As a follower of this club with very special intrest as i have done a lot of work with nissan in the past, i had a special observation role on your dyno day, all the peak reading are absolutly 100s, for the auto's torque figures are only valid at 5000 rpm and above, exelent turnout , exelent figures even for those who think they did'nt think they done so well, all 210+ BHP GOOD. If you don't believe retest and post results, auto's were weak.

I researve my judgment in this one

it was proof in the pudding though?

Gnnnnnrrrrrgggghhhhh!

Banzai your sadder than porker you know that.

Oh and i do knwo who you are, which makes it even sader m8t.

When I get my boost controller fitted correctly and can run at comparable boosts to Craigs manual (since our other mods are very similar), then I'll prove you're both talking crap!

 

Andy

Originally posted by Andrew:

When I get my boost controller fitted correctly and can run at comparable boosts to Craigs manual (since our other mods are very similar), then I'll prove you're both talking crap!

 

Andy

 

What did you run Andy, and what is your spec?

 

Grant

 

 

Originally posted by 300z:

Banzai your sadder than porker you know that.

Oh and i do knwo who you are, which makes it even sader m8t.

 

OK...Who am I?

 

Am I being stupid?

 

I have read this thread several times and I'm afraid I haven't got a clue what it's on about

 

Can someone please explain.

 

ta

 

[This message has been edited by TT Tim (edited 01-12-2001).]

some arsehole callign himself BANZAI (How original)

Clearly a member of the forum that was slightly upset at something i said, yet doesent have the bottle to use his real alias (another great cowardly act)

 

Im assuming the little angry faces means your tough or something.

Whats the point of comming on as somebody eles and name calling,god i thaught we all stopped doing that when we left school.

Originally posted by Grant:

What did you run Andy, and what is your spec?

 

Grant

 

 

I've got an HKS intake and Scorpion exhaust (and a JWT chip). Thats it for my mods. Craig has a similarly good exhaust and intake. His is manual, mine is auto. I realise its pointless comparing my car to Warrens as its in a different league but Craig's car is the closest to mine in mods that I know. At .6 bar I ran 225bhp, at .72 I ran 244bhp (AFAICR). These values are with an incorrectly fitted boost controller. Craig ran 26xbhp at .8 and 28xbhp at .9. I realise you can't simply take the difference between .6 and .7 and then add that difference to .7 to get .8 but as you can see, I dont think there will be that much of a significant diffference between the two transmissions. This is especially impressive since the autos have more drivetrain loss and are meant to have 20bhp less than the manuals anyway. I will post my results as soon as I get back on the dyno. Getting the BC fitted correctly on Monday. I think the whole idea that the autos were much lower down on power than the manuals came from the fact that there were far more modded manuals at the RR day than autos. Anyway, I will be posting all my results when I can get the car going well and will do runs at .8 and .9bar so that decent comparisons can be made. Even if the car is down a few bhp, the power and torque comes on significantly earlier in the autos.

 

Cheers,

Andy

but andy craigs car does not have an ECU.

so you cant really compare can you ?

Lets all twat each other at the next meet shall we??? thats the way its going!!! Play GT3 or something

 

Banzai - you are a complete cunt - I bet you don't come to the next meet and say who you are

 

CheerZ,

 

Andy

Yup, youre right Warren, he doesn't have an ECU (well, not an aftermarket one anyway!).

 

But how much does an ECU add in terms of power? And if the JWT chip is based so closely on the stock unit, it can't really add that much can it? Doesn't it just provide the fueling maps for higher boosts? I wouldn't think a chip alone is gonna give more than a couple of bhp difference (if that) when running at normal boosts (well, the JWT one anyway which is just a modified stock ecu). Could be wrong, but I doubt it Anyone done any dyno figures before and after fitting a JWT ecu but running the same boost levels?

 

Andy

OK, so the power curve may show more hp on the manual than the auto. What we need is a stock manual to compare to a stock auto. Then we can see the difference. All mods aside stock v stock otherwise theres too many variables to make it a worthwhile test. Just for the record my auto is totally stock. Not had a rolling road job done yet, but know a good one in Widnes that costs less than £30 but he doesnt tune anything on it, just gives it 3 runs. I wont be having it done before xmas but maybe just after. So when I've done it I'll post the graph as a benchmark for Stock Jap Auto.

 

Oh yeah, and I asked him about auto's and he said no problem, the dyno can be setup to run autos, so it shouldnt get screwed up on the reading.

Andy mate,

 

The ECU is the daddy mod mate to be honest!

 

It does need the zorst and intake to make it play the best tune but they are good for large bhp increase.

 

Why do you think WaZZas car is so satanic? Mines mate!

 

Ask me mate, AndyP, JWT is good but the SE chip cained it by about 30-50 bhp or so!

 

Don't be fooled, the chip is what provides the biggest bhp increase before sorting out turbos etc. No doubt about it!

Timski I second that mate 100%.

 

------------------

Well the good old ECU thing always gets things going, even better than auto v manual

 

But enough of this twaddle here are some facts (in my humble opinion of course )

 

Boost (and the correct fueling) are what makes your power. Not the chip alone, that is to allow you to increase boost. There is NO WAY swapping a jwt ecu with a SE one will give a 30+ horsepower increase with the same boost pressure. SE claim that there chip is mappable for your individual mods, but so what? who is gonna map it? People like Mines and JWT race these things and build some of the fastest Zeds in the world using the latest dyno, track and data logging facillitys. I dont think a bloke in a factory unit in Essex can compete with that by fiddling about with the code on your chip. Ecu programming is a serious science above the head of anyone here its not just a case of fiddling around with the settings.

