on this forum, and decided then you were going to be as interesting as crown paints chief paint drier watcher, i must admit i was wrong, your not AS interesting, why would we be interested in anything you say? you have never had a ZX, your never going to have one, so your posting on here because?????????

 

I think you're just upset because someone here has the guts to not place the 300zx above everything else :eek: .

 

I rate the car very highly, thanks. Although going against the idea of the ZX being a supercar isn't trolling nor is should be offensive to people who like/own/driven the ZX, nor do I make the comparisons through ignorance. I have highlighted what makes a supercar, and who better to reference than the manufacturers and the actual supercars they actually built...

 

... far better source of information than what some journalistic chump with a driving license or what a schoolboy "thinks".