I know there was a few posts a little while back about some of you guys getting some new finger licking 18" and 19" alloys.

 

I am nearing the time when I need to consider now tyres and frankly, the stock alloys on mine have just about had it. They're rimmed, they leak and really dont look all the healthy. Although if I get possessed by JeffTT's spirit tomorrow, I might attack them with a toothbrush. (Sad I know but the things we do for our Z's)

 

Anyway, as I was saying. As the stocks are deceiving 16", I heard it on the grapevine that with 18" you tend to loose a lot of stability due to the regidity of the thin rubber and therefore overall handling is compromised. Can anyone comment whether 17"s behave in the same way.

 

Has anyone gone for the 18" rear 17" front combination? Does it make any difference?

Cos mate,

 

I don't agree whole heartedly with the bigger wheels and tyres gives less stability theory.

 

Pete at SE mentions in his catalogue that one of the best things you can do to improve the handling of the Z is fit bigger wheels.

 

To roughly quote what he says, manufacturers tend to scrimp on alloy wheels on performance cars as stock.

 

I would say that 18"ers are the way to go!

 

More rubber on the road means more traction and better grip. You don't see F1 cars driving around Monaco on BMX wheels and tyres do ya??? LOL

 

However, the stock Z wheel was designed with a significant purpose in mind...cooling the brakes!

 

All MHO and don't take anything I say as biblical in context as most of what I say...or 99.9 percent is crap! ROFL

 

Cos - what a load of bollox!!! Bigger tyres have more grip because they have more rubber on the road. This is because the curve on the outside of the tyre is less so there is more rubber touching the tarmac at any given time. Go wider and you get an even bigger improvement the bigger the wheel. Hope this makes some sense. Put 18s on mine and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

...also forgot to mention that with a smaller tyre wall you get less sideways movement of the tyre relative to the wheel, which can only make the car more responsive to changes in direction.

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Like the others, can't think of a good reason not to go big.

 

There are only two downsides which I've heard of (and they're outweighed IMHO by the positives) :

 

1) Wider tyres do tend to tramline a bit more if the road surface is susceptible to it. I did notice this when I got bigger tyres.

 

2) If you go too wide you can actually lose grip in the wet due to the car weight being spread over more tread and so each bit of tread not then being compressed as much, thereby not expelling water as efficiently.

 

On (2), although the theory is generally accepted (they apply it in F1!), I didn't actually notice it on my Z.

 

D

Guys

 

I completely agree that its better to have more rubber on the ground but what I was trying to say, which I didn't make a very good job of was....if you have a larger alloy, you are going to have to compensate by getting a thinner profile. Therefore, with todays roads being in the shitty state that they are, what I meant about rigidity was the virtical aspect of it.

 

TT, if I use your analogy if of the F1 car, yes it does have rediculously wide wheels but the wheel itself is rather small and the there is a large tyre wall.

 

Now as we know, this is down to there being virtually no suspension on a F1 car and that the tyre takes most of the movement...so using that as a base, what would be the effect of thinner profiled tyre being put on a F1. I'm guessing a firmer ride with more chance of tyre bounce - hence less stability.

 

Now putting that in Z context, yes the wider tyre would be a benefit but would the thinner wall not be affected by todays shit uneven and bumby roads or have I got it wrong again?

Yep, I agree with you matey, but apply the theory elsewhere then. More close to home, Touring Car? Big fuck off wheels with mega low profile tyres for maximum grip and traction again.

 

Get the car lower and with better suspenders and it all comes into desired effect.

 

Rally cars are a different story, depending largely on the suface the cars are faced with.

 

Generally, big is best!

 

Ask the Macca and Johnny with their Strosek wide arched beasts...Nuff said!

 

P.S. you don't see Ferarri and Lambo putting shitty little 16"ers on their cars???

 

Ok OK You WIN!!

 

Bigger wheels it is!!!

Job done! You guys can pay up at the next meet ROFLMFAO

 

Seriously mate, bigger is the way to go!

 

Match the suspension set up to the wheels or you could be wasting your money!

Wider rubber increses grip (in dry conditions), but can upset the handling feel and balance of a car.

People who have the chassis upgraded at the same time as the larger wheels, may be feeling the benefit of new shocks/springs rather than the larger wheels.

IMHO the larger sized wheels may look good, but are not always ideal on the UKs indifferent road surfaces.

Some magazine road testers often remark when testing BMWs/TVRs etc.,that the standard suspension/wheel setup is preferable to the larger wheel/stiffer chassis combination, in normal driving. i.e not on a track.