Also take a look at 600+.com and see the cars running JWT on there, not to mention that the fastest car (probably) on here runs a mines chip.

IMHO BOLLOCKS!

no 1 you don't know the capability of the guy in Essex.

no 2 Andyp has proof of this.

no 3 the guy with the mines ecu PROBABLY has the fastest Z on here.LMFFFAO!

 

------------------

The red is JWT, the blue is the SE chip.

 

 

The JWT, in this case, is a compromise. What SE have done is optimise the timimg and fueling for UK fuel etc. I don't doubt that JWT could improve upon this if they did it on a rolling road for a specific car, but they would probably loose some of their legendary reliability. However, this SE chip was not custom designed for my car,it was one I just borrowed from Tim. I know that the first one SE created for Dave Hairs' car was pushing out 432bhp (I presume that MUST be at the flywheel). Mine was a lowly 312bhp at the wheels.

Andy mate that was so good LMFFFFFFAO! I rest my case .

 

------------------

Yeah but why would JWT loose soem of there legindery reliablility and SE not?

Can you elaberate on how you make this claim.

Anyone can up the boost for a run. Really not that hard to do.

 

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by 300z (edited 03-12-2001).]

Like I said the JWT is a safe compromise. It overfuels significantly, so much that the guy running the dyno commented on it. Tidy that up using a combination of timing and fueling and you have instant power gain. No change of boost required.

ROFLMFAO BIG TIME

 

You just can't accept that an SE product produces serious HP?

 

Look, Andy didn't fuck about with his boost as he's running with a boost jet install in his IC lines...unlike some with fancey Blitz gear etc.

 

This is making my fucking year this!!!

 

I tell you this without even being on a Dyno, which incidentally is the 1st thing I'm going to do once all my bolt on shite is on!

 

FACT NO 1:-

 

Evidence is before you, JWT chip in my car after having the SE chip was arse! It felt sluggish and throttle response was cackish.

 

Pete is not just a dodgey outfit in Essex, he's had years and years of experience with Nissan cars and does know what he's doing.

 

I don't dispute the bolt on = go faster theory at all! Not that naive, but what I have learned is that a Dyno and someone who knows what tuning really means will get the best outta yer motor!

 

Soon as mine gets everything fitted I'm more than likely going to get SE to dyno and tune it properly. Ask Hairy(Dave Hairs) about setting up properly...not all about zorst on, intake on, ECU in and hey....my car should be putting out monsterous BHP! Bollox!

 

Warren, you should know this seeing as you setup the day...what do these guys who run the dyno spend 99.9 percent of their time doing? Tuning rally cars? On what? The Dyno basically!

 

Warren, your car was detonating wasn't it? Mines might be the quickest car on this forum but I'd rather have a safe 400ish BHP than another blown engine! Already been there as has you my friend!

 

 

Nuff said

 

All IMHO as usual, Paul you sound like a top bloke and don't take any of this as a dig at you fella...I love all Z peeps

 

Just sick to death of people slagging off one company in particular!

he he timmy i aint denying it, i knwo loads of guys that have eaned out JWT chips and found lots of horspower.

 

But you guys have a very serious contradiction going on there at the moment.

ANDYP Car mad 314 with se chip exhaust and intake (i presume)

Yet Grants car made 365 without se chip and as he claimed at the dyno day, just an intake and an exhaust.

 

So clearly iether grant is lying his arse of.

or the se chip just aint doing the buisness

I have to say i dont think grant would lie.

Reading this, if you look at everyone's facts there is very little being said that is incorrect. JWT is a conservative chip but does the job. SE is less so and inevitably will have slightly less safety - but if they've done the job right then the safety should still be acceptable.

 

Three points to add though :

 

1) Swapping one chip to another doesn't actually guarantee that one tuner is better than another - just that one chip is more suited to the rest of that car's setup than the other one. If you had exactly the right mods to suit it then the JWT would produce more - it's just a bit more of a case of luck

 

2) Warren's MINEs ECU was fitted before some of his mods I believe. Therefore, to optimise it (and remove the detonation) it would need a re-programme. That's life - it doesn't actually make MINEs bad.

 

3) It is a myth that programming ECUs takes super-scientist skills. It is specialised but so was tuning cars before ECU days. In many ways, setting up carbs (particularly multi choke, multi carb setups) is more specialised. You just need the right knowledge and tools. What IS true, is that us Joe Average's don't have the gear for ECU tuning but we DID have screwdrivers to play with our carbs. This, in my case, led to many knackered carb setups !

 

Dave

Whilst us bodgers may not have the tools it is actualy easier to tune cars through the chip now. Due to the way the maps are written, as long as you know what you are doing, you can add a degree of ignition within a certain rev range or cut the fuel, or increase it a little etc. Before, as Dave mentoined it was a twiddle with the screwdriver or the air jets in the hope of changing the bit you wanted and not messing up the rest too badly.

 

Grants car obviously show more power at the wheels than mine, to start with it's a manual so there's less lost there, our intakes are identical and the exhausts are similar, however I believe that he just has a 'good one'. I've talked to Pete about this in the past and he tells me of cars that make far more than the standard power without any mods whatsoever - it happens. Unfortunately most of us only seem to see the 'Friday afternoon' models !

 

Now that I intend to make no further mods to my car (except perhaps a manual conversion -ahem ), what I am planning to do next year is to get a chip modified specifcially to suit my car, that should see gains in both power and economy. Anyway, the actual numbers are fairly unimportant (to me), it's the driveability that counts.

 

And Tim, get a dyno run before you make any mods ! You need to have a starting point.