 

Well, thank you all for your input.

 

I didn't realize that I would get such a thorough spanking tonight but its been fun.

 

I have now seen the light, am walking the path, sliding down the slope and feeling my way to a set of nice 18"ers.

 

Whats the correct wheel size for them babies?

 

Ah Ha!!!

But remember wider wheels = more drag and therefore less speed.

If you notice the cars that go for the top speed records on the salt flats use very thin alluminium disks for wheels.

You can test this theory by fitting 4 of the space saver spare tyres to your Z then going for a top end run down the motorway. I guarantee you will go faster

Paul

Dont forget, rally cars bla bla touring cars etc etc, tend to have big fucker wheels, so that they can have big fucker brakes, otherwise im pretty sure that they would possibly downsize the wheels a bit - ford tarmac use 18 inch wheels with 380mm discs and 6-piston Alcons - big calipers and big discs..gravel only 300mm discs and 4 piston calipers, not so big...and they also use 16inch wheels for gravel.

Lambos yadda yadda etc etc stylee cars have big wheels cos they look good - but they also have big fucker brakes too...but have to look fancy, but look at competition alloys up close and they look sooo shitly finished (I have no idea what the point im trying to make about the finish of the alloys, but just thought i'd say anyway)

Anyhoo, bigger wheels dont look daft on a zx so get em, they look daft on a reno 5 so dont get em if you have one of them...hehe, get some Big fuck off brakes too - I can get hold of some PROPER 6 Pot AP RACING Dished Titanium Piston Calipers....Only £1700 model number AP5066-500, custom made limited run by AP Racing. Then you'll just have to get someone to make the bells and brackets for you, and get some discs and pads

Happy Shopping

See ya

Originally posted by andyduff:

Cos - what a load of bollox!!! Bigger tyres have more grip because they have more rubber on the road. This is because the curve on the outside of the tyre is less so there is more rubber touching the tarmac at any given time. Go wider and you get an even bigger improvement the bigger the wheel. Hope this makes some sense. Put 18s on mine and WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!!

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

 

Yes I got to agree with the Duffman on this I went from stock to 18s and what a DIFFERENCE it makes.

 

 

------------------

Cos,

Getting back to your original point, the lower profile does have a disadvantage and that is a greater likelihood of damage to wheels in potholes. Ask the newly appeared Steve E about that one ...

 

Re Ay's rally car post, I think another factor at least as great is that race cars want to reduce their unsprung weight as much as possible as this allows the greatest level of tuning in the suspension. If you've got Newton's laws playing with the wheels & brakes because they weight a ton, then it's much more difficult to make the suspension so what you want.

 

This does lead back to the F1 / relatively high profile comment. I've also noticed that the profile looks high in F1 but I'm sure this isn't a choice thing by the teams - surely it's a rule. Otherwise, they'd go for really low profile to give less deformity and then build more travel into the suspension which then can tune.

 

Or perhaps they LOOK high profile because they're so wide and in fact they're like a 485/20ZR16 (or whatever - no idea what the real size is !). But IF I was right then the profile would be about 10 cm and would look very high even though it's actually low.

 

Dave

Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons here for you guyZ. It is known that a larger tyre has less rolling resistance. If you kept the standard width wheel but went up in diameter, then in theory you'd get better fuel consumption due to less drag Think about that one then

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

You get better fuel consumption with bigger tyres because it fucks up the gearing and your speed calibration.

 

Less wheel revs per mile.

 

You do get a better top sped but how often do you get to over 170 anyway?

Quicker accelleration is far more use in the UK.

 

Have look at this link Ajay posted. http://www.autospeed.com/A_0996/page1.html

 

 

Hi Cos,i am sure your in Derby arnt you,if you want a ride in a Z on 18s to compare ring me and we will arrange something for tomorow.Chas 07974543480.

Originally posted by Jezz_S13:

 

You do get a better top sped but how often do you get to over 170 anyway?

Quicker accelleration is far more use in the UK.

 

Have look at this link Ajay posted. http://www.autospeed.com/A_0996/page1.html

 

Na Jezz! that is the thing with these babys the top end,Piss all over S13s S14s Scoobys etc,I would not sacrifice the top end for anything 176mph and not flat out yet !

 

 

 

------------------

Ohhhhhhhh yeah Macca! Bring it on big guy! LOL

 

I agree, top end? Huh??? Well get the chip and it's...

 

BMW 740i: "Fuck how come he's still pulling away at 140???"

 

I rest my case! My car is still stock bar SE chip! See ya! LMFAO

 

Still got Blitz zorst, intake, ASP pulley, Stillen brakes, Scroll rage(20 bhp guaranteed...LOL) to go on yet etc. etc.

 

LOVE IT BABY!

 

Some may say...

 

"Oh but autos are slower than manuals..."

 

Fuck that right off! We'll have the same convo while I'm tucking into my Little Chef All Day Breakfast 10 junctions down the motorway and ordering extra coffee then shall we? Just as sad loser turns up with clutch burning like a crucifix at a Klan meeting! ROFLMFAO

 

Timmy you nutter LMFAO! extra coffee please,that Scooby should be passing the window in about 20min LOL!

 

------------------

At least the Scooby driver will still have a driving license!

Seriously though, Subarus are aimed at a competely different market than the Zed was.300ZXs are GT cars for high speed acceleration and cruising...Scoobies are rally orientated sports saloons for the twisty stuff, with good acceleration at lower speeds.They aren't geared for high speeds over 150mph!

You're better off comparing with high performance GTs such as tuned Supras or even AMG Mercs and turbo Porsches.

Visit the German autobahnen and your car wont seem quite so fast anymore!

I've driven on the following combinations.

-Stock sized Toyo T1+s w stock suspension

[car felt like it was on tippy toes and didn't inspire confidence]

-Stock Alloys w 245 Toyo RA1s (road legal race tyres)

[fuck off turn in, straightline traction on par w 17in T1S's, wet performance sus, whines like nothing on earth, NEED SUSPENSION TO MATCH]

-16x8.5 (I think) w 245 Toyo RA1s

[drove these on a road circuit.. once warmed up - OH YEAH BABY, huge monster lateral grip...braking to die for, if I could I'd have these permanently for my track tyres, on road prefer 17in w T1S's for wet performance and noise reasons NEED SUSPENSION TO MATCH]

-Stock size w Eagle GS/Ds

[fuck all grip, had fun sledging the car but that was it.. would've hated to had to have stopped in a hurry]

 

My Daily driver tyre history

Car was stock

-17" w 245fr255rr Bridgestone G-Grid IIs

[pooed my pants at 65mph on a wet motorway, no traction in 1st thru 5th]

Car went to stage III

-17" w 235fr255rr Yokohama AVS S1Z's

[bought these after a new pair of undies from above experience, still no straightline traction in the wet but at leasy it didn't let go every 5 secs! nice progressive response.. still at 110 sideways down a motorway........]

Suspension upgrades and more power

-17" w 235fr265rr Toyo T1S's

[cheaper and these suckers STICK TO THE ROAD!.. very very good price performance ratio, wet traction/response is unbelievable, very very progressive tyre. The new stiff sidewall batch just released work a lot better than the old ones]

 

 

One thing about going to bigger rubber that you guys haven't mentioned is feeling on the limit, low profile large rubber has less tendency to "give".. thus driver has less "feeling" of whats going on and when on the higher limit of big 18in wide rubber has less time to react when it starts going pear shaped and because they're going faster it compounds the problem... kabam..crunch.

 

I tend to think 17'ers give a good compromise between size, traction, lateral grip and avaliable tyre range.

 

You've got to be real careful about what sizes you get, I've got 17x10's on the rear and they're a real bitch to get big wide (265/40/17 - 275/40/17) rubber in - but that might be cause I live on a pissant small island in the south pacific!

 

And tyres are the single biggest factor. Hopefully with my little list I've put up I've demonstrated that 17in tyre A does not always match 17in on tyre B...

 

 

Rowan

 

 

Originally posted by Banzai:

At least the Scooby driver will still have a driving license!

Seriously though, Subarus are aimed at a competely different market than the Zed was.300ZXs are GT cars for high speed acceleration and cruising...Scoobies are rally orientated sports saloons for the twisty stuff, with good acceleration at lower speeds.They aren't geared for high speeds over 150mph!

You're better off comparing with high performance GTs such as tuned Supras or even AMG Mercs and turbo Porsches.

Visit the German autobahnen and your car wont seem quite so fast anymore!

Mr Banzai I am aware of the difference between the cars,I was saying the top end of a tuned Z ROCKS If I had any interest in German cars,make no mistake I would have one !

 

 

 

------------------

Originally posted by paulg:

Ah Ha!!!

But remember wider wheels = more drag and therefore less speed.

If you notice the cars that go for the top speed records on the salt flats use very thin alluminium disks for wheels.

You can test this theory by fitting 4 of the space saver spare tyres to your Z then going for a top end run down the motorway. I guarantee you will go faster

Paul

 

 

But take twice as long to stop.

 

lol